Ren Tags

[Perth Levov]

Any chance we could have Ren tags? I know it's been asked before but the recent changes made me think of it again - especially when it came to choosing Perth's tags.

My two Ren are not Sith, or Jedi, or Dark Jedi or Neutral. So a set of Ren tags would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[NightSister]

Not a Ren and not intending to write one anytime soon, but especially considering the Ren have a Master or two on their hands now I think it should really happen. I know it'd be a bit of work on the admins' behalf to install the tags into the code, but there are quite a lot of Ren characters on the board now and once the tags are added to the rank system there's no real downside, so as far as I see it it's really a "but why not?" situation.

I'm sure there's a reason not to, but I've not payed close enough attention to this debate to know what it is, so don't mind me.

 

[Garza]

If we were to install Ren Tags, then we would have to accommodate every other order that ever took place. Shapers of Kro Var. Jenessari, Jed'aii. Mandalorian Knights. Everything. Its been said no before for this reason. While you may not be a Neutral or a Dark Jedi in name, Your classified as a Dark Jedi. Not Sith.

Even the force users that worked for Palpatine during the Empire were not called sith. They were called Dark Jedi. Dark Sided Force users. The Ren are dark in nature, thus, Dark Jedi is what they are classified as, or as a Neutral Force user. Its a very simple tag meant to encompass everyone. For those who practice more witchy or arcane forces of the force, they have the witch tags. Hence why they are there, and not Ren tags.

 

[Connor Harrison]

With Ren more and more a part of the big SW film lore coming up following 'TFA', we have witches who are all EU....or ex-EU material.... so I support the option to have tags for a Force Group fully blown film canon and who support the First Order.

I am not a Dark Jedi, nor quite a Sith. Connor is a Dark Sider. Following the Dark Side of the Force as Sith do and the Knights of Ren do. They are Dark Siders, not Dark Jedi. And while fallen Jedi are classed as 'Dark Jedi', I think it's fair to give people the chance to voice their siding with a sect not akin to the Jedi themselves for their own creativity and development. Dark Siders who HAVEN'T been Jedi may well become a Ren, and they deserve a title as much as Jedi, Sith, Mandos or Witches.

I support this.

 

[Matreya]

I would recommend, should it be unable to be accomplished, simply to use the same type of Master/Knight/Apprentice that [member="Connor Harrison"] uses. Put a connotation somewhere that you are not Dark Jedi, Sith, etc, but that you are "(Fill in the blank) Knight" etc.

 

[Travis Caalgen]

I say they aren't needed.

As [member="Atheus"] said; there are Jedi, Sith, and Witch tags because they are three respective tags of how the Force works. The healing and defensive powers of the Light Side are paramount of the Jedi, the destructive and life-stealing of the Dark Side are for the Sith, and the mystic and unknown powers of Magicks are of the Witches. Apprentice, Knight, and Master are there to encompass those who do not fill in these 'cliches'. As was also said, if we had to have tags for every Force Order, things would get hairy.

As for the Mandos...I have no idea why...

 

[NightSister]

If we were to install Ren Tags, then we would have to accommodate every other order that ever took place. Shapers of Kro Var. Jenessari, Jed'aii. Mandalorian Knights.

The Ren are a much bigger deal, particularly on the site. Besides, what would be wrong with accommodating other orders? If they're relevant enough and have enough active characters on the site, then why not?

 

[Mishel Kryze]

And now that the admins don't have to change tags themselves, I really don't see the issue here. Most especially considering a lot of the new First Order/Ren material coming down from canon this year.

 

[Natasi Fortan]

At this point I don't have that big a dog in the fight -- I don't mind either way -- but I have to say I find the arguments a bit feeble. It is not appropriate to lump Random Force Orders #721, #8831, #10928 and #291810 with the Knights of Ren. The Knights of Ren are, to my knowledge, the only non-Jedi/Sith Force Order that are recognized as canon in the highest level of canon in this universe, the films. So it would be very easy to say yes to the Ren and no to The Moste Holy Order of Force Templars or whatever.

 

[Xiarr Sair]

"Join the Ren side of the force, it is your destiny!"

 

[Kyrel Ren]

I believe that it is time to have Ren tags, we have evolved so much regarding the last time this topic was brought up, we have gained more writers to write the Ren, we are starting to get more Masters of Ren. We are also getting more hype regarding the Ren and more lore coming up in a few months with the release of Last Jedi. I for one rather not identify as the Dark Jedi or Sith but something far different. I believe this should be given a chance.

 

[Darth Ferus]

With the pick your own system why not have all of those orders?

I'm down with the Ren tho, even if the others aren't added.

 

[Poe]

If the writers of the Ren put so much effort to create something based off a single movie with little to no backstory about this Order, then I say applaud their efforts and creativity. Give them thier Tags.

 

[WolfMortum]

Considering how often I've been referred to as a Sith over the past few days !

I'm all for this one, though yes I'm completely biased on the whole ordeal and not likely to give any real argument that's going to be anything otherwise. I'm just tired of being lugged in with the rest of those mugs; You Sith are cool and all but years of torture tends to mar a guys perspective....

 

[Grrwunhoooll Agaburry]

[member="Brennan Cabrol"]

You are Sith.

 

[Tefka]

Still, nothing is known about the Knights of Ren and likely won't be until Episode 8 comes out. I'm hesitant to do anything about them until more knowledge from canon is revealed.

What makes you different than a Dark Jedi? What makes you different from a Sith?

No one has the capability of providing a convincing answer to these questions, outside of Disney/script writers for Episode 8. Until then, it's just a new way to say Dark Jedi.

 

[RIP Carlyle Rausgeber]

What makes you different than a Dark Jedi? What makes you different from a Sith?

Well for one, not all of the Ren use the darkside. [member="Amit Nykoan"] isn't a dark jedi, he's a light sided KoR. To call us dark Jedi does us a great injustice, and takes away from the stories and lore we have created. To then also call us Sith doesn't work, as the KoR aren't so self-serving, and serve a greater purpose rather than scheming away. Ultimately, to use those tags lumps the Ren in with other folks, and forces us to constantly differentiate ourselves when we're trying to recruit.

Still, nothing is known about the Knights of Ren and likely won't be until Episode 8 comes out. I'm hesitant to do anything about them until more knowledge from canon is revealed.

**Goalpost Moving Intensifies**

I'm kidding, but that's what it seems like. When this topic was last brought up, we were told we were too niche. Too small to be able to have our own tag. Now we've built a community, and we have a good number of great writers who play Ren, we're told we need to wait for more canon.

I'm sorry, but this is Chaos. Hang canon. We're a site which utilises Legends and current canon. Who really cares? The First Order has done it's darndest to build up its own lore for its force users, and it probably won't fit neatly with Kylo and the crew because of that. We're not the same First Order, so trying to tie us to them, and delaying our tags another eight months does nothing. By that time, we're probably going to be an entirely different beast than the films.

 

[Caelag Vass]

[member="Carlyle Rausgeber"]

Wow so many in favor. I feel compelled to play devil's advocate here...

Can a Ren be non-first order?

I think that's the question that needs to be asked. Can a Ren be unaffiliated with the First Order?

Perhaps a better way of putting it...

A Jedi doesn't have to affiliate with any particular Order. They are Jedi, plain and simple. They might identify with an order like the GA or SJO, but they don't have to.

A Sith doesn't have to affiliate with any order either, in fact I play a sith completely separated from any organization of similar folk. I don't have to have her be a part of the Ascendancy.

And a witch doesn't have to be part of an order either, in fact I don't even know if there's been a witch based order on the board (though admittedly I don't know everything).

And a Dark Jedi, well almost by default they rarely have an order, but they certainly can organize together if they wish.

And the neutral tag that doesn't imply any sort of cohesion or affiliation with particular groups fits everything else as the generic tag of the bunch.

But can a knight of ren exist outside of the First Order? If they cannot... what makes them any different from a subfaction or group? If I got together twenty people of various ranks who called themselves Knights of Pizza or something similar, certainly a significant number of writers, would that qualify them to have tags added for their own rankings because they don't fit inside any of the others absolutely 100%

I think that's really the question that's being asked by Tefka and staff.

And to the rebuttal of a lightside Ren: A sith too can embrace the lightside of the force almost exclusively, yet still follow the Sith code and remain a Sith. As strange as that may sound, it can happen, it does happen. So such a point is relatively inconsequential in the debate of what makes the Ren a significant enough thing to warrant their own tags, with reasoning that can satisfy everyone without opening the doors to seeing "Pizza Knight' tags popping up on the board.

 

[Kenrath]

Well for one, not all of the Ren use the darkside. [member="Amit Nykoan"] isn't a dark jedi, he's a light sided KoR. To call us dark Jedi does us a great injustice, and takes away from the stories and lore we have created. To then also call us Sith doesn't work, as the KoR aren't so self-serving, and serve a greater purpose rather than scheming away. Ultimately, to use those tags lumps the Ren in with other folks, and forces us to constantly differentiate ourselves when we're trying to recruit.

You Sir have made my night. Bravo Sir.

 

[Hansen]

The Ren are a much bigger deal, particularly on the site. Besides, what would be wrong with accommodating other orders? If they're relevant enough and have enough active characters on the site, then why not?

This.