Redefining Minor Factions

[Teynara Jeralyr]

Greetings, all,

Following on from a discussion had in Faction Owner chat, thought I'd do some brainstorming outloud and see if it gains any traction.

Anyway, at present, Minor Factions exist in a fairly fuzzy grey area: they can be anything they want, but their rights and ability to be present in the map game is fairly nebulous: Major Factions alone can control planets and territory on the map, and as such, serve as the 'governments' of the Galaxy. But, as you know, many individuals and the Minor Factions they create have laid claim to planets that either aren't controlled yet, or weren't to start with and are then taken by a Major Faction. This often leads to the Minor Faction dissolving, or becoming Major.

A few of us have talked about giving Minor Factions a little more recognition, and viewing them as substantial players in terms of the Galaxy map, even though they have no overt presence there. This will allow for broader play, and stop Minor factions being eliminated as Major factions expand outwards, as they are prone to do.

First thing: we'd eliminate subfactions as an automatic change to a Minor subsumed by a Major, since planets often change hands, and thus, a Minor could retain planetary control even if it's taken over by a different Major. I'll explain this more as I go.

As part of a concept around creating a more diplomatic/governmental approach to Chaos (so that the map game isn't all pure war), I was thinking we might work to clarify and redefine Minor Factions. Let me lay it out for you:

Definition

A Minor Faction is any group that holds limited influence over the Galaxy: they may be a small-time organisation, a company, or the government of a single planet. They do not have influence clouds and may not control any territory on the map.

However, it is possible for a Minor Faction to take political control over a single planet. In this instance, their Faction Owner may install themselves as a monarch or other political leader, and will rule the planet as a local government. If this planet is controlled by a Major Faction, the Minor Faction rules at their sufferance, and becomes a Vassal Minor Faction.

Ruling planets ultimately cost a significant amount of credits, resources and manpower: having an existing government in place that already runs the planet is more efficient, if that government agrees to remain in place under the authority of the Major Faction. Thus, planets can remain autonomous while accepting control from a Major Faction. This is done through use of a Minor Faction.

Rules

• A Minor Faction may control a maximum of one planet, without appearing on the map

• If this planet is taken over by a Major Faction, the Major Faction must include the Minor Faction in the takeover.

• The Minor Faction may then maintain autonomous control over the planet, but agrees to be folded into the Major Faction as a vassal, and will provide the Major with access to all planetary facilities and resources that they would normally receive as if it were a conquered planet.

• If the planet is targeted by an invading Major Faction, both the Major Faction currently in control of the world and the Vassal Minor Faction must defend it, or cede it to the invader.

• Should the Minor Faction reject the rule of an existing Major Faction, a Rebellion must take place. If the Minor is successful, the planet is removed from the Major Faction's influence cloud, and the Minor has the option to become Major themselves. They may, however, retain autonomous Minor status.

Example

Take Commenor as an example. [member="Lady Kay"] is in charge of the planet as a Minor Faction, ruling it as Queen. Her faction don't plan to expand outwards, and are comfortable focusing on Commenor, so they rule it autonomously as a Minor.

The Galactic Alliance expand out towards Commenor, and decide to include it in their T3 Dominion for the entire hex. Because Commenor has an established Minor Faction, the GA must work with the Minor in their Dominion, either aggressively (via attack) or diplomatically (via negotiation). The two decide on a diplomatic route, and negotiate that Commenor will be folded into the Galactic Alliance. The Commenor Minor Faction becomes a Vassal.

Lady Kay continues to rule Commenor at the sufferance of the GA. The GA claims resources from Commenor, and may use it as a staging area for the sake of future Dominions. The planet becomes folded into their influence cloud on the map.

Later, the Mando'ade decide that Commenor looks good, and prepare to invade it. At this point, both the GA and Commenor Minor step up to defend it. The Mando are repelled, and the previous state of affairs continues.

The GA gets a new Faction Owner, who decides that monarchies are outdated, and tells Lady Kay that the GA will take over full governance of Commenor, and want her out. The Commenor Minor may either withdraw to a different world outside the GA's influence cloud, or they may choose to start a Rebellion, and claim formal control.

The Commenor Minor wins. They have the option to become Major, but reject this, and choose to remain as Minor, but in control of Commenor. The planet is removed from the GA's influence cloud, and becomes independent.

Any thoughts? Bear in mind: this is a 'rough draft', and nothing official. Just something some of us were kicking around.

 

[HK-36]

I would say take it a step further and allow Minor Factions with enough membership, 5 writers for example, have actual presence on the map, limited one for example contained within a single hex.

It would make the map a bit more cluttered, but it would also open up more possibilities for interstellar politics and actually in a way limit those minor factions who wish to partake in the map politics by giving them a visible mark where they could be found, make it harder for them to slip under the radar until rebellion if they want to cause trouble.

I believe it would also take away from the importance people put on Major Factions and their map presence by making it even easier to get on the map, since even if they couldn't keep up being a Major they can always go Minor and retain some presence on the map, and with less weight being put on the presence and prestige of being major it could potentially take away from the friction between some Major Factions and how defensive people get when the possibility of losing territory comes into play.

 

[Teynara Jeralyr]

[member="HK-36"]

I'd agree with you, but for one point: Minor Factions fail, and often. It's why Major Factions are required to exist for 30 days as a Minor before they go Major. It'd be a real headache if staff had to add them all to the map.

 

[Matreya]

I have always believed basically what is said, should be a thing. Too both of the opinions. Jon and we LotF made it a frequent thing to have minors that had influence, or writers in charge of planets, assist and be a part. But I also do believe that a map game should show more love to all powers and not just the largest. For example:

Look at a globe. There are countries smaller than a pinkie nail that show on the maps. Not because they are some massively powerful surface power, but because they are a power.

 

[Matreya]

[member="HK-36"]

I'd agree with you, but for one point: Minor Factions fail, and often. It's why Major Factions are required to exist for 30 days as a Minor before they go Major. It'd be a real headache if staff had to add them all to the map.

Offer limitations. A major needs 30, so ask for 20 days of activity. And on note of the map itself, I can imagine thay olden map makers who did the same simply to find a country toppled a month later most have hated it too XD

 

[Ria Misrani]

[member="Darth Pikiran"]

K, but let's be honest, the map PSD is friggin huge (I think last I heard it was 3 GBs? I could be wrong). I wouldn't want to put that on the administrative staff, we don't need them to be highlighted on the map per say. I feel minor factions could act more like City States do in Civilization V if anyone's played that, but I don't know if that's where you were going with it, @Tirdarius.

 

[Teynara Jeralyr]

[member="Darth Pikiran"]

K, but let's be honest, the map PSD is friggin huge (I think last I heard it was 3 GBs? I could be wrong). I wouldn't want to put that on the administrative staff, we don't need them to be highlighted on the map per say. I feel minor factions could act more like City States do in Civilization V if anyone's played that, but I don't know if that's where you were going with it, @Tirdarius.

That's exactly what I'm thinking. Hadn't considered that. If I had, this would have been a lot more concise.

 

[HK-36]

[member="Tirdarius"],

But for those that succeed it could be really beneficial for the storyline possibilities and the health of community, sure it would be a hassle on the staff but someone mentioned in that other suggestion thread Tef made about creating more auxilary staff positions like GMs, we could have special positions for keeping the map updated that would relief some pressure from more frequent changes.

Or change regulations that would show that the minor faction can keep up enough activity to be invested in the map presence, like a Tier 3 Dominion they would have to do anyway to get the hex, or quest storyline

Or just lower the member requirements for going Major to 5 or 6 to make more one hex factions like Commenor or Free Worlds possible

 

[Matreya]

[member="Ria Misrani"]

Tis true. However, as (I believe it was)Soeht said, there are methods too shrink it down incredibly in size. A lot of people look at projects and go yup. Thats what we got. But dont focus on other potentials for shrinkage.

Some times 3gb can be 400mb if shrunk down.

 

[Dax Perl]

Firstly, I think its a great idea to make Minor Factions more active in the map, granted, if that faction actually wants too. I imagine some would prefer to stay out of or simply don't care about the map game, but also I'm sure others do and what not. Point is, cool idea, definitely something to consider.

I do agree with [member="Darth Pikiran"] to some degree. Having Minor Factions as a presence on the map would be a bit of a hassle, but also extremely helpful, cause to be completely honest, there are tons of minor factions out there who may or may not lay claims to planets and we have no clue because they are not chronicled somewhere. By the very least I think we should compile a list of minor factions with a planetary holding. They submit a form saying 'hey we have this planet' and we make some kind of 'thread tracker' for lack of a better term so we can at least do a command + f for planets so we know if there is a faction there or not.

Following the 'diplomacy' side, I'm not sure how much this is done or considered and what not, but I think we should have more options than just Rebellions for when two factions dom a hex or whatever in close times. Maybe they can hammer out treaties or something? Just a suggestion to be followed in a separate thread.

[member="Tirdarius"]

 

[Teynara Jeralyr]

By the very least I think we should compile a list of minor factions with a planetary holding. They submit a form saying 'hey we have this planet' and we make some kind of 'thread tracker' for lack of a better term so we can at least do a command + f for planets so we know if there is a faction there or not.

Pretty much my thinking: we can't add them to the map, but there could definitely be a pinned list somewhere noting planets under Minor Faction control. Wouldn't be particularly hard to manage. And, honestly, I'd be willing to do all the map adjustments myself, but it's not just a matter of Photoshopping, but also uploading, and that's a whole bigger deal, so yeah, a list makes more sense.

Following the 'diplomacy' side, I'm not sure how much this is done or considered and what not, but I think we should have more options than just Rebellions for when two factions dom a hex or whatever in close times. Maybe they can hammer out treaties or something? Just a suggestion to be followed in a separate thread.

There's definitely a lot to cover in that respect: it'd need to be a huge change, but yeah, the idea of more options than just Invasion are something to look at. Planetary Exchanges, Resource Trades, Non-Aggression Pacts... there are lots of possible options, but those are going to take a lot of time to explore and work out.

 

[Kay-Larr]

The Commenor faction has already had plenty of threads regarding gaining allies, trade deals, business deals and the like long before we went Major, even months before we were a Minor faction. All that we have acquired has been through peaceful means and negotiations. Our decision to go Major was to protect all that we worked so hard for. Being Minor, your resources to protect yourself are limited and there is no guarantee that others would come to our aid. We could be vastly outnumbered and we wanted a fair shot. There were other reasons to go Major too, but the one I mentioed falls more in line with this discussion.

The cliff notes version is basically the rules that [member="Tirdarius"] pointed out:

¤A Minor Faction may control a maximum of one planet, without appearing on the map

¤If this planet is taken over by a Major Faction, the Major Faction must include the Minor Faction in the takeover.

¤The Minor Faction may then maintain autonomous control over the planet, but agrees to be folded into the Major Faction as a vassal, and will provide the Major with access to all planetary facilities and resources that they would normally receive as if it were a conquered planet.

¤If the planet is targeted by an invading Major Faction, both the Major Faction currently in control of the world and the Vassal Minor Faction must defend it, or cede it to the invader.

¤Should the Minor Faction reject the rule of an existing Major Faction, a Rebellion must take place. If the Minor is successful, the planet is removed from the Major Faction's influence cloud, and the Minor has the option to become Major themselves. They may, however, retain autonomous Minor status.


I contacted the known pc leaders of planets within our hex before we went Major as I felt that they should be part of the decision. I'd of wanted anyone to offer me the same courtesy. I'm a staunch believer in fair play, mapgame or not. Or maybe I'm just old fashioned...lol Been at this on and off for 18 years.

Hmm... Or maybe I'm just old....lol

 

[Darth Empyrean]

I actually like this alot. Kudos for making a rough draft at the very least, and apologies for not participating in the conversation when it came up.

Good work!

[member="Tirdarius"]

 

[Soeht]

The suggested Rules actually would potentially cause more head-ache and drama through the application/exploitation of exactly what's written.

A Minor Faction may control a maximum of one planet, without appearing on the map

Taking this to the extreme, a Hutt Cartel Minor Faction wouldn't be able to claim Nal Hutta and Nar Shaddaa. Even changing the term from "planet" to "system" could cause weirdness and actually weaken a Minor Faction.

An easy example: imagine that all the Sith Factions are gone again. There are many systems that Sith have an interest in. Yet if a Minor Faction was made with Sith, they coudn't lay claim to multiple planets without the tedious task of making many Faction pages.

Potential exploit: A Minor Faction (of one person) changes the claimed planet based on what a targeted Major Faction is/will Dominion (many Major Factions announce what the next Dominion will be prior to starting the thread), thus kicking off the chain of events leading to a Rebellion of even Tier 1 targets.

Unanswered question: What about planets within a Major Faction's sphere of influence?

Another unanswered question: What happens when TWO or more Minor Factions claim the same planet?

If this planet is taken over by a Major Faction, the Major Faction must include the Minor Faction in the takeover.

Couple immediate issues:

• Nearly everyone on this site is unaware of all Minor Factions have an interest on certain planets, especially since these planets aren't noted on the map.
• There is no notification process before or during this - which is a problem this Rule specifically solved between Major Factions and is now a problem for another set of groups.

Example: The Dominion #DomsBastion and finishes the Dominion and (in this example) doesn't know The Sith Ascendancy claims Bastion. They finish the Dominion and life goes on. There's been a Rule violation since the language of this suggestion uses "must" means that it is required that the Minor Faction gets involved, despite the difficulty of keeping track of hundreds of Minor Factions and what planets they claim.

The Minor Faction may then maintain autonomous control over the planet, but agrees to be folded into the Major Faction as a vassal, and will provide the Major with access to all planetary facilities and resources that they would normally receive as if it were a conquered planet.

Unnecessary and STIFLES KREATIVITAY.

• This is already possible and doesn't solve a problem (A Rule defining Subfactions exists).
• Confederations or any Faction with highly autonomous subfactions aren't compatible with this requirement.
• A Minor Faction that changes their mind or decides to start a roleplay closing off the planet is in violation of this Rule, as written literally.

If the planet is targeted by an invading Major Faction, both the Major Faction currently in control of the world and the Vassal Minor Faction must defend it, or cede it to the invader.

Again, unnecessary and STIFLES KREATIVITAY.

• Again, this is already possible and doesn't solve a problem (A Subfaction interested in fighting for their Major Faction overlords will join the Major Faction page)
• A Minor Faction that decides to betray their Major Faction overlord is in violation of this Rule, as written literally, and the planet is automatically ceded.
• A Minor Faction that doesn't join the Invasion is in violation of this Rule, as written literally, and the planet is automatically ceded.

Really for the last two bullet points, they're in violation of this: I believe a rule should either solve a problem or create a possibility not possible beforehand. The last two don't solve existing problems, yet they end up closing off possibilities if these Rules are interpreted literally (which, they will, given enough time).

Should the Minor Faction reject the rule of an existing Major Faction, a Rebellion must take place. If the Minor is successful, the planet is removed from the Major Faction's influence cloud, and the Minor has the option to become Major themselves. They may, however, retain autonomous Minor status.

Again, the use of "must" creates issues.

• A Minor Faction that rejects the rule of a Major Faction ruling their planet can't just be a resistance group if they don't want to start a Rebellion.

And a potential exploit: As mentioned earlier, a single person could create their own Minor Faction, claim a planet subject to a Tier 1 Dominion (or soon to be), and trigger a Rebellion - thus allowing for an adversarial Major Faction to join in - without that single person even posting in the Tier 1 Dominion. Situations as pointed out in a recent thread would be super easy.

I understand this is a rough draft and I definitely think Factions could be retooled (at least, the Rules need to be rewritten), but I'm struggling to identify the problems this is trying to solve. The "broader play" promised isn't provided in this rough draft beyond Tier 1 Dominions being possible Rebellion targets - and it's restrictive in areas outside that.

 

[Olivia Dem'adas]

*plants Alor'e Council flag on Mandalore*

 

[Zef Halo]

[member="Olivia Dem'adas"]

Fitting to put a corpse on a grave world.

 

[Mishka Larraq]

[member="Vitor Avendahl"]

*Definitely keeps farm on dead world*

Mandalorians... Redefining stubborn.

 

[Poe]

I like this idea. Not only does it allow for Minor Factions to have a significant role in the galaxy, and to work alongside a Major Faction such as Dominions; but in the event of Invasions this may eliminate the need for Major Factions to host ally-sign ups since they have an entire Minor Faction roster of allies already. This alone could prevent people from signing-up just to stick it to another Faction, thus preventing further bad blood from brewing.

The only issue I have is the whole Rebellion angle. If said Major Faction owner and Minor Faction owner have a falling out for whatever reason, this could trigger a Rebellion not out of story but out of heated emotions. If there was a way to write a rule or stipulation to prevent the latter, I say this could absolutely be fun and entertaining from a story perspective.