Tactical importance of capital ship piloting ability

[Jessica Med-Beq]

I'm still a rather green fleeter, yet I want to sub a Knight-level NPC post-Omega to serve as a trainer for the Silver Jedi to train Jedi in capital ship piloting.

All that I ever used said NPC in was for piloting Star Destroyers. ICly that NPC claims that piloting ability of capital ship pilots was one of those things that often go unnoticed by admiralty and yet can make a tactical difference. But how much truth is there to that sort of claims?

Here capital ships are defined as being corvettes and larger.

 

[Kurayami Bloodborn]

Depends on the situation. While a good helmsman is important on a capital ship, he still takes orders from whoever is in command of the craft. Thus a competent and well versed captain would be more important IMO than just a good pilot. That said, the pilot should be comfortable behind the controls and know the limits of his ship. He needs to know turn radius, rate, acceleration/deceleration, fire arc of weapons, how quickly it can climb/descend, proper landing procedures in any given situation including under fire for a military ship, and docking procedures among other things. Remember that the arena you are entering is three dimensional so standard naval tactics are good to know but aerial combat tactics are also a boon. Much of the what the pilot knows the commander will also know, however the commander did not train to be behind the controls, he must simply know how best to employ his ship and what is at his disposal.

In the end though the pilot isn't quite as important as long as they know what i outlined above, simply because of the fact that they aren't on their own having to make the decisions, they may give advice to the captain but in the end the decision rests squarely on his shoulders and it is the pilot's job to carry out those orders in raltation to the positioning of the ship in preparation for or response to an attack.

 

[Cyrus Tregessar]

In this, as with so many other things, Star Wars suffers from the fact that we have no real idea of how these ships operate.

On a modern blue-water naval vessel, what you describe as 'piloting skill' is better encompassed by the term 'shiphandling.' It is not like driving a car (though we call it 'driving' the ship all the time) nor is it like flying an aircraft (with the possible exception of LCAC's).

You're talking about a vessel 500+ feet long that simply cannot start to stop on a dime, and even on the most manuverable ships you still need several hundred feet to come to a dead stop.

The US Navy uses a somewhat archaic (and by now possibly inefficient) system, with an Officer of the Deck, Conning Officer, and Helmsman. The first is usually a mid-level officer, the second usually a junior officer, and the last typically a very junior enlisted sailor. Orders are given by the OOD and repeated by each station. Or a more general concept of what the OOD wants is stated to the Conn, who gives specific orders to the Helm.

But it ain't like turning a steering wheel. Modern gas turbine ships don't have the old slowness is building up steam and such, but there's still delay between ordering up a listed engine RPM and the engineering team seven decks below managing it. Similarly, there's a lot of factors that influence how quickly the ship can turn and so on.

All of this would likely be similar with Star Wars ships, assuming they're not just glorified rockets (in which case they would be flown like aircraft with a 'pilot'). You've gotta factor in things like acceleration, current vector, power of thrust you have available in any given direction, stress of a given turn, etc etc. I do not think this is a one-man job.

There's also the fact that ships of different sizes will fly very differently. I reject the canon 'capital ship' description largely for the reason that corvettes, especially smaller ones, can arguably dogfight like attack craft, whereas obviously a Star Destroyer cannot. Shiphandling ability would be critical for a quick gunship corvette, but that importance would lessen for larger ships, to a point. Look at stuff like the Marg Sabl to see how maneuvering even a large ship can be important.

As far as it going unnoticed, I can say that in the US Navy being a bad shiphandler is a great way to never get anywhere as an officer. Unless you're a Nuke or Aviator.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

With the slow speed and sluggish handling of a real capital ship (ships over 1000m) I feel in a tactical sense it isn't very important.

Strategically though, getting your ship into the right position to use its guns effectively is paramount. This can include manoeuvres on the Y axis, when to turn and when to apply speed.

Piloting a big ship is less important than being able to position it on the battlefield.

For smaller, sure, piloting is much more important.

 

[Mr. OOC]

Piloting skill necessary is proportional to the size of the ship. As the size of the ship increases, piloting skill becomes less important. As the size of the ship decreases, piloting skill becomes more important.

A fighter requires good piloting skill. A Super Star Destroyer just needs to not run into other big things, since most small things will avoid running into it (except the occasional A-Wing).

 

[Alric Kuhn]

COUGH COUGH COUGH

http://starwarsrp.net/topic/70902-vt-command-throne-system/

COUGH COUGH COUGH

 

[Mr. OOC]

[member="Alric Kuhn"]
That's pretty darn awesome. Not gonna lie.

 

[Alric Kuhn]

[member="Darth Ignus"]

Available for only (Insert reasonable credit price)!

 

[Mr. OOC]

[member="Alric Kuhn"]
*hops over to your company page*

 

[Cyrus Tregessar]

[member="Darth Ignus"]
[member="Charzon Loulan"]

There's a lot more to maneuvering a large ship than simply not running into things. Especially in Star Wars, where as far as we know everything runs off reaction less drives and is therefore potentially a planetkilling weapon of mass destruction. Hell we have precedent for that on this board itself. RIP Dromund Kaas.

Piloting a starfighter and 'piloting' a larger ship are inherently different things. Skill at one does not equate to the other unless you only moving up from something like a TIE to the Millennium Falcon (which flies like a fighter).

Something like keeping a large ship in a close formation while still being able to maneuver in reaction to sudden events is a skill all its own, certainly not an easily learned one either. Remember also that in canon an ISD can beat an X-Wing in a straight line at top speed, they just have a vastly inferior rate of acceleration/deceleration.

These are all factors to consider, and I think any competent Admiral would take them into account. That said, there's a different upper limit, if you will. A superstar fighter pilot might be able to take on an entire squadron and come away unscathed, but being a brilliant shiphandler isn't necessarily going to win you a battle on its own (except possibly in a 1-on-1 fight between equally sized ships).

 

[Jsc]

#pilots

 

[Jessica Med-Beq]

[member="Cyrus Tregessar"] Hence on her tentative NPC sheet I split her piloting skills into several segments - it seems that, with that NPC, the larger the ship, the better she is at piloting them:

As a fighter pilot (and likewise with corvettes) she is somewhere between trained and veteran quality (by Codex standards), whereas as a frigate/cruiser pilot she is between veteran and elite - the one area in which she is truly elite as a pilot is what you define as capital ships (SDs and larger) and not the least because it's the only use I ever made of that NPC: being at the controls of a 2000m-long carrier.

Now I know a little bit more in what goes into shiphandling, so that I can flesh out what "elite-level piloting" means for future fleeting.

Here's her tentative NPC sheet:

Spoiler

A painting of Julie (exposed in the public collection of Jedi artists on Ringo Vinda)

Image source: Pinterest

Name: Julie Jutland
Loyalties: Silver Jedi
Role: Julie is a capital ship piloting trainer for the Silver Jedi

Development Threads:

• Ohmic Resistance - Julie pilots the Mateus on its shakedown cruise (20 posts)
• Deadly Void (Fleeting) - Julie pilots, and later assumes command, of the Mateus as a field commission over Castameer; posts #1, 13, 19, 24, 43, 47, 56, 64, 73, 82, 97, 103, 114, 127, 131, 149, 151, 152 (18 posts + 2 more pending)

40 posts total

Age: 32
Species: Human

Appearance: See above image

Personality: Julie is a proactive risk-taker; she seems fond of playing pazaak and sabacc in casinos when she isn't piloting or otherwise going around her business functions. But, as a Jedi, she feels that her fellow Jedi Aces are putting themselves in harm's way all. She takes almost excessive amounts of pride in her capital ship piloting skills and is rather condescending to her fellow capital ship pilots as well as her superiors since she feels that piloting capital ship skill is one item of tactical importance that all too many admirals neglect. Nevertheless, so long as it doesn't pertain to capital ship piloting, Julie is rather non-judgmental otherwise and a somewhat slow learner for non-piloting skills. As a result she is a rather patient woman.

Force Sensitivity: Knight

Weapon of Choice: Green-bladed ightsaber - she cannot weaponize the Force

Skills:

• Star Destroyer/battlecruiser piloting (Elite)
• Frigate/cruiser piloting (Veteran-Elite)
• Attack craft/corvette piloting (Trained-Veteran)
• Soresu (Padawan level)

Force-powers:

• Force Sense (Knight level)
• Force-push/pull (Padawan level)
• Mind trick (Padawan level)
• Instinctive Astrogation (Knight level)
• Battle meditation (Knight level)

Wealth: Moderately wealthy by virtue of being the chief process officer of Ringovinda StarYards

Combat Function: She would be more useful in fleeting than in ground combat or in a boarding action: she is useless in ranged combat in such situations. As a lightsaber combatant she is assumed to be similar to a Padawan-level combatant.

Notable Possessions: A green-bladed lightsaber, a set of jade-colored Jedi robes

History: Born on Tion in 817 ABY, Julie was born to a military family. Her mother was a tank driver. Her father that died at a young age during her teens, serving the Levantine Sanctum as a Star Destroyer pilot, when the ship he was posted on was lost with all hands, and the loss of the ship was ruled to be piloting error. Since that day, she vowed to become the best capital ship pilot in the galaxy. She initially entered Jedi service because she was found to be Force-sensitive as a teenager. Afterward, she proved to be a rather skilled pilot, and she found herself at home as a Star Destroyer pilot on the very same class of ship that her father served on.

While still a Padawan, due to the sluggishness of her learning, she became the Chief Process Officer of Ringovinda StarYards after the last one moved on out for greater opportunities. Many suspect that the Ringovindian government has put pressure on Charzon to stock a Jedi observer on its board for it to maintain affiliation to the Silver Jedi, serving in that capacity and being knighted in the five years she served as an executive.


Intent: To provide the Silver Jedi with a capital-ship piloting trainer