Discussion Setting Expectations Regarding GA Senate RP

[Tiresh Kobitana-Draellix]

I want to prefix this by saying the following:

• I love and respect all the staff of the GA Faction.
• I am not writing this out of anger in any way. I simply want to help bring clarity to our writing community so that expectations of political writers is appropriately tempered.
• There is no right or wrong way to RP. Everyone is different and has varying values / expectations / goals / plans as writers / communities.

I have been writing political RP within the GA for probably 2 years now, and was brought onto Staff this past month with a specified interest in helping to grow and develop the political stories that we our writers could thrive in. Just a few days ago, I chose to step down from Staff, not because of any bad blood or salt, but simply because my fundamental value system... what I value and muse with regarding political RP... was incompatible. So why am i writing this? Because I invested an incredible amount of time and energy into developing my character and numerous story threads over the past few years within the context of this community, and i was completely unaware of certain very important factors in how the GA functions that would have been very helpful to know on the front end. And I know, from many conversations i have had, that I am not the only one who was unaware.

Primarily that the narrative is mostly, if not completely, pre-determined. This means that, fundamentally, senatorial writers are not actually developing story progression IC that will produce anything outside or beyond what has already been determined by the GA staff. Senatorial writers surely add flavor and color to the story, but they do not affect the outcome of the story. The outcome has already been established. I think it is important for writers to know this, because almost everyone I ever interacted with throughout my 2 year season with the GA believed the same as me: That we were, together, developing and progressing the senatorial politics in a very dynamic and interactive way.

My character helped to spearhead the development of the Free Alliance Coalition (FAC), which involved over a dozen unique senatorial writers, helped to directly inspire 3-5 new writers to begin writing senatorial RP, and also dynamically connected many writers within the bounty hunter sector to get involved in what I consider to be a very unique and organic storyline that everyone directly contributed in and greatly enjoyed. I wish that we would have known that the story of the GA was pre-determined. It would have saved many of us a lot of confusion, misunderstanding, and frustration with how things turned out.

But again, I am sure that many writers enjoy the way that the GA handles political RP. There are many strengths to how they do things, namely it creates an easy onramp for writers to simply jump in to what is going on. The Staff are thinking through everything and doing all the hard work on the outset, and so it reduces the workload on the average writer. You get to be apart of something great that is already moving.

And ultimately, that is the whole reason i am writing this, is so that writers can make informed decisions on where they choose to write. The GA creates a phenomenal on-ramp, has a comprehensive political framework, and dedicated Staff who work hard to keep things moving forward. But if you happen to want more control of the reigns, to invest more time and energy into story writing, and desire to dynamically and organically write together with other writers as you all determine your own outcomes and storylines, then you might want to consider alternatives.

• I have not written with the RTL, but from what I have seen and heard, it seems that their values as a faction are geared towards writers developing and progressing storylines IC. They do have a political framework, albeit much less established or comprehensive then that of the GA, but it seems like it might be a good option for those who, like me, are looking for a little more investment. I am currently considering trying this faction out and seeing if it's a good fit.

• I am also considering the possibility of starting my own faction, if there is enough interest in such a thing. A primary goal for this new faction would be to develop a solid framework and comprehensive political structure (alongside other core elements) but in a sandbox-type format, where the writers can literally do anything they want to within the framework, but their characters must live with the consequences of their actions. This would create much more IC weight to every story and decision, and the possibilities are endless. If any of what i've said rings true to you, and you crave a similar experience, let me know your interested below!

Also, as a final comment, i want to reiterate once again that there is no right or wrong way to RP. Please do not bash any faction if you comment below. Let's respect everyone and their preferences in this discussion.

 

[Tefka]

Hahahahaha oh man welp this is what happens behind closed doors, since the beginning of Chaos. Narratives being predetermined paths.

Factions, MFOs, "Creative Teams" got bold with it these last few years, as obstacles like myself, Staff and many writers got soft and moved. Who'da thunk there's just as many egos and narratives they don't like upsetting behind closed doors as there are accusations that there's not.

People just hate conflict and getting called out for paying more attention to their toys or retaining positions than they do like fostering environments that make it possible for dynamic evolution of RP. It's always been like this. And to be honest, I have no issue with it a majority of the time, because I've seen pure dynamic change and it's not all it's cracked up to be either. It really doesn't pander well. Pure unbridled democracy is RIFE with unstoppable corruption. If you leave a poll with hidden votes, people outside your faction will interfere. If you don't crack down on inactives, people will use inactives to appear as if they're members of your faction with the EXPECTATION that you're too soft to call them out or they can play stupid enough to pass.

"But Tef I'm not talking about all that bs I'm talking about political RP." Same same, maybe a little different, but the same applies to political RP. The Chancellor is 99 times out of 100 going to be chosen by Faction Staff/Faction Owner. And again, for reasons outlined above, I'd prefer it that way for me and mine. A guided hand, even if corrupted/nepotistic, beats the fevered masses. Not ideal, but again, I've seen it. The fevered masses don't play by the rules either.

"But Tef, I'm not even talking about Chancellor, I'm talking about political RP period and how it's structured. The narrative of the leadership of X faction just sucks all the creativity out of it." This is the best argument, but again, I punch back. If you falter in the face of a gatekeeping faction leadership that condenses storylines to fit their vision, you have a brittle soul. It's not my expectation for a faction's team, which works to move their faction, to bend to my will. I expect them to do whatever the eff they wanna do. But me, as a writer, I have a muffton of power myself. I can keep at it. I can get back up after being rejected. I can refuse to quit. I can remain defiant. I can scream louder. I can write longer. I can invent Fal Gore and escalate the entire political game in a single faction. I can get comedic with it. I can get serious with it. I can realize that when I'm being gatekept, it is because the opposition has a singular direction they want to go in. That's the weakest thing they have going for them, is they have one direction they can go in.

The directions you can go is infinity.

Political RP is fun, and GA doesn't have to be the only place for it. I hope you choose a direction for yourself that is fun and grow from this as a writer.

 

[Tiresh Kobitana-Draellix]

Thanks Tefka

 

[Tefka]

Yo also shoutout to The Bryn'adul who hilariously told me to kick rocks one time because my ideas didn't fit their direction as a Faction, as judged by their Staff Team. I'll be real I can't think of many of their leadership I could picture myself having a beer with OOC, they were kinda a supernerdy warhammer type group, but I love niche alien factions and was flirting with the idea of joining them because who cares about OOC.

Despite being a tyrannical Site Owner with a fragile ego, I respected their reasoning/vision. They went minor sometime later, but they did it staying true to the story they wanted to write and I wasn't gonna get miffed about me not fitting in.

I mean it's kinda a "their loss" but also a "you do you" with a small pinch of "I am a real boy and can healthily deal with rejection."

 

[Tegan Starfall]

It's kind of a double edged sword this sort of thing Predetermined vs Flexibility in a faction. With Predetermination a faction is less likely to lose it's identity and vision, however it far to often becomes boring and lead by few become exclusionary. With to much Flexibility you are guided by whims and outcomes that magical experiences that will often be remembered. However you often burn brightly but quickly the faction identity gets muddied and people lose interest because they have no idea what you are anymore.

Striking the right balance is one of the hardest challenges for a faction IMO. They often slide far to one side or the other. In the end all you can do as a player is find the right fit for you. From my own experience you are never going to change those in the leads of Factions minds they know what they want and will more times then not stick to that vision. Trust me I have fought enough FO in my days it's just best to walk away and you do you for your characters.

Me personally I am from the dark ages of star wars rp boards where FO owners would ban you from there factions for even thinking of speaking up or out against something you didn't care for. Then again back in the day before chaos it was also a board wide ban to collude with other factions or tell another faction your plans the rule of infiltration. Some rules are best left in the past even if it made things more chaotic in threads.

 

[Matsu Ike]

Tegan is not wrong, it is a heavy balancing act but also this is chaos and the senate when it is used has skipped a lot of procedure. There is no forming a bill they already have it, there is no committee that factors into it and has to be bargained with, no gathering ideas of the impact it will have. There is no gathering support for it or setting it up to be on the agenda in a session. Every session of the senate is almost specifically for that bill or that sole reason. Then there is little debate about it or defending it it is voted on and then you have conversations suddenly requesting other bills be made on the spot, investigations, replacing planetary leaders It devolves until people lose interest... and then the bill rarely factors into anything. Selena, myself and a couple others tried to make the senate in the first republic factor in but it rarely worked out good... now the threads are fun to read when Bounce tells me "dude you are going to laugh at this"

 

[Tefka]

hen again back in the day before chaos it was also a board wide ban to collude with other factions or tell another faction your plans the rule of infiltration.

Mashed up sentence but I take it a previous community had a rule against “infiltration”? That’s a good example of using negative words to paint a ruling as a good thing, lol. Crazy.

The SWRP Staff Team does support forcibly removing troublesome members from factions, but we don’t enter the discussion assuming anyone’s at fault. We ask questions. But it’s rare, anyways. But I assume communities were getting away with it back in the day when forums were like, the no. 1 outlet for writing.

 

[Tefka]

That said, I don’t think Faction Admins should ever be forced to deal with members they don’t want to rp with. But I also don’t want writers feeling shunned/exiled/bullied. If communication hits a brick wall, just bounce, like OP did. It’s healthy for the soul.

 

[Kristyl Arenais]

I'm currently searching for a way into political rp for this character (hiding force sensitivity because future prospective IC drama).

Kristyl is now the sole heir of Mnemosyne and will eventually represent it years down the line but I'm looking for a way to partner alongside another political character and learn the ropes as I myself have never written a politician before.

Chaos' OOC politics I know well, but the IC is a different story. Amusingly my faction of choice is The Galactic Alliance since mnemosyne is near her border.

Any in character tips or ideas? I'm not out to sway a factions movement. Just want the story to write and learn to write it well.

 

[IVI]

Kristyl Arenais

In terms of your character, you have a lot of freedom to determine what political angle they are taking, how your planet is governered and how you are voting in the senate.

Primarily what GA staff leads on is things like leadership positions and narrative angles that can suddenly veer the faction into a wild direction.

So for instance an IC vote isn't going to cause a war erupting between the GA and another faction. But the senate can do a lot when it comes to adding flavour to the faction setting and things like that. If your goal is to explore your character's ambitions through a story, the best thing you can do is lean into their perspectives, goals, culture and represent them in the senate.

One of the senate outcomes that is still impacting our decisions was the choice to outlaw the use of clones in the army — which is something we are still keeping in mind as we are revamping the GADF. Here's a list of a few others.

You can also propose bills forward to the faction/senate, and have other senators weigh in and vote on your proposal.

If you have any other questions feel free to reach out to me or any other GA staff member!

 

[Tiresh Kobitana-Draellix]

I'm currently searching for a way into political rp for this character (hiding force sensitivity because future prospective IC drama).

Kristyl is now the sole heir of Mnemosyne and will eventually represent it years down the line but I'm looking for a way to partner alongside another political character and learn the ropes as I myself have never written a politician before.

Chaos' OOC politics I know well, but the IC is a different story. Amusingly my faction of choice is The Galactic Alliance since mnemosyne is near her border.

Any in character tips or ideas? I'm not out to sway a factions movement. Just want the story to write and learn to write it well.

I think the GA Senate would be great. Like IVI said, you can freely develop your own character, planet, and relationships with other Senate writers. Easiest thing to do is join the GA discord, assign your role as “senate”, and keep your eye out for new threads with political objectives in them and jump in!

 

[Kristyl Arenais]

IVI Tiresh Kobitana-Draellix

Im posting from my phone at the moment so forgive me if it's short. Fortunately I am in the GA discord (Caedyn/Lukan), but after posting to the faction forum, it was suggested to me to read this post. Figured I'd get some site wide advice at the same time

Mnemosyne is my own subbed world, and Kristyl was raised by jedi so you can probably imagine her values and pro-democracy, however she's new to politics as well as she's been situated on the edge of the unknown regions for so long. I'm very interested to see how her views might change and how she might develop as a character.

Politics is in her blood of course as her grandmother is Lady Kay Arenais after all. Before many people's time, I suspect.

 

[Liin Terallo]

I find that political and character development that leads to natural story outcomes is best. Otherwise it's like reading the end of a mystery novel and knowing the solution before the characters in the story can arrive there. That takes a lot of fun out of it! However some people are not very creative and prefer to be guided every step of the way so that they can do no wrong.

I am new to this board and not in any of the groups or chats as of yet. But I plan on getting to know different ones through in character methods before settling on any. Fortunately Liin's home planet isn't in any government territory but it's own. So that gives plenty of creative freedom and the chance to reach out to many, instead of being isolated to just one group. This approach is serving me well, so far!

 

[Kristyl Arenais]

I find that political and character development that leads to natural story outcomes is best. Otherwise it's like reading the end of a mystery novel and knowing the solution before the characters in the story can arrive there. That takes a lot of fun out of it! However some people are not very creative and prefer to be guided every step of the way so that they can do no wrong.

I am new to this board and not in any of the groups or chats as of yet. But I plan on getting to know different ones through in character methods before settling on any. Fortunately Liin's home planet isn't in any government territory but it's own. So that gives plenty of creative freedom and the chance to reach out to many, instead of being isolated to just one group. This approach is serving me well, so far!

Who knows, maybe we'll come across each other someday. Hopefully not on opposite sides, of course!

Kristyl's homeworld is really her fathers, House Arenais. She herself went with her Mom and the Ascendency waaay out from Galactic Civilization. She's really only been a wanderer before this, with the exception of child life on Naboo where she was born. No claim to any one place aside from Mnemosyne in which she's trying to discover where she belongs in the way of things.

 

[Liin Terallo]

Kristyl Arenais - I look forward to it!

 

[Inanna Harth]

OP's posts and what a few others have said was basically my experience writing a Senator. Everything felt stilted and static because nobody could truly have an effect on the narrative or deviate from the predetermined outcome. Debates were essentially meaningless and lacked interest/tension/momentum. I remember one senatorial meeting which devolved into politicians being catty and gossiping...? It was weird. I didn't enjoy it, assumed political RP just wasn't my cup of tea, and wound up relegating the representation of my custom planet in the GA Senate to an NPC.

But I did enjoy writing about politics from a more "internal" standpoint as opposed to the bigshot senatorial stuff. A diplomat from a conquered world struggling to ensure the surviving refugees from her homeworld found a new home elsewhere, for instance. I had more control over that narrative, and it was a lot of fun. So I agree that it's a matter of approach. Some ways work, others will not.

Anyway, I appreciate the honesty. You've put into words what I was feeling when I created a Senator expecting to be able to affect the narrative, and the disappointment that resulted when I realized that wasn't going to be the case. So you're not alone in the dissatisfaction. Others have outlined why things are this way, so it's simply a matter of expectations vs reality. I wish you luck in your pursuits and hope you can find a happy medium.

 

[Tefka]

TLDR; voting doesn’t mix well with roleplay bc of the metagame.

Who’d thunk that people in authority aren’t so keen to allow a system that could oust them from authority.

Works well IRL when the repercussions have stakes, but in roleplay the only stakes are the occasional thread complaining about it’s lack of immersion/a few writers leave the faction.

As a former Mando leader, I allowed the title of Mandalor (leadership position) to be challenged by duel. Bc immersion. But this created a situation where every simple faction thread got derailed by some new character challenging the leader of 20-40 other characters for the right to lead. We tried limiting it but it seems once you put actual rules to follow in place, no matter how simple, writers become wholly uninterested and everyone was back to complaining.

Not a direct comparison but you can see how balance is hard to find an authoritative leadership is just easier. People want easy, even if they tell you they want a Chamber of house rules and 30 regulations on District voting blocks in the Galactic Alliance.

 

[Tegan Starfall]

Not a direct comparison but you can see how balance is hard to find an authoritative leadership is just easier. People want easy, even if they tell you they want a Chamber of house rules and 30 regulations on District voting blocks in the Galactic Alliance.

In my own opinion there are generally four general types of star wars rpers from my long history in these communities. These are of course generalized so there can be shades of grey and people also shift over time between them.

The authoritarians:

Now there are three main sub categories of these the old guard, the know it all, and visionaries.

The old guard are those who have been around a long time usually over five years. This group has done a lot in the community and just about everyone new and old knows them. They demand respect for what they have done and accomplished. Some are worse then others, though most just like to share there stories of the past and have the newer folk awe and say that is damn cool. Yet sometimes you do a pushy one who wants you to acknowledge everything they did and want you to follow it like it's cannon in story. For the most part the Old guard just want to keep what they did and have respect for it to varying degrees depending on the writer. Over all it comes from the fact they have stuck by a community and contributed to it they feel a sense of entitlement to it. It's relatively harmless and easily ignored with out much drama other then maybe occasional complaining.

The know it all assume they know everything about star wars and will correct you on every minor infraction or change you have on idea that might fall into actual star wars cannon or legends. They know everything and you know nothing. They are always right and you are always wrong and they want to strong arm you by putting you down. The know it all are also often the grammar and spelling police and aren't that nice about it as well. This is the worst type and I just ignore them now days I use to fight and argue with now I just walk away and do something else.

The Visionary just has an idea in mind and plan for getting there and deviating from it will cause them to have a meltdown. If you aren't into there idea it's just best to move on because they won't usually change there minds. Though you might be able to convince them on certain ideas that can fit with in there plan you really don't know unless you ask. The visionary is completely harmless with tinge of drama when they meltdown cause there plan didn't pan out the way they intended.

The Followers:

This is the majority especially when they are new to a community. They may know what they want there character to be and do they just don't know how or where to start. They want someone to tell them what to do and where to go. They want there hands held and for older folks in the community this can be annoying because they have there own stories they want to tell and do. The a few followers stick around long enough that they find there independence. Some never find but fall under the spell of one of the authoritarian groups. Some never find there place and disappear which is sadly the majority the turn over rate on rpers is huge. There is nothing wrong with being a follower things like Chaos can seem like a giant ocean and it seems hard to find your niche it. There is a lot of history here and even before here that can seem daunting, people will tell you it doesn't matter and others will tell you it does. It can be hard to navigate and you need a helping hand, not everyone can just jump into the pool head on. So don't feel bad if you fall into this group someday hopefully you will fly free.

The Undecided:

The undecided are a lot like the followers in that they don't know where to begin or where they might fit in. The difference is they change there minds every two seconds creating a new character. Now there is nothing wrong with creating other characters god I should know I have created over 200 alts in my time in swrp however when I started I had just two and dropped one after a few months and mained the second for over five years before I went alt crazy because I wanted to experience other things I couldn't with my main with out completely changing them. The overall issue with alts can be burn out or not finding anything that sticks or clicks. It doesn't mean you shouldn't do it because it is fun to experience new things I would just suggest spacing it out over time. The undecided often never find there place and disappear sadly and often a lot of them are very creative they just can't stick to idea and let play out long enough for it to find it's place. I have seen so many great ideas die because someone gives up to quickly.

The Anarchists or Independents:

The funny part about this group is most of the authoritarians started out here and they clash heavily with the authoritarian groups. This group will jump right into rps. They know what there characters are and what they will do in almost any situation. These people really know what there characters are and what they want them to be. They won't let anyone or anything stand in the way hence why they clash with authoritarian groups. They are also the group that seems to get banned a lot cause they argue a lot. They get in trouble all the time and yelled at and complained about sometimes deservedly so, sometimes not. A lot them over time grow to be respected, pillars of a community, and they often become the old guard authoritarians. One other trait of this group is they often say they are going to leave (like me) but someone or something sparks there imagination, rage, or they just can't leave things the way they are. So they always come back often to the annoyance to staff, factions, or other writers.

This my group and the one I seem to be stuck in not that I mind. I mean I have have been banned (and unbanned) from every major star wars board that has existed since 1998, except Chaos (yet). Granted in my old age I careless about the things I use to argue about that would get me banned now I mostly just walk away or ignore things. I no longer have the drive to argue and fight unless someone personally attacks me first. I also failed on becoming an authoritarian old guard because I was banned from a lot of places for long periods of times and most people forgot who I was which gave me fressh starts which was nice and a real chance to start over.

I have also left communities chaos twice now, once out of being upset with a story that wrote and it got rewritten by an FO and the other because I just didn't know where to go next story wise. Yet I have come back to those communities int he past and chaos.

On Chaos when I first showed up (actually the second time I showed up because the first there was still bad blood from another board) I just jumped right in. I jumped into a invasion of all things right away between EE and GA I knew who and what my character was, so I brought a big freaking bomb (A bomb that was promptly banned right after the invasion. >>). I mean it was war, but both sides had decided before hand that no civilians would get harmed but I know my character Tegan they don't care who gets killed plus she wasn't apart of either faction just asked for a slot in the invasion and was granted it. Anyway I fought another writer IC and then set up the bomb and left it open ended with giving EE and GA the option to decide it went off or if they stopped it before it went off. I personally didn't care either way I had established what my character was about they didn't care who they harmed this was war (it's exactly why the Maw was a perfect fit for her later on when they showed up as a major faction). I just moved on did my own things elsewhere later found out there was a big drama fest over the whole ordeal cause they had the bomb go off and it killed something like 100,000,000 people on the planet. When I found out people where upset OOC my only defenses were I did what my character would do (and by that point I was in the Maw and it was well established Tegan didn't care who she hurt), I left the post open for the factions to decide I didn't decide anything was blown up they did, and It was IC and if they wanted to come after my character for it they were free too cause IC action (That don't break board rules) should have IC consequences not OOC ones. The drama eventually faded as it always does, the morale is you do you. You might upset some people but no one is going to like everything you do or like your character. People want to control you for there own vision not yours. This doesn't mean never compromise, it just means when you do make sure the compromise honors your story and your character as much as it does the other person or persons you are writing with. My General rule when writing with others is I want to uplift them as much as I can and hopefully they respect me enough to do the same. That is why I left the bomb ending open play the hero stop the bomb or let go off and right your tragedy what ever what you wanted, I got what I wanted to show what character was about a remorseless villain who didn't give a crude about who they hurt.

TL : DR

We are different we need to learn how to get along or ignore each other. Drama happens and it fades with time. I am horrible at spelling and grammer I have my reasons. Also my thoughts a jumbled mess I shouldn't write long form posts, so I am sorry.

 

[Jadcasa Leesib]

Tegan Starfall

Brilliantly put.

 

[Tefka]

This my group and the one I seem to be stuck in not that I mind.

I like your opinion of how people breakdown into groups, but by your own defintions I don’t think you’re a Chaotic anymore.

Yknow, given those last few paragraphs of talking about the old guard days.