Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos

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 Wasn't going to do this... but...

Be careful what you wish for.
With my "1 year" about a week and a half away, I was curious about what you think?

Jedi Master (out of time)Caltin Vanagor?

Devil pilot turned Naval Commander - Commodore Liram Angellus?

Omega Squad?


Anything about them I could better explain? Anything you wouldn't mind me expanding on? Is the big guy truly Lovable, but a bit much sometimes" like Jacen Nimdok Jacen Nimdok believes? :)p )
 
You're a good writer. No doubt. Very descriptive, good flow. The problem I have seen with you, in my dealings and in others mentioning, is the swagger and cocksure attitude reflected in Caltin and other bits, tend to carry over to an OOC attitude with your writing partners and how you address them. That may be in the minority for most. But I know I used to be similar, with it growing over time because no one really mentioned it, and it caused me any number of issues back in the day. That's my only real critique. Everything else is pretty spot on and tight.
 
Your writing is very good, and I'm not sure what others are speaking of, because I have personally never experienced any 'attitude' from you. Caltin's personality shows up very strong.

One critique I might offer is that, IMHO, you do not nearly play up the whole "Man out of Time" aspect with Caltin as much as you should.

If you think about it, Caltin is essentially Jedi Buck Rogers /Samurai Jack. Where's the massive Future Shock? The confusion? The incomprehension at all the strange, dangerous technology and creatures and all the ways the Jedi changed. I personally get the impression when Caltin goes all Teth Adam, its actually his inner frustration at being stuck in an unfamiliar future where being the Big Guy is no longer the simple affair it used to be, and the ultimate loneliness of being a Jedi Museum Piece boiling over temporarily, but I have found Caltin to not be so aware of this possibility as to when or after he's manifesting insanely powerful lightning, and I think it could really do the character some good if you delved into much more of the Psychological aspects of being so alone in the future, beyond trying to guide new generations of Jedi.

That said, what you do write is quite excellent still and it's always a pleasure to read one of your posts, Caltin Vanagor Caltin Vanagor
 
You've definitely become well known and quite quickly. You're a very popular presence on the site. I personally was very happy to see you show up on the boards and reflect what imo is a more conservative Jedi presentation. I have not read many character portrayals, please don't everyone hate me, but some of my personal interactions ic were just not how I imagined Jedi, and yet every one ought not be! I feel you reflect what is possibly the aspects of Jedi that I admire, being among an older generation as a fan of the original trilogy, -a reflection which comes across to me as those which maybe some of the younger writers do not fathom to emulate. It roots into your sharing his emotions as he makes decisions about his choices. Some characters teter on Light and Darkness, destined to never truly walk the Jedi path. Personally Gray Jedi to me is an oxymoron, but that is my personal take. Some truly take up the mantel of Jedi. When I read Caltin Vanagor Caltin Vanagor I feel like I am reading about as canon a Jedi as I prefer them to be, and I enjoy that very much.
 
Jedi Maverick
Codex Judge
Ah yes Jax's great, great, great, great Grandfather. I think..... XD But on a serious note your writing has been nothing short of excellent. Especially your action scenes, they're some of the best I've seen on this site. You've done a great job portraying Caltin as serious but can have a softer side and even a funny one too based on his cookbook lol.

I DEFINITELY need to RP with Liram, I just never got a chance to do so. Keep up the great work! :)
 
if they're watching anyways
ok im here to be mean bc everyone else has been so positive and ofc i can't stand that

Disclaimer speedrun: I'm pretty terrible at reading people's posts who I'm not writing with directly. We haven't really written together outside of those big Jedi gathering threads (which, admittedly, felt much more like ten people writing dialogue walls with themselves, and I feel bad that I was one of them) so I have not read much of your stuff. Of course, you've pretty quickly eclipsed my post count in your one year of being here, so it's pretty insane that I don't read your stuff more considering how much you write.

However, I've tried to take a look at your most recent writing with Caltin (aka everything in your recent content tab because I can't stand clicking more buttons than necessary). Specifically I looked at
Revenge of the Club III (but only like the 5th page when he's hanging out with Jane, you posted like 13 times dont make me do that), your most recent post in the Jedha Invasion, your stuff in Shrouded in Darkness, your post in the Wayland Populate, and finally in The Future in Motion. Again, I kind of suck at reading other people's stuff, but I tried to skim over what your partners were writing at the very least to see how well you were responding to things.

ok lesgo

random mean things:
hate ur div but i couldn't tell you why it's just personal preference
i also think that using divs constantly, like in private threads or smaller side stories (PARTICULARLY a div like urs with the quote and the pics and dividers and equipment and everything) just gets goofy after a while
u need a graphic designer or photo editor or SOMETHING just seeing normal rock "the dwayne" johnson annoys me spice him up a bit
irl or pseudo fourth-wall-breaks bother the shit out of me, particularly any pop culture references, even if it's quoting someone cool at the start of your post (i bullied Jacen Nimdok Jacen Nimdok about this)
i constantly find it hilarious when characters are referred to as 'big guy' in a galaxy filled with aliens whose average height is like ten feet and have muscles as thick as Auteme's entire body (XENO REPRESENTATION)
adverbs? cringe

Okay actual content. We'll start with raw technical stuff, plus bonus challenges if you're really looking to improve.

The thing that struck me immediately was your reliance (and often, misuse) of commas in your writing. Let's look at an example from your invasion post:

Ren could continue his ritual all that he wanted, but those crystals that he had corrupted would never be of use to him, or unfortunately the Jedi. They were in effect, inert. There were more throughout the caves that were still being corrupted, but they could be saved. Those were what he was fighting for. Those were the “lives” that he would save, even if it cost him his own. Ren, the Sith, they would not receive their prize, Structures could be rebuilt, lives, crystals, they could not.

What effects of the Repulse that did not end the crystals suffering attacked the source. This would not do any serious damage to Ren, he was too powerful for this. What it would do, if everything worked the way that Caltin had hoped, would send Ren flying, knock him back and cause his focus to drop. Effectively ending the ritual.

Rituals suck.

Reading this felt like there was a lot of, stopping, and starting, because of all the commas. Your short sentences suffer just as much as your long ones; the former of which there should be more of, because the latter often feel like they're just shorter sentences strung together unnecessarily. Unfortunately, there are also many instances where you're missing commas. Focusing in a bit:
What effects of the Repulse that did not end the crystals suffering attacked the source. This would not do any serious damage to Ren, he was too powerful for this. What it would do, if everything worked the way Caltin had hoped, would send Ren flying, knock him back and cause his focus to drop. Effectively ending the ritual.

The last sentence seems cut off from the rest, despite it being pretty intertwined with the previous clause. I also feel like the interruption in the middle of your third sentence -- "if everything worked the way Caltin had hoped" -- cuts into the flow of the sentence (also, I think the "Caltin had hoped" is weird, like the tense doesn't quite fit the rest). I understand the need to be clear you're not calling hits, but if you're not careful it can make it seem a bit awkward. The first sentence seems a bit stilted -- it's not immediately clear what "the source" is, and even then the relation between the subject, object, and verb are a bit weird.

Here's a rewrite I think is a bit more clear:

The Repulse struck not only the suffering crystals, but the cause of their suffering as well. Ren was strong enough not to be injured by Caltin's attack, but he hoped to knock Ren back and disrupt his concentration on the ritual, effectively ending it.
(if you haven't noticed I also suck at writing)

I think this version flows a bit better. I probably changed too much for it to be directly comparable in terms of "I fixed the commas", but there are fewer commas, even if I added one to the first sentence to try to salvage it.

In order to continue the glorious combat against commas, there are a number of options at your disposal; first is the semicolon. It took me pretty long to figure out how to use it properly, but once you figure it out it's indispensable. On the other hand, there's the period. For me it was mostly a matter of feeling things out; when I was first getting over my comma overdosing I tended to focus in on if I could replace a comma with a period. This produced a lot of stilted sentences. Still, trimming down a sentence to remove the need for a comma is never not satisfying. Third, there's the em dash -- it's something I love, and it's super useful for mid-sentence topic switches or asides. It shouldn't be confused with interruption dashes- they're basically half an em dash, but are just as effective- which can be used to illustrate the suddenness or intrusiveness of a thought or action.

What I'm getting at is there are a lot of options to help punctuate your sentences that aren't commas. I farted around forever figuring out how to use semicolons and all that, and even now I'm always second-guessing myself. I'm definitely getting better -- but it becomes difficult to innovate in your writing if you aren't using the vast library of punctuation marks. Throughout reading your stuff I didn't see a single semicolon or em dash or dash. Try them out, they're there for a reason -- but don't completely cut yourself off from commas, either. If I had to guess, only around 10-20% of Game of Thrones's sentences have no commas, not counting dialogue, and them's some good books. As much as I despise them, they are a necessary evil.

Alright, next. (Wow, this is already so long.)

Now, you're a good reader (I assume) so I'm sure it's been nagging at you ever since I gave you that quote earlier -- "There's a typo in that quote! You missed a period before that last sentence in the first paragraph! I've found you out, now all of your work ever is utterly destroyed and meaningless! You absolute buffoon, what a titanic blunder!" (Okay, probably embellishing your reaction a little bit.)

Second point, and the one that will instantly make you better: EDIT YOUR WORK.

Full disclosure, I'm atrocious at this. Everything above is first draft; it's only made worse knowing I've definitely misused some poor semicolon somewhere. Still, I'm pretty obsessed with getting things right on the first try, which is why there are never tpyos in my work.

I don't think this is a post-breaking problem on its own -- your meanings come through pretty clear, even if there is a misspelling or some misplaced punctuation. But there's something inherently jarring about seeing a typo; it's like some monkey neuron activation that makes you stop reading and think, "that's a typo right there". I'm not sure if that happens to everyone, or just me, but either way I think giving your own work a quick skim before you post is good practice, even if it's as lfawless as mine is.

Basically every writer will tell you how important editing is. It's not just important to check for typos, but also to check how well your sentences flow, and if there's anything unnecessary in your posts. For a really long time I was obsessed with having a minimum post length, or to make sure I was matching or surpassing the number of words my partner was putting up, and that led to a lot of superfluous, unnecessary, extra, embellishing descriptions and numerous repeated sentences. It was like I was trying to hit an essay word count, and that's no way to write fiction.

I generally found that your post length was always appropriate, but sometimes I felt like you were repeating things. Back to your invasion post:

Ren could continue his ritual all that he wanted, but those crystals that he had corrupted would never be of use to him, or unfortunately the Jedi. They were in effect, inert. There were more throughout the caves that were still being corrupted, but they could be saved. Those were what he was fighting for. Those were the "lives" that he would save, even if it cost him his own. Ren, the Sith, they would not receive their prize, Structures could be rebuilt, lives, crystals, they could not.

Let's cut some stuff:
Ren could continue his ritual, but those crystals he had corrupted would never be of use. There were more still being corrupted, but they could be saved. Those were what he was fighting for. Ren would not receive his prize.

Had to change "their" to "his" for that sweet sweet clarity. Alternatively, a rewrite:
The crystals Ren had corrupted would never shine again, but it was the crystals yet to be touched by his ritual that Caltin was concerned about. They were the 'lives' he would save, no matter the cost; Jedha's Temple could be rebuilt, but kyber was irreplaceable.

To be clear, I don't think the original post is bad or difficult to understand, but trimming things can make your posts significantly better. As with basically anything, going back and reviewing your work, then seeing how you can make it better is the best way to improve. Pro athletes watch the tapes, gamers do VOD reviews, and writers edit their work.

Alright -- once you've annihilated the tyrannical rule of the comma and reviewed your work, I've got a challenge for you, that was given to me previously by the eminent Jend-Ro Quill :

Try removing the word "was" from your vocabulary, and see where it takes you. I found it very difficult but also a lot of fun; plus, it forces you to rework random sentences you thought would be easy, keeping you on your toes and reminding you to review your work.

Next is the character stuff, and we're gonna need another disclaimer here. I don't know Caltin's full story, and even though I tried to read into your most recent stuff, I know that doesn't give the full picture of the character. Even then, I don't doubt that there are themes or smaller things that I miss that might really open up the character for me. If you think I'm wrong about anything here, ignore it. It's your character. I can't know everything about him, and I certainly can't write him.

First thing feels like a bit of an old criticism, but I think there's still some juice in it. As I mentioned earlier, the first time I read your stuff was in the Jedi gathering/debate threads, and the first thing I noticed about Caltin was that he was written like he was important. I initially found that annoying, but that was definitely a dumb reaction; people should be able to write their characters as important. Most people write main characters, and that definitely includes how I treat Auteme most of the time. Caltin's a big Jedi Master who was searching for some control in a new time period; he can be forgiven for thinking these young Jedi can be a bit silly.

It was that kind of experience that told me Caltin had a bit of an ego. The way you treat him in your writing tells me that he's important, and that tends also to mean that he thinks he is important. Still, that didn't really jive with my reading of your Revenge of the Club story with Jane -- he seemed almost goofy, awkward, humble in his interactions with her. But even in the middle of that, there's his dead wife telling him he should smooch someone else. Weird, but definitely main character sort of stuff. In your first post in the Shrouded in Darkness dom, you've got stuff like this:

He had no other information other than the general talk of "undead" attacking journalists. That is all he really needed to respond and while Caltin didn't want to do this, those that were down there were not experienced enough without help. There was something sinister and as always it seemed to draw him into the middle of it.

He considers others incapable of/not experienced enough to take on this threat, and is willing to jump in with basically no information, confident enough to take it on. Contrast that with the first flaw in his bio being "Humble and Rather Shy".

Now, these traits have some conflict, but it's possible to reconcile them. Caltin's a pretty balanced guy by my reading -- I just think that you need to acknowledge that you're writing him as a strong, confident dude who's willing to speak up among people he doesn't know or take on challenges others can't. Once you've established that, you can subvert it by showing the ways in which he's weak or lacks confidence.

Second point is kind of... nebulous, and I think it's more personal reading than anything else. When I read Caltin, sometimes I just feel like he's not a person. Like in Revenge of the Club:

I am having a great time with you. I want you to know that.

Dipping her again and lifting her back up he pulled her close as they continued with this oddly apropos slow song.

I still have my late wife's voice in my mind is all. Just don't want you to have the wrong impression.

This sounds like something a crazy person would say. Seriously, you're in her DMs and you start talking about your wife? I don't care how long she's been dead, that's still weird.

Jokes aside, I don't necessarily think a character must be a person in the traditional sense. Lots of people come here to write crazy weird aliens or insane power fantasies (I mean, we're all here to do that tbh). Still, as cool as hyper-chad Jedi roaming the galaxy are, I do think you're trying to write a real (or at least, realistic) person here. Caltin definitely has baggage and flaws, and the quote above might be Caltin just trying to be up front about what he's feeling, which is cool. But I feel like you might be falling into the trap of needing every line to be quotable or epic, or like you're making Caltin talk to the other writer rather than the other character.

Like:

Be ready for a quick extraction. I may need it.

I'll get their attention. You just make sure to take down those who come after me.
I've learned a long time ago to "Hope for the best, and plan for the worst." So, "yes", I do indeed believe that we are walking headfirst into a trap.
Finally, Caltin looked up. You have no idea the level of mistake that you made.
"My army is invincible already, Jedi. You cannot kill what is already dead."

Snap-hiss

Watch me.

All from the same thread, btw.

And that doesn't even mention the quotes you begin your posts with, or all the sick one-liners that he doesn't say -- the kind of stuff you often use to close out your posts. Even in your invasion post it seemed like you had an intense need for something punchy to end it with, but:

Rituals suck.

They can't all be gems.

I understand this need, I do -- and you don't do it with every post, it's not irreparable. But I see you stretching things, even in little stuff like "Rituals suck", to try to give this air of grandeur.

Kind of like the thing with humbleness/ego, I don't think this utterly breaks your posts or anything, I just feel like it's something you should keep an eye on. Maybe that is how Caltin feels, how he might describe his inner monologue -- if that's the case, play it up. Then, when things get serious, you can have him genuinely humbled, or at a loss for words. Or maybe it's a front, intimidating calmness to his enemies and inspiring confidence to his allies. Who wouldn't want to fight alongside an action hero worthy of a whole holoflick series? No matter the case, find his strengths, his weaknesses, and subvert them both. (Look at that -- I wanted to end my paragraph on something cool. Ignore that advice, it's weird.)

ok criticism done time for positive things because i lied i dont actually hate positivity

These are like, the most generic Chaos writer criticisms I can think of. Whack commas? Check. Needs to be skimmed over before posting? Check. A bit of ego and humbleness? Check. Cool one-liner syndrome? Check. I know I kind of goof on you a bit in this, but these are things I see a lot -- more importantly, I think these are things that can be quickly overcome. Yeah, I wrote like, three thousand words picking at your writing, but I probably could've done it to anyone. Don't worry about it too much.

I really appreciate that you have range in your post length. The final thing I feel can kind of ruin threads is needing to write long and descriptive posts, but those are the kinds of things that end up being dragged out, spread like too little butter over too much bread. You don't have that problem -- your interaction with Jane in the Revenge of the Club thread kept things pretty snappy. While I would've loved it more if you dropped the div, I still think that that's great.

Your community presence is just generally good. I'm a zoomer so whenever I talk to you I feel like things get lost in translation, but you're around in basically ever chat, and I've never seen you put someone down or make a joke at someone's expense. Pretty based.

You're pretty tonally consistent in your posts. Caltin always reads like Caltin, and even though I might find his dialogue cheesy at times, he's got a seriousness to him that makes him seem worthy of the position of Jedi Master.

ok thats enough i need sleep wtf
 
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Auteme Auteme

Your post is long, didn’t read it all, but I will say that you weren’t the first person to take issue with the pop culture references in my posts. I used to have a character where breaking fourth wall/making references was kind of his “thing”, or schtick, (to a much, much greater extent than Caltin, from what I’ve read of his posts) and the main complaint was that it disrupted people’s immersion. Looking back, the root of my problem was that I wanted attention, to gain popularity on the site, and to win Internet friends. Or something along those lines, lol. It was typical rookie RP behavior from somebody who didn’t know what she was doing, but was enthusiastic about this fun new medium she had stumbled upon and was willing to try anything.

Anyway, Caltin Vanagor Caltin Vanagor , I will say this: I do get an overall impression of maturity and experience from Caltin. He’s a character who clearly has a long and storied history, even if you’re new to Chaos. I don’t think you have anything to worry about with him seeming “important” or not, he’s definitely a guy who’s gonna do his own thing. I also like how he’s known as the “big guy”, or I guess I like how you use that term as a euphemism for him. It’s a good quick and efficient descriptor.

Nimdok’s observation about him being “a bit much” was referring to his tendency to leap into situations recklessly or offer his opinion on something whether he has all the facts or not. He’s a bit of a reckless guy, or comes across that way, but that’s part of the territory with heroes. They jump in headfirst because time is of the essence. You could play with that aspect of his character, like if him rushing headlong into danger without knowing what he’s getting into causes some trouble or tragedy, and he has to learn to look before he leaps.

Also related to that is his sense of not belonging—he is, after all, a man out of time. Maybe he sees a lot of the same chit, nothing changes, but you may want to play more with how strange and unfamiliar the future would be to him. Idk if you have and I just haven’t read it—I have noticed you write about him feeling alone/lonely with all his family and friends long dead, which I like a lot. The awkwardness of his behavior toward Jane in the club works for me because of that, even if it does make him sound a little bit “crazy”.
 

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