Make all LR armor or Armor of certain class require a Dev Thread

[Rekali the Hutt]

So initially the Restricted Materials list was put up because everyone and their mother was putting up phrik/cortosis/beskar armor, and I won't say it stopped that but it has made for more interesting plots and developments, also allowing certain worlds to be coveted, conquered, and defended. Which is all wonderful. I enjoy reading a good raid on both sides of the equation.

However there's also been some other side effects. Members have gone out and found more and more new ways to create LR armor while avoiding restricted requirements. Some of these people put in dev threads anyways because they're just fun or they just wanted to do something. Others however, have not. Offhand the old One Sith made several Yuuzhan Vong submissions that covered not only their PC's, but also NPC's. Users have thrown in things like Orbalisks, Wintrium, Tikulin Leather, any number of player made Sithspawn hides, etc.

I think after a certain armor class all armor should have a dev thread. Around 9, maybe 8 resistance to something. You simply don't make a piece of armor of that quality without exceptional materials and mastercraft ability with said material. It's the pinnacle of specialization against a form of damage. An average fireman's suit might have a 7 against fire, but it's not a masterwork of engineering and craftsmanship that would be considered the best full stop.

The cost and effort of having a Lightsaber resistant or very damage resistant armor should be shown in production(as it usually is) and development. All of these new materials and hides that have popped up are rare and exotic, often having one or a few canon examples of use. They should be considered hard to find, and often not common knowledge in the first place. Furthermore I believe every eol sha fireworm scale armor that passes without development is a slap in the face to an individual that participates in a phrik raid to get his/her own armor.

I love the factory, and I love making toys, but I think every toy should have a good story. Why not make it clear that good stuff requires a good story, and not obscure wookieepedia scrolling?

 

[Jairus Starvald]

I don't disagree with this, but doesn't the factory already require dev threads for any functional lightsaber resistance?

 

[Jamie Pyne]

doesn't the factory already require dev threads for any functional lightsaber resistance?

No.

 

[Rekali the Hutt]

[member="Cerita Sarova"]

I've seen class 10 Saber armor pass without dev as recent as a month ago. Granted it wasn't full covering and it didn't have much in the way of physical protection, but it was class 10 saber/blaster resistance.

 

[Garza]

One question... Why has this not be done yet.

 

[Kami Meran]

got to say i agree thus my willingness to drop metals ect but the shear amount to FU's on the sight... i'm getting that void stone THE or not.
id say put a numbers restriction on them too.

 

[Isamu Baelor]

Sounds like an attempt to make something a pain, for the sake of making it a pain.

To my knowledge, the no-dev lightsaber-resistant materials haven't been a problem in the community.

So if they haven't been a problem, why try to up-end the factory, and make it a more frustrating experience?

 

[Rekali the Hutt]

[member="Kami Meran"]

I think the Factory staff has done a very good job in asking for sensible production levels(as well as in general), but I don't think it's feasible for them to know every lightsaber resistant material off the top of their heads, and I'd prefer them and higher staff not have to juggle making a new restriction for every new material someone finds. I know one occasion where a certain LR material was reported, a new condition was made as it was added to the restricted material list. I'd rather us not go through that for every LR material in canon, approved through the factory, and approved through the codex(hides).

[member="Isamu Baelor"]

How is giving people more incentive to write and less incentive to scroll wookiepedia a hassle for the community?

 

[Netherworld]

[member="Isamu Baelor"]

If you consider dev threads a pain, then maybe the problem is your attitude, rather than the required work. If you take the two things and remove any previous experience, it makes sense to require the same(ish) amount of work for the same(ish) effect. If person A puts the work in to have their snazzy phrik armor, but person B digs up some obscure EU lore and uses that instead, they end up wearing the (sameish) level of protection without putting in the same amount of work.

Leveling the field with something as simple as 'armors of class x and upwards will require basic dev' seems fair to everyone involved. Regarded purely from an IC perspective, getting that fancy an armor set for your character (or having your company make it limited production or whatever) should be an awesome achievement and a really important milestone. If you forget the meta knowledge about the comparatively large amounts of LR equipment in the Factory and just put yourself into the shoes of some random galactic citizen, that piece of armor is probably the best thing since sliced bread.

So just assume your character's in-universe perspective on that when you set up your 'painful' thread, and it'll turn out loads better.

 

[Gray Raxis]

[member="Rekali the Hutt"]

Honestly I completely agree with your suggestion. My company has 1 item that uses phrik and is minor, but I put 40 posts into obtaining the phrik for it. The armor itself too outside of the phrik is fairly simple so could get away without needing further dev, but I can see how I would be upset if someone made something equivalent to my armor without dev at a higher production level. That would be frustrating because of the amount of time and work me and those in the dev thread with me put into it.

As far as the hides and stuff goes, I don't understand how that wasn't already on the restricted materials list. I would assume you would need to do a dev thread of hunting the creature or obtaining it from a hunter to use it. At least that is how I would have handled it, but I enjoy the story aspect of a dev thread. Lots of interesting ways to obtain those restricted materials after all. And I even have a character that is a huntsman, so making it require dev would actually add a viable way for him to make credits by obtaining it then selling it via auction as I might phrik or cortosis with Gray here.

 

[sabrina]

To be honest my opinion is, we have judges to decide what needs a dev thread and what does not, and rpj or admin to backup or correct them, on that point, I don't see any reason for it change, as the system works.
Also at the end of it Armour while fun to make is merely fluff, as you either take a hit or don't, no matter how poor your armour is, if you're not willing to take a hit, you find away around it.

 

[Isamu Baelor]

[member="Rekali the Hutt"]

How is giving people more incentive to write and less incentive to scroll wookiepedia a hassle for the community?

It's not so much giving an incentive to write, as it is erecting an additional barrier.

Assuming the dev requirements would be similar to that of current LR materials, I think it would get pretty mind-numbing to constantly be doing a mining operation, or raid, or what have you.

Now, If there were an issue in the community with members trying to pass off their lower-end LR armor to be as effective as the high-tier armor, then I would agree with you.

It just feels like you're trying to preemptively end a problem that, well, isn't a problem.

[member="Netherworld"]

If you consider dev threads a pain, then maybe the problem is your attitude

Did I hit a sore spot? Oh my.

Maybe I'd just prefer to spend my posting time on non-dev story threads. Shocking, I know.

getting that fancy an armor set for your character should be an awesome achievement and a really important milestone.

Depends entirely on the character. So let's not try and tell everyone how their characters should act, m'kay?

 

[Rekali the Hutt]

It's not so much giving an incentive to write, as it is erecting an additional barrier.

Assuming the dev requirements would be similar to that of current LR materials, I think it would get pretty mind-numbing to constantly be doing a mining operation, or raid, or what have you.

The fun you have in any thread is dependent on your story-telling and the story telling of your partners. I've had fun mining, playing tag, farming, drinking, hunting. Furthermore no one is asking for more series of complex rules for each and every lightsaber resistant materials. Just a blanket statement that says

"Development is needed for Lightsaber resistant armor."

A dev thread can be literally anything you can say help you obtained an item. Maybe you know a Yuuzhan Vong crimelord and wipe out her competitor and he gives you crab armor. Maybe you give generous donation to a prestiguous zoo and they give you some Eol Sha Fireworm scales. The only thing limiting what can be a dev thread is your own imagination.

Maybe I'd just prefer to spend my posting time on non-dev story threads. Shocking, I know.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

There is something wrong with assumes you deserve the same thing as someone who's put in more work than you at something.

The Factory is optional. No one is requiring you to have lightsaber resistant armor. Hell, over 90% of Canon Mandalorian's had durasteel beskar'gams. Beskar was treasured to the point where supercommandos were really the only ones who got it in good numbers. Boba Frakking Fett used durasteel armor. Not one character needs LR armor.

But if someone wants it, they should put in just as much effort as the ones who did before them.

 

[Isamu Baelor]

[member="Rekali the Hutt"]

There is something wrong with assumes you deserve the same thing as someone who's put in more work than you at something.

Except something like duraplast armor is not the same thing as a phrik armor.

You're not going to get away trying to tank a lightsaber hit with duraplast, like you would with Phrik. If you tried, you'd likely get reported.

 

[Ellie Mors]

[member="Cerita Sarova"]
I've seen class 10 Saber armor pass without dev as recent as a month ago. Granted it wasn't full covering and it didn't have much in the way of physical protection, but it was class 10 saber/blaster resistance.

Link?

 

[Cato Fett]

You're not going to get away trying to tank a lightsaber hit with duraplast, like you would with Phrik. If you tried, you'd likely get reported.

Except:

Duraplast was also used in armor, such as Katarn-class commando armor and variants of Mandalorian armor, and was capable of offering protection up to light grenades, Verpine shatter gun rounds, medium slugs, and light laser cannon rounds. Duraplast could also be reinforced to be extremely resistant to EMP and ion cannon warfare. Duraplast also offered very strong protection against lightsabers.

Link

You probably could.

 

[Rekali the Hutt]

What about Hijarna Stone? Zillo Beast Hide? Wintrium? Vonduun Skerr Kyrric is admittedly less of a problem with the VT disruptor lense but they're pretty sturdy otherwise. User made things like Greater Calama Shell or Sasaori Mesh?

I'm not talking about the little stuff like Armorweave.

[member="Lily Kuhn"]

I'm on the phone right now, but it was about three weeks ago and one of your approvals.

 

[Isamu Baelor]

[member="Cato Fett"]

I've seen people translate that to taking 2-3 directs hits.

but you could also have Duranium armor, which is a lightsaber-resistant material, but isn't going to come close to offering the protection of phrik.

But anyway, my point is that there are tiers to LR materials, and trying to imply that they're all equivalent is disingenuous.

[member="Rekali the Hutt"]

Your topic title:

"Make all LR armor... require a dev thread"

If all you're talking about is adding a few new materials to the restricted list, I can get behind that.

But your title say make all LR armor require a dev thread. And as said, there are different tiers of LR materials, with a large gap between the effectiveness of each.

A duranium armor set would not even come close to matching that of a phrik set, and shouldn't be lumped into the same group.

I've seen class 10 Saber armor pass without dev as recent as a month ago. Granted it wasn't full covering and it didn't have much in the way of physical protection, but it was class 10 saber/blaster resistance.

I've seen some absurd stuff get ok'd in the factory. Chances are that was one of those occasions.

The advice I got from a RPJ was to report that person, if they tried to abuse that armor in posts.

So *shrug*

That's not a common occurrence, and there are checks and balances for it.

 

[Cato Fett]

[member="Isamu Baelor"]

But anyway, my point is that there are tiers to LR materials, and trying to imply that they're all equivalent is disingenuous.

Something [member="Rekali the Hutt"] already addressed:

I think after a certain armor class all armor should have a dev thread. Around 9, maybe 8 resistance to something.

 

[Matreya]

I agree with this, in theory.

I believe that a result of production should be met, equating to the work put in, with past work as well.

A prime example, being this:
Merr-Sonn, my company, at one point began making a Mass Produced alchemy item, containing Uller Bone. Recently, after PC sales etc, I have dropped another sub with the same alch added. Immediately I also made sure to note, that logically at this point, that item should not need dev for that effect. Logically, the "workers" now know easily how to do what is done, and the only major limiting factor is worker numbers, hours, etc.


That being said, if someone has no precedent of this item, ie Hides, alch materials, they need at least some dev.

Also with my metals recently subbed, the primary is basically on par with impure Phrik, but made at minor, with potential for Mass should it be done right. Does that mean off the bat anyone should be able to use either? No. Especially considering the steps to make the latter.

As is, I do feel certain things, like that, company specific materials, need to be deved for use.

Hence leading to, yes. I agree. Work put in should balance out the class able to be reached, ormaterials used.