Not All Are Over Powered

[Ignatius]

Over the past years that the site has had a factory, we have had banned and restricted items. Over these years, items have been added, removed, as well as completely removed all together. So, with the mind set of the possibility of change, here is what I propose.

We loosen the amount of banned items we have access too.

Now before we start grabbing pitchforks and torches, let me explain. There are many weapons, tools, and technologies that are banned due to their clear use of being a powerful weapon, and only as a powerful weapon. Such things as the very well known Deathstar, or the Silencer are banned due to the raw power that these weapons have. Another rule is that we are not allowed to destroy or drastically change a planet without admin approval. As such, that takes out weapons such as Neutron bomb, Deathstar(again), etc.

These weapons will always be banned. These are not what I am looking at.

For instance. During the time of the Je'daii and the Infinite Empire, There were two major forces facing one another. The Je'daii, and the Rataka. Currently, ALL Rataka technology is banned. Nothing of their technology *other than Holocrons* are allowed to be used. That includes items like Forcesabers, Power Cores, None of their various droids, We cannot access their vaults, etc.

I reference these buggers because we DO have access to the Je'daii Temples, holocrons, Force-imbued Swords, and much more. Yet they took place in the same time. Of course any and all superweapons that the Rataka have cannot be used, but a simple forcesaber, essentially a lightsaber with the presence of the force as a small nexus, or artifact is banned. To me, it makes very little sense. We have a factory that requires anything that is considered a Nexus, this would include the forcesaber, to be completed in order to get said weapon. The factory already is a well oiled machine that works constant at improving itself.

Here is my Suggestion. We take a bit of time to look through banned technology, determine if there is a possibility to be balanced for the Star Wars Chaos use, and then list them as a restricted item, instead of a banned one.

Now, I am sure that I may have forgotten some views, or points to make. I know that because these items are banned, they will likely stay that way. I just want to bring this forward for more chances to create unique and new items. As well as have more fun on here on this site.

As of this moment, because there is so much technology that could potentially be un-banned, I can't list them all. Because of this, I have decided to at the moment, not create objectives other than, "Discover/create said item." So if anyone has any ideas, contradicting or similar view points of myself, let me know.

TL;DR: I wanna un-ban some stuff and put it onto the restricted list because not everything on that list is Over Powered.

 

[Marina DeVoe]

I'm so glad someone brought something like this up, as I feel i'm too new here to request some changes.

I can't seem to currently locate the banned technology that I had read here a few days ago when I was getting the feel of this board.
But I believe I had read that nanotechnology was restricted or banned.
I wish to un-ban it and have it available on an approved basis.

I request this as my other alts (which I plan on bringing here to this board at some time) have such tech available and have developed it for medical use only. They have never used it to hold one hostage or manipulated the nanobots to harm the individuals.
Personally, I have been writing (in other alts) about nano tech in the SW Universe for many years now. Writers that know me here can attest to the fact that I never have used anything to god-mode, but keep it near real.

Making this short: I request to un-ban nano tech and have it available for approval (reviewed by Administrators) and allowed its use on a limited basis.

 

[Audren Sykes]

I can't seem to currently locate the banned technology that I had read here a few days ago when I was getting the feel of this board.

Link

[member="Marina DeVoe"]

 

[Sanya Val Lerium]

[member="Marina DeVoe"] nano tech was banned for the reason people began to start using them to become immortal. We are not talking about never aging but also bodies been able to repair themselves infinitely.

There was many others similar to the over powered level as this. That is why nanobots are banned and I stand by my vote as a judge at the time that it should remained banned.

 

[Marina DeVoe]

Ah, thank you Audren and thank you for your input also, Sanya.

I never wrote or used it as you state it, but used it for other medical reasons, very much like prescription drugs were developed for. Only instead of being dependent on chemicals, the nanos would help the body with specific tasks like say, keeping the right production of insulin produced, based on the body's own chemistry..etc..etc...

Like I said, I hope it will be un-banned and only allowed as per review as the writer presents it to board Administrators.

 

[Ignatius]

[member="Sanya Val Swift"], As with force artifacts, you are required to mention that if it increases the force, it cannot do so indefinitely or infinitival. As such, if nanobots were allowed to be a restricted item, then they will be required to have that as well. If it is reported by someone as being over powered, then it can be thrown back to be looked at, nerffed, or denied.

Innocent until proven guilty.

 

[Sanya Val Lerium]

[member="Ignis Imura"] it was innocent till proven guilty that is why its where it belongs

 

[Ras'kala'han]

I totally support the idea of Rakata technology and Nanotechnology being re-allowed under restriction. Then again, I'd go further and say we could do the same for Kwa and Gree technology under approval basis, with admin oversight.

Abuse certainly isn't inherent to the types of stories people want to tell, so why limit it if someone wants to, say, travel through a Hypergate on Asation or have their character get trapped in a Rakata Mind Prison?

 

[Kurayami Bloodborn]

Part of my issue with the banning of nanotechnology is that we already mass produce many products that utilize nanotech in production. A normal computer processor of the latest generation has a bus width of about 14 nanometers. Yet on this board we cannot utilize nanotech because of abuse long ago. Not to mention we can create quantum computers on the board. Seems a bit backwards to me. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Mythos]

Hypergates Should be Unbanned! Hypergates are Awesome and cool and should be super duper hard to get

 

[Jsc]

I wanna un-ban some stuff and put it onto the restricted list because not everything on that list is Over Powered.

Nah. It's all OP. And less OP is better than all OP and no OP.

Accept the list. Walk around it. Achieve your writing in new and empowering ways, and grow from it.

 

[Ignatius]

[member="Sahnath"], the one problem I have with the gree, is that their technology is listed as being eons ahead of the galaxy. Meaning their technology could potentially do *anything* which can in some cases be very much over powered.

If the gree was passed off as restricted, then I would really like to see a much harder process of getting said technology. Because currently, gree are *wiped* from the galaxy due to the gulag plaque. So the person would need to discover it, find said technology, then recreate it. Then at best be limited in production.

However, I am open to any and all potential changes. Considering the site allows insta-master. Why not a little bit more wild west thrown into it?

 

[Ignatius]

Double post. Sorry guys.

 

[Marina DeVoe]

Yes, I thought I read here some where that anyone can come in as a Master or Lord. I do find that a bit hard to believe, as those ranks everywhere had to be earned by writing. It's so easy for a newbie to come in, think his/herself a god and just play havoc on RPs.
The only exception would be a known writer or any writers that can link those promotions to boards...or even have other members here vouching that those writers have/had achieved those ranks by merit.

Anyway, if there were people or individuals god-moding with superpowers, then they, not everyone, should be disciplined.

PS... Just to be clear: I'm in no way against new writers coming in as Masters or Lords. I'm just stating that I never encountered that before.

 

[Eralam]

In most cases, items that are banned or restricted earned their place on said lists because of one of two things: it was immensely overpowered, or someone did something to bring earn it a spot on that list.

A prime example of the latter is nanotechnology. It was roundly abused in a number of creative ways. Yes, it's a broad field with a number of real life uses, but that very versatility makes it nearly impossible to police on a case by case basis. When something like that becomes a catchall for "this is a stupid thing that I want to do because tiny robots", one can hardly blame the admin for wanting to be done with it.

Bear in mind, I by no means speak for the admin, but having been one on a different site a long time ago, I can sympathize. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and from what I gather, nanotech was ridiculously squeaky. If they've banned something outright rather than restricting, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that it was cutting into time best spent on other tasks more fruitful than the handling of reports and complaints dealing with the tech in question.

 

[Jak Sandrow]

Codex and Factory judges are not the police. Neither are RPJs or Admin. When deciding whether or not to allow some tech, they can't pore through literally everything your character has done, wants to do, and will do in the future, then assess based on some arbitrary morality system whether or not you as a writer will abuse said item. And then multiply that by the nigh-HUNDREDS of submissions per month. This is not a full-time job for these people, this is entirely voluntary work.

What is currently banned (nanos, Rakata, hypergates, etc) is banned for very, very good reasons. If there were to be effort put into retracting those bans, there would need to be serious debate and deliberation, because that can open up a Pandora's box this site is not ready for.

Are nanos etc cool? Oh absolutely they're cool. Are they entirely necessary? Oh absolutely they're not.

There are so many alternatives. We're given so much freedom, there's no real reason to want to ask for the one (or three) things they've said we explicitly CAN'T have.

 

[Ignatius]

[member="Marina DeVoe"], We are talking about banned items. The reason I brought up the ability for anyone to be a Master as a "Wild West" of a whirlwind of powerful people,or in essense, the name of the site is real. This place could be completely filled with Chaos. However, the determination of a person can or cannot be a master is a talk for another time. This thread is about banned items being allowed.

[member="Jak Sandrow"], Let me reiterate what I have stated before. Not sure if you got the main idea.

I am bringing up this discussion to be available for any and all possible options to become restricted instead of banned. HOWEVER! Clearly, items such as star destroyers, Items that go against the factory size limits *for some ships* or items that give invincibility, or immortality are banned. They ALWAYS will be banned. The items like a forcesaber, where you can LITERALLY create one in the factory, but we cannot officially call it a "Forcesaber" simply because it is rataka technology.

Added to this, there can be limitations set upon items like Nanotech that can only be used for "Minor healing improvements." So that there is no chance they could be used to make the person heal stupid fast and be quite literally Star Wars version of Wolverine. This thread is the discussion you are talking about. Tefka has stated in the past that suggestions of the site are taken very seriously and if enough people voice their opinion in good faith of the subject, then the Admins, RPJ's and whatever else will talk about it. This site runs on communication, and if the "normal" writers, and the staff of the site work together, then it can be a better place. Even if it is as chaotic as Star Wars Canon.

Another point to bring up. If we cannot have Rataka technology, then why are we allowed to have Vong technology when so many applications of it are Force dead, Anti-force user, and Anti-Lightsaber? Most of the Rataka technology that was created are droids that can easily be destroyed, Ships that if used, have to be limited in production, and use, and if they are over 1km, then you can't use them in a minor faction, and barely can use it in a major faction to begin with.

The site almost runs itself! If something is approved, and then later reported, then JUST THAT ITEM, will have to be reworked. If there are a bunch of reports of various people using the same tech and all of them using it in OP ways, then the item can be nerfed into the ground, or have a harder restriction to those who can get those items. There are more options than the Banhammer. I am trying to find those options. Thus, this discussion is what I am wanting to create. Get the opinions of others, and to compare and contrast my own, with those who agree, or disagree with me.

[member="Jay Scott Clark"], Care to explain why you think so? I really do want opinions on why this should or shouldn't go through. By volition of your own words,

Achieve your writing in new and empowering ways, and grow from it.

You can do the same with discovering technology no matter where it comes from. Creating a Force saber is much like creating a special lightsaber (like the one I linked above) only the name itself is banned. Or using the Energy Core linked in my first post be a large battery that can power a ship, or an entire base. Of course these things will have weaknesses to match. I want to find those weaknesses. So your short but sweet answer doesn't really help me with that.

 

[Eralam]

The site almost runs itself!

The perception that the site almost runs itself is flattering, I'm sure, but it simply doesn't line up with reality. Even when things seem relatively quiet, there are a dozen things going on in the background, whether or not the general public is aware of them. That they go generally unnoticed is a good thing; an admin team that's too hands on can choke the life out of an RP site. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. But even a relatively small part of the site, like the Factory, is constantly busy behind the scenes.

The amount of work that goes into approving even a simple submission is not insignificant. Take, for instance, a custom lightsaber. The judge that reviews it has three tasks: make sure it follows the formatting instructions (correct template use, images, sources, materials and technology are properly sourced, dimensions are in metric, etc), make sure it operates within the acceptable logic (does it operate like a standard lightsaber, and if not are the modifications logical within the limits of either Star Wars, Chaos canon, or RL tech), and make sure it's balanced for use in RP (strengths have corresponding weaknesses, doesn't have anything hidden that might negate a weakness, doesn't have straight up strengths hidden in the special features/description).

In the time it took to write that, an experienced judge might be able to look over a dead simple submission and determine whether or not it meets the standard. If it does, then they pass it up for review to either an RPJ or Factory admin, who goes through the same process yet again. The more complicated or problematic the submission, the longer it takes to review. Some submissions can take days to go through properly, and then the poor soul who has to give final approval has to go through it all again.

This is not a simple process. This is not an easy process. It is, however, one that a Factory Judge can reasonably expect to go through several times a week, if not day. Codex Judges have a similar process, only there's is typically even lengthier, because the average Codex submission is a lot wordier than the average tech submission.

Meanwhile, there are usually several concurrent discussions about ways to improve the functionality of the Factory going on in the background. Oh, and despite all this, the judges still have to find time to write and have fun.

Now take that workload, raise the stakes by an order of magnitude, make it twice as thankless, and increase the chances of someone having a meltdown because they feel personally slighted by every little thing you do by about 3000%. That's what it's like to be an admin on just about any site with a sizable playerbase. I may or may not have guessed right for Chaos, but I can promise that running the site on a day to day basis isn't nearly as easy as it looks.

If something is approved, and then later reported, then JUST THAT ITEM, will have to be reworked. If there are a bunch of reports of various people using the same tech and all of them using it in OP ways, then the item can be nerfed into the ground, or have a harder restriction to those who can get those items.

That is, in most cases, the preferred approach. Take alchemy for instance. It got to the point where just about every other submission incorporated alchemy, often in breathtakingly stupid ways. I mean, really, seriously godawful ways. I used to dread logging in for fear that someone had come up with an alchemized toilet seat cover or some such. It was enough of a problem that we started brainstorming and discussing ways to fix said problem. That's how alchemy ended up on the RM list in the first place.

In comparison to the rest of the SWRP world, Chaos offers an amazing amount of freedom. If an item ends up being banned completely, that should give you an idea of just how thoroughly problematic it was. With a few obvious no-brainers like quantum-crystalline armor or superweapons, nothing on the ban list is there because someone had a fit of pique. The stuff on that list earned their places through the hard work and dedication of the people who are bound and determined to be the reason we can't have nice things, to the point that there was no other option than to say screw it, we're not dealing with this anymore.

 

[Ignatius]

[member="Eralam"], I have been a Factory judge before. I know the process and how difficult, and how long it can take. I joined the site april of 2013....

However, your points are valid. The process in which items can be approved can take a while. I also know that for this discussion, I am not holding my breath, or even thinking this would be remotely possible. I hope that there can be some changes, at the same time, I doubt there will be change due to the process you brought forward and to the attention of many people. If change does take place, I do not expect it to happen over night, nor any time soon. Months or even years from now? maybe.

I also said that the site "almost" as in if there is something clearly OP, and clearly wrong, then it will be looked into. Much like when someone creates a brand new Master character. If they are good, then they will be rewarded with more threads, more chances to grow, and so forth. But if they are bad, if they are poor, and do not follow the rules, then they will fall away in time.

Same as with the factory. If someone keeps making stuff that can't be approved or match to what they want because it clearly is against the rules of the site, then eventually they should get the hint to knock it down a few pegs, or to stop all together. I am not saying the site is perfect. It is far from that.

However, the idea stays the same.

I would like to see some changes to this list. Whatever it is, and whatever extent it is at, I will be more than happy with. Even if nothing is unbanned, I will still be happy and understanding of the views of the staff, and others. The site is discussing the pros and cons of this topic. Which means that voices are heard, and considered.

That is all I want.

 

[Jsc]

Care to explain why you think so?

Nah. Don't worry about it.

Run with it. You do you.