Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos

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How do you teach PvP now?

Jsc

Disney's Princess
A New Approach

Greetings all. Let's start with a little backstory. If you have had the priviledge of reading The Jedi Order's Major Faction Application this month, good for you. Inside you'll find a very inspired group of like-minded people with a whole new approach to playing The Map Game. For myself, after having read their application I quickly did two things. 1. I reread the Victory Conditions for winning an Invasion. And 2. I discovered I need to rethink the way I teach my IC students how to PvP.


How do you teach PvP now?

History lesson time. In the past I've taught many different types of PvP to my IC students to better prepare them for winning battles. Mostly, this meant 1v1 turn-by-turn dueling for Force Users and Fleeting for non-Force Users. Win your duel or fleet engagement and you've done your job. That was what a Jedi Master taught the Padawan. That was what an Admiral taught the Captains. And it worked for me. For years.

However. Today on Chaos the aim and goal for FU PvP has changed. The Victory Conditions are different. Today we have teamwork, story, and no drama for Victory Conditions. Among others. Which, is something I've never actually taught to any IC student... Probably ever. So this old fart needs some help from all you new kids and Major Faction Owners out there. Indeed. This next question can be view IC or OOC. I just want your honest opinion.

Q: Um... So... How do you teach PvP now?
 
For me personally, I think teaching PvP is half and half IC and OOC because I think really having a good time in PvP is the same as having a good time when you're writing a private thread or creating a plot.

It's about collaboration and respect. Both sides should be able to come together and talk about what they want and get excited about having an awesome fight in Star wars whether that's blasters, ships, lightsabers, or force powers.

As far as I'm concerned the only way to PvP really without having any potential headaches is to have everyone on the same page and make sure new people understand what Power gaming or meta-gaming is. Not that you aren't allowed to make mistakes, it happens. But, I think the best way to teach is to approach it as an open environment where the objective is to have fair fun.

I'd say, IC specific if you want to teach someone how to fight. The best way to do that is, especially where melee is concerned at least.
You must​ teach them about momentum in fights.

Momentum has a dual meaning here:

As in if one fighter has more momentum than the other in regards to how the fight is going, and is just wailing on them or equally as important: the momentum of movement. Which, is to mean that every movement is a investment momentum wise and if you invest poorly you should be punished, not to say killed or permanently damaged, the severity is circumstantial but owning it and taking a hit makes you much more fun to write and fight with than 'lol-noping' out of there.

Also, make sure people understand the basics of being offline and online are in regards to sword fights. You may use different terminology but its important.

Online: Outside of their defences, as in your weapon is on the outside of the weapon; as in being countered by an enemy.
Offline: You're within the defences of your enemy's weapon. Therefore inside of the space between their weapon and themselves which makes it much easier to land a hit.

That's all my thoughts on something strictly OOC or IC but I think something that is related to both is doing stuff 'within reason'.

No matter what people say, whether you are an NFU or an FU greatly changes the outcome of a fight. If you're two writers who are completely equal PvPers its likely an FU will win a fight 9/10 times. Its just how it is. Cad Bane was good but he could never beat Vader in a straight up fight. That is why I try my best to employ the rule of doing things ​within reason​, if you just run straight at a Master of the force. You have to play ball, it's silly to imagine you're just going to win that fight straight up unless you're carrying some serious tech and have the odds stacked against the force user.

Furthermore, the same rules can apply to any character. Don't throw yourself into situations you probably couldn't walk away from without harm and expect to walk away, without harm. As much as this is a sci-fi fantasy universe, what makes it feasible to even fight is how it is tethered to its own rules and logic. So, try your best to adhere to it, besides its not fun if you're a mary sue super sayan snowflake anyway. You'll get bored of it, trust me.

I think I may have went on a bit of a tangent there. Whoops. But I haven't got much else to say on the matter other than, remember that even the Emperor got sucker punched by an old handless robot man who got beat up by an angstie half trained guy. And we'd all lose to the emperor 1 on 1.
 
I don't teach how to PvP, I teach, in-character, things someone in star wars should learn as my character's apprentice. If that coincides with PvP, great. I don't coach people on how to deal with another PC in the sense of how to best beat their opponent, I show their character the skills necessary to survive and let them decide how to approach PvP themselves. If they ask me separately from our RP how to best apply said abilities in PvP, I might explain my suggestions, but I'm not focused on PvP except for the portion about interaction with another character.

The only time I "teach" an apprentice regarding writing with other people is when they're new writers, and usually then it's the basic breakdown of what is power gaming, godmodding, and metagaming, and how best to avoid doing those things. The only thing I will bring up 100% of the time is how to approach a scenario where they need to discuss the contents of a post with another writer, most notably that talking with the other writer should always be step #1 if they don't feel that they can roll with the other person's post. Reports are a last resort.
 

Rusty

Purveyor of Fine Weaponry
Teaching people to fight in a salt free manner is a two part process: they have to understand how to fight IC, and they need to know how to interact with their opponent OOC. So really, nothing's changed in the way one should go about teaching one's students, aside from a greater emphasis on collaboration and sportsmanship.
 

Aya Clarke

Lady Clarke, Saint of the Crimson Eagle
I've always approached PVP, as a PVPer, as give and take. Sometimes I come up with a creative way to mitigate something, so I don't have to ignore what they've done but I don't lose the chance to help push the story forward either, or a creative way around certain defenses that isn't extremely obvious, but that's all to the circumstance. I can win an unbalanced fight out of creativity but I can't lose sight of logic and reason in doing so, if that makes sense.

If I can't understand something I ask them for more elaboration in a PM. If I need to survive a fight I'm losing miserably for plotline reasons (say I've already survived as of another thread) and want to make the victory meaningful without having to create some timeline paradox and X off a character, I talk about it. Most people seem pretty calm and chill about people surviving pretty ridiculous things as long as its a good, fun, fair story.

Then again im also not particularly old to the sight. I just talk OOC and do reasonable (or at least possible) things IC and that's how it's always been for me.
 
Rusty said:
Teaching people to fight in a salt free manner is a two part process: they have to understand how to fight IC, and they need to know how to interact with their opponent OOC. So really, nothing's changed in the way one should go about teaching one's students, aside from a greater emphasis on collaboration and sportsmanship.
More or less speaks my mind on the subject.

Emphasis on the enjoyment of story telling while too a focus on OOC attitudes towards other players and the hope for mutual respect both in-Character and out should things come to a discussion or difference of opinions.

As to what tactics or employ I use with regards to teaching others how to PvP; quite literally found the best way of teaching them is to engage them in a One-Vee-One thread including spoilers for OOC regards and advice where they might require a little constructive criticism. Doing this however requires a person able to take feedback without taking it personally at the same time. With no stress on the end outcome of such a thread, the focus isn't on who's to win but rather how myself and the other party go about posting, tactics, descriptiveness etc
 

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