Mandalorian Legend
Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos
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Approved Tech Si'kahya Beskar'gam | Galaar Variant
- Thread starter The Quartermaster
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John Locke
V U L K A N
The Quartermaster
After looking this through and discussing it with others I've decided to stop chipping away at the central issue of this submission. That is to say, the min-maxing which is occurring here. Even now several resistances you provide are not true damage resistances but instead are only here to generate the low resistances which you need to balance the submission.
This is your current set of resistances:
However, not all of these are needed.
Your resistances should be reduced to the following list:
Energy
Kinetic
Concussive (including kinetic and sonic)
EMP/Ion
Electrical
Lightsabers
Elemental
Chemical
Biological
You do not need such a large list of resistances, especially when many of them are broken down elements of the same resistances or not true resistances at all.
Please reduce the resistance list to the one provided above or I will deny the submission.
Please tag me back when the changes have been made,
Mandalorian Legend
John Locke
I will make these changes, but before I do so I would just like clarification that this will be the final set of changes being requested. I feel like I’ve been strung along a series of requests to edit the submission with goalposts constantly being moved. On February 15th, this issue of nitpicking which different resistance categories were valid or not was seemingly resolved, where I complied with every request. Now this is being brought up again. With armor submissions as recently as yesterday being approved with a vast greater amount of resistance categories than what I am currently being requested to use, it feels I am being held to a harsher standard than others on nothing more than a whim. Nevermind the whole circumstances of this process — it being pulled days after approval, before ever being used in a thread where logic would reason an abuse report would arise from, to address an arbitrary and totally not OOC-motivated report. I’ve languished for nearly four months on this so I would really appreciate at least some transparency on the issue.
John Locke
V U L K A N
The Quartermaster
This will be the last set of changes requested.
My apologies if you feel strung along, as I said, I've been chipping away at it rather than approaching the central problem of the submission which has now been addressed. Once the changes are made as requested the submission will be ready for approval.
Mandalorian Legend
John Locke
V U L K A N
The Quartermaster
Thank you for making those changes, However, I see that you added a resistance of Force: None to the list.
How exactly does this work? I've been thinking about it, but I can't think of any material in the galaxy that has a weak resistance to the force, only an increased resistance. So, if we look at the average armour, for example, a storm trooper armour, how is this armour weaker than it in terms of the force?
Mandalorian Legend
John Locke
I give that rating by interpreting it at face value - it affords no resistance to any Force powers, hence ‘none.’ Slight resistance would be very low, then so on and so forth. An average resistance would be an average or middle level for whatever types of resistance there are. In that sense, I would assume that Stormtrooper armor would also have a rating of ‘none’ when it comes to Force resistance.
John Locke
V U L K A N
The Quartermaster
While I can see where you're coming from there, that's not precisely how it would work. Since the average material provides no real protection against the force, that becomes the default resistance, that is to say average. The force is a very weird element when it comes to looking at resistances because it is able to penetrate most everything, from the thickest armour to the most advanced shields. You should show up to face Dark Vader in the most advanced armour in existence and he could still raise one hand and choke you unless you had some very specific elements around you. Voidstone or a Yasilimiri for example.
If we allowed the force to be treated as a standard resistance like this then it would very easily become a resistance anyone could use to gain 3 extra ratings to be used to boost up their armour in the other categories, which creates an inherent imbalance. While we often accept armours that have a added resistance to the force, for the reasons mentioned above, I'm going to rule that the Force can only be rated at average at the lowest.
If you could please correct this then I'll approve the submission immediately.
Mandalorian Legend
John Locke
V U L K A N
John Locke
V U L K A N
Mandalorian Legend
One Eyed
Issues.
I did however, notice how John spoke of the armor from the past. It made me have a few ideas at least, how to change a few.
Concussive while not allowed, could be changed to Stun. It would possibly be the same idea but cover an entirely new damage area.
Biological on the other hand, I don't really have anything over. Radiation perhaps? I am leaving my old list of resistances HERE, this was done about a year or two ago in private when we did an internal review since some got out of hand. Use it if you wish however you like to find better ones.
Let me know when these are fixed.
The Quartermaster
The following resistances and weakness is not allowed, please remove.
I did however, notice how John spoke of the armor from the past. It made me have a few ideas at least, how to change a few.
Concussive while not allowed, could be changed to Stun. It would possibly be the same idea but cover an entirely new damage area.
Biological on the other hand, I don't really have anything over. Radiation perhaps? I am leaving my old list of resistances HERE, this was done about a year or two ago in private when we did an internal review since some got out of hand. Use it if you wish however you like to find better ones.
Let me know when these are fixed.
The QuartermasterMandalorian Legend
Listib Hibin
Would it be fine if I used the resistance list from the post you linked? I'm going to assume that it applies to the other armors as well.
Also, I'm gonna say it here, I think the factory really needs just official standardized resistances. Because these resistances were fine under the factory head admin and now I'm being told that they're not allowed. I am not angry at you or any of the factory staff, but I think you can understand that constantly shifting requirements and what is allowed can be pretty frustrating?
One Eyed
I am in total agreement with an official standardized resistance lists. When it was created, there was a lot of submissions I personally combed through that included resistances that were not limited to on the rejected list: Water, Witch Magic, Environmental, Explosives, Nebula...there was just to many attempting to abuse at the time. Blame those beforehand for having ruined all of this.
You can use the list and it will be in agreement with me. If you however, have a resistance that you think applies, please post it and we can discuss if it should be fine or not. I do not mind having a conversation back and forth on different ideas, thoughts and understanding different things. So if you have a unique Resistance, some unusual damage area not generally covered, please make it! Expanding it will always be unique.
But I will try and make a point during shutdown this year, to have a list posted somewhere on the Technologies page. I understand being frustrated, the Hyperdrive rating debacle is a big one that still irks me years later. Any questions, you can send a message at any time or voice a concern in the factory discussion.
The Quartermaster
You can use the list and it will be in agreement with me. If you however, have a resistance that you think applies, please post it and we can discuss if it should be fine or not. I do not mind having a conversation back and forth on different ideas, thoughts and understanding different things. So if you have a unique Resistance, some unusual damage area not generally covered, please make it! Expanding it will always be unique.
But I will try and make a point during shutdown this year, to have a list posted somewhere on the Technologies page. I understand being frustrated, the Hyperdrive rating debacle is a big one that still irks me years later. Any questions, you can send a message at any time or voice a concern in the factory discussion.
The QuartermasterOne Eyed
Sorry for the second post but I need to say it just in case.
Your Chemical technically is a new resistance that works. It is almost a combination of Acid, Corrosion and possibly any other chemical warfare weaponry that involves burning or corroding different objects. It is perfectly fine and you can keep it, I will be making sure to add it to the list on shutdown.
The Quartermaster
Your Chemical technically is a new resistance that works. It is almost a combination of Acid, Corrosion and possibly any other chemical warfare weaponry that involves burning or corroding different objects. It is perfectly fine and you can keep it, I will be making sure to add it to the list on shutdown.
The QuartermasterMandalorian Legend
I appreciate that. I think having something standardized will clear up confusion on both ends. I also appreciate you being willing to work with me on this and talk through it.
| Kiff resistances | Listib resistances |
| Energy | Energy |
| Kinetic | Kinetic |
| Concussive | Stun (?_) |
| EMP/Ion | EMP/Ion |
| Electrical | Electrical |
| Lightsabers | Lightsabers |
| Extreme Elemental | Extreme Heat |
| Extreme Cold | |
| The Force | Force |
| Chemical | |
| Disruptors | |
| Sonic | |
| Radiation | |
| Vacuum | |
| Piercing(?) | Vibro |
| Biological | |
| Tensor? |
Tried to make a side-by-side table to compare the two lists of resistances. I think they are pretty similar, but if I could ask some questions/make some suggestions:
- Would you be opposed to renaming stun to concussive? I think they are both talking about the same thing, but concussive would be a more technical term that at least appeals to me and the flavor of my subs.
- In the same measure, would you be opposed to renaming 'vibro' to 'piercing,' i.e. the ability of a material/armor etc. to resist being pierced? This applies to vibroweapons but I think that it's better to cover all materials ability to do so (and defend from), vibroblade or not. Would also have clearer meaning for someone not versed in Star Wars lingo.
- An idea could be splitting Kinetic into "Kinetic: Concussive" and "Kinetic: Piercing" since one could argue these are two types of kinetic damage.
- What does Tensor mean?
Listib HibinOne Eyed
Allow me to explain Tensor first.
Tensor, linked from the word, is a special type of tractor beam weapon. It pummels them with the tractor beams own energy, wave after wave by destroying the celluar level. It is a rare weapon type but deserves to be mentioned as such. We don't see it very often but when it does happen, it is perhaps one of the most unique and dangerous weapons in Star Wars.
As for Concussive being Stun, I am opposed slightly but I will work with perhaps a hybrid term such as Concussive/Stun to give a balance between the two. That way, if you are thrown across a room and get shook up in the way you wish, but also hit with a stun ray and fall partly backwards from being shaken around, both can work and both will have the same meaning.
Vibro however I will disagree entirely. Vibro, shortened for Vibroblade, is due to the unique structure of the weapon itself. A Vibroblade effectively shakes at a ultrasonic frequency, making it much like a turkey or ham like slicer from the deli. It is like a chainsaw...smacking it generally does nothing but once revved, it does more damage than expected. That is what Vibro is meant for, shaking and cutting through armor far more drastically and due to how unique Vibroblades work, be it a ridiculously sharp cutting weapon that has been shown twice to possibly cut through Beskar in weak sections, that is why it is separated in full.
The team have talked before on different sections of Kinetic damage such as Piercing and Concussive/Blunt. The end result has always been, it is still Kinetic and is universally as such, kinetic itself. It has to be a very drastic distinction to change our minds but the idea is that if it shares multiple properties or is very similar to each other, it is not allowed. Disruptors been a keynote to mention before going further as the energy damage is different from an actual blaster bolt.
As for Biological, the issue has been constantly that it been more or less a dump stat. No one really takes advantage and when it does, there is rebreathers and a lot of other gadgets usually in armor to ignore it still. Meaning really, it is useless. We call the hits regardless and this also just made it...not workable.
As for what John was mentioning, no one really needs a large list of resistances unless needed. He just wanted it smaller at the time and there was certain problems with your resistances at the time.
Also I should point out and really wish I did earlier, Extreme Elemental is more or less, perfectly fine for Heat/Cold weather. They can be combined if needed and helps stat work at times. Pressure/Vacuum is generally also been in the past year a combined stat as they are virtually and closely the same.
If any other questions, please let me know. If I missed anything, poke me and I will answer it the next time around. Been a long day and I may have missed things.
The Quartermaster
Tensor, linked from the word, is a special type of tractor beam weapon. It pummels them with the tractor beams own energy, wave after wave by destroying the celluar level. It is a rare weapon type but deserves to be mentioned as such. We don't see it very often but when it does happen, it is perhaps one of the most unique and dangerous weapons in Star Wars.
As for Concussive being Stun, I am opposed slightly but I will work with perhaps a hybrid term such as Concussive/Stun to give a balance between the two. That way, if you are thrown across a room and get shook up in the way you wish, but also hit with a stun ray and fall partly backwards from being shaken around, both can work and both will have the same meaning.
Vibro however I will disagree entirely. Vibro, shortened for Vibroblade, is due to the unique structure of the weapon itself. A Vibroblade effectively shakes at a ultrasonic frequency, making it much like a turkey or ham like slicer from the deli. It is like a chainsaw...smacking it generally does nothing but once revved, it does more damage than expected. That is what Vibro is meant for, shaking and cutting through armor far more drastically and due to how unique Vibroblades work, be it a ridiculously sharp cutting weapon that has been shown twice to possibly cut through Beskar in weak sections, that is why it is separated in full.
The team have talked before on different sections of Kinetic damage such as Piercing and Concussive/Blunt. The end result has always been, it is still Kinetic and is universally as such, kinetic itself. It has to be a very drastic distinction to change our minds but the idea is that if it shares multiple properties or is very similar to each other, it is not allowed. Disruptors been a keynote to mention before going further as the energy damage is different from an actual blaster bolt.
As for Biological, the issue has been constantly that it been more or less a dump stat. No one really takes advantage and when it does, there is rebreathers and a lot of other gadgets usually in armor to ignore it still. Meaning really, it is useless. We call the hits regardless and this also just made it...not workable.
As for what John was mentioning, no one really needs a large list of resistances unless needed. He just wanted it smaller at the time and there was certain problems with your resistances at the time.
Also I should point out and really wish I did earlier, Extreme Elemental is more or less, perfectly fine for Heat/Cold weather. They can be combined if needed and helps stat work at times. Pressure/Vacuum is generally also been in the past year a combined stat as they are virtually and closely the same.
If any other questions, please let me know. If I missed anything, poke me and I will answer it the next time around. Been a long day and I may have missed things.
The QuartermasterMandalorian Legend
Listib Hibin
Man where have these Tensor-based weaponry been I need that in my life XD. Thank you for clarifying that. And I realize stun is referencing stun, not the act of being stunned.
Ok, I have added tensor, vibroweapon, stun, disruptor, removed biological, kept extreme elemental combined, and added pressure/vacuum as combined. I more get the reasoning behind you and John's approaches, although I still disagree with them. Why I approach my subs the way I do -- a comprehensive list of resistances in each one -- is to have each one fairly balanced relative to each other. I think the approach allows for more balance overall and allows an armor built for a specific, often niche purpose to shine more and be reflective of that.
Regardless, let me know what you think of the resistance changes. If they look good to you, great I'll update my weaknesses accordingly and my other submissions that got pulled for review for the same reasons.
One Eyed
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