Invasion Rules Update: Stalling

[Tathra Khaeus]

Gotta be honest I think Rule 4 (respect) is very poorly adhered to and could use some reinforcing. Examples being the endless toxicity and drama as of late.

More focus there, less here. This is a waste of time.

 

[Kurayami Bloodborn]

Stalling as defined in this rule could be seen as a breach of rule 4(respect), due to the fact that you are intentionally not posting in order to make the other faction pick up the slack while still having to waste time waiting for posts. They can't push ahead and finish the 100 post limit unless they wait 24 hours after each post to avoid stampeding, or the possible appearance of it. Besides, if the faction who invokes this rule is found to have no backing to their claim it hurts them when the invasion finishes as that would be taken into consideration during judgement.

 

[Tathra Khaeus]

[member="Kurayami Bloodborn"]

There are far more currently prevalent forms of disrespect or lack of consideration for others going on that are much more of a problem than people refusing to post.

Especially when this was primarily made in reaction to exhausted writers who currently aren't being given a breather.

 

[LT-137]

Participation in Invasions isn't mandatory, and no one is forcing people to post. If people are not interested in taking part in a thread - with whatever prefix it may have - they don't have too. If their faction looks down on them because of their choice, then perhaps they're in the wrong faction.

If you willingly choose to defend your faction's territory and participate in the Invasion - but decide to take the route mentioned in the previous posts of this thread - then there should be a penalty for those actions. Just as there is a penalty for Invaders leaving the Defenders without a chance to reply (See: Stampeding) there should be a rule in place that deals with the opposite.

While I can agree that the timing is suspect, this merely rounds out the Invasion ruleset to cover a multitude of scenarios. If a faction doesn't want to fight in an Invasion, they're welcome to concede the hex to their attackers, or forfeit it by not meeting the required writers within the opening 72 hour timeslot.

Just my two cents on the matter, as it seems things are starting to get circular.

 

[Kurayami Bloodborn]

[member="Tathra Khaeus"]

We had multiple threads where many in the community agreed that there are problems. Those problems are based heavily in the reactions of others and in the amount of what is considered acceptable use of knowledge. One of which you can't regulate, and the other is a cornerstone of RP which only becomes a problem when abused.

 

[Tathra Khaeus]

[member="Kurayami Bloodborn"]

Not just talking about metagaming, rather the timing of invasions but also overall treatment of each other outside the game. Chaos isn't a fun plan for a lot of people right now and its more to do with social mentality than rp relevant stuff.

 

[Captain Larraq]

Stalling as defined in this rule could be seen as a breach of rule 4(respect), due to the fact that you are intentionally not posting in order to make the other faction pick up the slack while still having to waste time waiting for posts. They can't push ahead and finish the 100 post limit unless they wait 24 hours after each post to avoid stampeding, or the possible appearance of it. Besides, if the faction who invokes this rule is found to have no backing to their claim it hurts them when the invasion finishes as that would be taken into consideration during judgement.

You're assuming that their intent is to force the other faction to pick up slack. You typically wouldn't be able to tell the difference between general disinterest and straight up gaming the system just by reading posts on SWChaos. If the concern is that you think it's unfair to "force" one side to try and push for 100 posts in 2 weeks, then there are two easy solutions to the problem. Reduce the 100 post minimum standard to 50 posts, or allow the faction that's cranking out posts hit up an RPJ and ask to have the duration of the thread extended for another 2 weeks so that they can finish the thread at a reasonable pace.

Either option would solve the underlining problem without assuming that the slow-posting faction is being disrespectful.

 

[WolfMortum]

[member="Kurayami Bloodborn"]

Not just talking about metagaming, rather the timing of invasions but also overall treatment of each other outside the game. Chaos isn't a fun plan for a lot of people right now and its more to do with social mentality than rp relevant stuff.

Like you, I realize these are issues on-going with Chaos at the moment. I do however feel that they come down to the opinions, behaviors and attitudes of writers and their chosen factions; I don't believe this is something the Site Admin can change without crossing that moral line of dictating and restricting the freedom of individual writers. I would love it if we could bring everyone closer together and get rid of a lot of the out-of-character drama's we're faced with, but that's the responsibility of faction administrators watching over their members and the individual writers/players who may be at fault of questionable behavior.

 

[Ellie Mors]

Not just talking about metagaming, rather the timing of invasions but also overall treatment of each other outside the game. Chaos isn't a fun plan for a lot of people right now and its more to do with social mentality than rp relevant stuff.

Invasion criteria are the criteria for judging the invasion, and only look at stuff happening inside of the invasion, except for public displays of bad behavior. Whether you, I, or staff thinks that a faction is being pushed by invasions is irrelevant to how an invasion is judged. The drama criterion does not get to be used to say "this faction is trying to wear out the other faction".

That being said, I don't really get the point of adding this rule considering it's directly referred to in the Participation criteria. This was a subject specifically brought up when the rule-set was being discussed before. If a faction has made their 100 posts and had their required members (unique writers) post by the given time limits, this seems like nothing more than an extra hoop to jump through so they can keep an invasion going. If a faction stalls for time, I don't see how 100 posts can be met by the end of a two week invasion (or whatever the theoretically agreed upon limit would end up being), and I don't see how this is an issue for the invading faction (or defending, I guess, in the theoretical event of the opposite occurring). I would think the role-play judges or admin reviewing the invasion can assess that one faction was largely absent and award the other faction the victory, given that's actually in the judgement criteria.

At the end of the day, though, I don't see how this rule would effect any average faction - I just don't see it as necessary given the numerous check boxes already set in place for factions that would presume to attempt to stall for a default win, although I also don't see this as an actual issue aside from my perception that this is just redundancy to show factions that there's a guaranteed win against a faction that somehow manage to provide 100 posts but barely so.

 

[Tefka]

We've got two new administrators that just joined our team and are looking to give us their input. With that said, their introduction will slow things down a bit. This was one of the last rulings decided on before their introduction. Now that they're here, once we regain our footing, we've all agreed that reducing the minimum post count is a likely contender for debate.

Valiens wants to test the waters before more Invasions get thrown down so we don't interrupt further, and I agree with his process. Keep the feedback coming, we're reading and will be discussing.

 

[Ryan]

I say slow the map game down a notch. I don't know one goes about it, but if each Invasion needs an investment of two weeks then a faction that is getting doggypiled really does not have time for other stories. Doggypiles/ Coalitions are just part of life and war, but has to be a way to ease the burn out rate. The mentality of wanting to wipe a faction off the map to me is very OOC aggressive and not conducive for OOC relations. Countermands that whole be respectful to your fellow writer and sprinkles the salt along with diminishing the retention rate of this site.

 

[LT-137]

[member="Ryan"] - Every gripe you've brought up has a solution already in place. Thanks to the updated Faction mandates, there's even a mandate that a faction can choose that protects them from dogpiles and coalitions.

[Source]​

If your faction hasn't chosen this mandate, and you've got all these problems with relatively simple solutions - then I don't know what to tell you, mate.