Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos

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[Guide] Write Fights and Fight Right - Guidelines and Manners in PVP

The High Prestess
A Guide To Slugging It Out and Keeping It Friendly
Disclosures first: This guide draws heavily on an excellent thread written by an old, friendly acquaintance - PVP 101: How To Take A Measured Hit

So, I like fight scenes. I've been on Chaos on and off (mostly off) since 2016, and I've done quite a few of them. I'm presuming a lot of the people reading this like fight scenes too - they're a big part of star wars, after all. I'm sure we all have our aesthetic preferences; i know plenty of people who unironically love much of the fight choreography in the prequels, while I, personally, have a preference for the choreography in the Sequel Trilogy, and hold that Corridor's To The Death is the best depiction of lightsaber combat in any media I've ever seen.

But regardless of differences in taste and writing style, the fact is, we're all here, writing together, and that inevitably means we're going to have our precious little Star Wars OCs swing, thrust, and fire weapons at one another. Given that, I thought I'd chip in and add to the long list of guides on how, exactly, one does so.

My first general piece of advice is to Communicate Content Clearly. Unless the participants are going for a very particular style, it is important that everyone involved clearly communicates what actions they are having their characters attempt in a post. "Cal Kestis swings his saber at Trilla" is passable, but "Kestis went in for a leftward rising cut, aiming to carve Trilla from shin to shoulder" gives your writing partner more to work with and react to - it tells them what action your character is taking, and gives specifics without getting bogged down in minutiae.

Of equal or greater importance, I'd wager, is that you must Remember The Narrative. There are many aspects to this, but I figure for the sake of simplicity we can narrow it down to two. There's why the characters are fighting and why the writers are making them fight. Luke and Vader fought on Bespin because Vader wanted to recruit and corrupt Luke, and because Luke very much did not want that. But they also fought because the screenwriters and storyboarders thought their ought to be a fight about then. When doing cooperative-competitive writing, this gets more complex, but the basics remain the same. When writing a fight, remember why your character is fighting this other character, and guide their actions accordingly. But the writers should, ideally, work to guide the flow of the fight in an attempt to cooperatively achieve both of their goals, at least partly. If I'm writing some haughty Sith Lord, and I figure it'd be good for their arc to get their teeth kicked in, and I go fishing for a fight with a Jedi Grandmaster because of that, I know what I want. Similarly, if said Grandmaster's writer thinks it'd be beneficial to that character's story for them to fight a terrifying, dark presence that shakes them to the core, we have a general thrust for the direction of the fight; whoever wins, it's by the skin of their teeth, after a terrible battle with a worthy foe. Rejoice! Such are the glories of cooperative writing.

My next two lessons are most relevant to the oft toxic and sodium drenched realm of competitive threads, and the penultimate is as thus - (Most) People Want To Look Cool. No one wants to feel like they or their desires for the narrative are being ignored, and unless you've been given the go ahead, it's pretty obnoxious to write a fight wherein one PC just utterly, effortlessly trounces another. This doesn't mean that you have to write as if an opposition writer's Padawan is on par with your Sith Lord, but player characters are special, and generally, if two or more fight, everyone should leave with a new scar, no matter who wins. Laughing maniacally as you carve a gory path through faceless hordes is why we have Combat Unit submissions.

Finally, and this is my most important piece of advice, please remember that you should Try And Talk It Out. If you think another writer is being unreasonable - that they're walking all over your character when that's not fair, or they're no-selling too many of your character's attacks - it's better to bring that up with them than to just stew and get salty and assume bad faith. Sometimes people will, indeed, just be being assholes, but more often than not, most people involved in a thread are just trying to have fun, and if you're kind and understanding and willing to engage, they'll probably be willing to compromise so you have fun too.

And if they're not? Screw 'em. You've got better people to write with.
 
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sɪɴɴᴇʀs ʙʏ ᴅᴇᴇᴅ ʙᴜᴛ ʀɪɢʜᴛᴇᴏᴜs sᴛɪʟʟ
Remember The Narrative.

Honestly I think this section sums up exactly what I've been missing from fights for awhile. I've always tried to write pretty grounded characters when it comes to the power scale and have definitely "lost" more fights than I've "won" with my characters, and honestly I stopped doing pvp for the longest time because of narrative.

Things seem to have changed a lot while I was away, But I definitely remember times when certain folks would completely ignore someone else's narrative and try to just steamroll or even worse; Try to manipulate the narrative to paint someone as the villain for defending their homes or just... existing lol

And sadly I've been a member of groups that do that, once or twice, before leaving.


All lessons in this entry are valuable and should be remembered, but I think "Remember the narrative" is one that's been neglected the hardest in the past and most deserving of the spotlight now
 

Matt the Radar Tech

ꜰɪxɪɴɢ ᴛʜᴏsᴇ ʀᴀᴅᴀʀs ᴀɴᴅ sᴛᴜꜰꜰ
A good guide.

The tl;dr is collaborate.

I did want to make this observation though:

But I definitely remember times when certain folks would completely ignore someone else's narrative and try to just steamroll or even worse; Try to manipulate the narrative to paint someone as the villain for defending their homes or just... existing lol
You realize this is a personal point of view for narrative, yes? Also, you are implying that you can ignore another person's narrative, in favor of them supporting your narrative... hm.

No other player - or character - is obligated to embrace your narrative or moral stance, or state you are heroic for defending your home (to use your example), as every character has their own narrative perspective. Even villains (by the definitive sense) can see themselves as justified and heroic, even if that isn't the case, morally.

I'd suggest taking another look at how you approach all that, rather than blaming others for not saying you're the hero, especially if you've left factions or groups over it.

Also, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you can't write your character as a hero; but I am saying that one character's hero is another character's villain, and that's perfectly fine and up to the player to determine, irrespective of your stance IC or OOC.
 
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especially if you've left factions or groups over it.

I've left factions over their refusal to collaborate with our opponents. I think that clarification is important.

I also think that hero and villain are very subjective, as not all things are black and white. It's important to give both sides their moment regardless. And it applies to the OOC side of things as well, which sadly had a habit of bleeding into the IC side of things. Like I said, maybe things have changed now? But that's definitely how it felt before.

you are implying that you can ignore another person's narrative, in favor of them supporting your narrative... hm.

It's a hella scummy thing to do, but I've seen it done and hated it every time. That's what I'm getting at. Not trying to say that anyone should, I'm in fact trying to say the opposite.

Stardust Solus Skirae Stardust Solus Skirae for example, i've her own narratives and IC actions ignored time and time again or even twisted to try and paint her the villain for other people's stories, for example. And that's just the first case off the top of my head. Fact is, a lot of people used to let their OOC grudges bleed into their IC narrative. People used to straight up write up their own versions of what happened in say, an invasion or another faction thread and then just run wild with it, state it as absolute fact and not even a character's POV. It used to be like pulling teeth to get your own stories recognized and not be treated like NPCs to someone else.

That's the problem I used to have with Invasions especially, and to a degree, PvP in general. To the community's credit, I've experienced far better recently, And I've even begun to really like factions now that were toxic in the past.

Again, I'm not saying that chaos hasn't risen above the absolute mess that it used to be. I'm actually very proud of the community, mostly.
But if you don't remember your history, aren't you doomed to repeat it?
 

Matt the Radar Tech

ꜰɪxɪɴɢ ᴛʜᴏsᴇ ʀᴀᴅᴀʀs ᴀɴᴅ sᴛᴜꜰꜰ

I get that, things were salty(ier) in the past, they've gotten better.

Still, my point is that - no matter how you feel about it, IC or OOC - no one is obligated to approach their narrative from your point of view. People are going to write how they write. Characters will believe what they believe. Just because someone is skewing events, for whatever reason on or beyond the screen, shouldn't affect your character so long as your narrative for said character is consistent and followed.

If you want to be a good guy Mandalorian, do it.

Also, isn't Stardust working for a criminal empire (the Family)? How is that not villainous?

That was rhetorical.

It's all relative.
 
I would definitely take a look at this thread when you have time to add a little more perspective. I've seen a ton of PVP on the site. Good, bad, pretty, ugly, and pretty ugly. At the end of the day, it's okay to enjoy your story. You should. Just keep in mind that it's your perspective and there will be others out there regardless of whether it's OOC or IC.

No need to let it rain on your parade, though, as it's also okay to take a step back and admit to yourself that "the writing style" of a particular person or faction might not be up your alley. Sometimes people go too hard, or, get lost in the sauce. The beauty of Chaos is that you can pack up your toys, no questions asked, and choose a different sandbox to play in. Collaboration and communication are key. It's helped out a ton when people actually do it openly and honestly. Yeah. It was a tough road to get to where we are, but, well worth it IMO.

But if communication, collaboration, etc fails despite your best efforts - That's also part of life. Sometimes people won't see eye to eye and that's also perfectly okay. Just don't forget that you do have the ability to remove yourself from the situation and politely find enjoyment in another thread/another scenario. There are a ton of people to interact with.

No one is forced to write with anyone they don't want to.
 
I have been rereading the early EU books of late. (Slowly as per usual.) And one thing that has struck me is how remarkably undetailed the duels can be, or even the shoot outs. When I compare that to Chaos, and such like, I realize that we are comparing apples and oranges. They are both fruit. But the juice of one is allowable at breakfast, the other is for lunch or dinner. Where was I? Oh yes, because detail is being conveyed to someone who has to REACT in this very un-prose-like back and forth (which still breaks my brain when it comes to the time line breaking rules of dialogue, no one talks like this).

My big struggle is always keeping track of details, because sometimes you can misread, misunderstand or the other writer can be intentionally or unintentionally ambiguous about an action. And my biggest sad-eyes moment is when people pounce on the forgetfulness/misunderstanding and use it as an opportunity to make your character appear inept or idiotic. Granted. The writer of said character may have slipped up (to err is human) but a quick message to say, "Hey, maybe you misread this, or I wasn't good enough at conveying it but..."

Thankfully, I haven't had any circumstances like that since my recent return to writing here.

My mind comes from a narrative stand point first. This is why I am generally disengaged from the map game. It is also why I purposely write in moments of embarrassment, failure and accidents into my posts. It's no fun writing a perfect character. (Or a perfect relationship for that matter, but that is a work in progress post still).
 
this very un-prose-like back and forth (which still breaks my brain when it comes to the time line breaking rules of dialogue, no one talks like this)

I once tried to take posts from a thread and edit them into prose and the dialogue not lining up was the biggest problem I faced. That's one thing that definitely irks me about the post-by-post format.

My big struggle is always keeping track of details, because sometimes you can misread, misunderstand or the other writer can be intentionally or unintentionally ambiguous about an action. And my biggest sad-eyes moment is when people pounce on the forgetfulness/misunderstanding and use it as an opportunity to make your character appear inept or idiotic.

OOF. I'm guilty of doing this in my early years, although after having it done to me I realized how shitty it was and stopped. In my experience people are far less likely to get annoyed if you point out their mistakes OOC rather than trying to incorporate it IC.

That said... I worked with one writer who seemed to just be really bad at thinking things through. They'd send us on missions or threads which would fall apart as we were writing them, becoming a big illogical mess. That kind of thing can be genuinely frustrating. I wound up acting as DM whenever we would write together, to avoid it becoming chaotic. Definitely remember to play to each other's strengths, lol.
 
It is also why I purposely write in moments of embarrassment, failure and accidents into my posts.
This is actually a big rule in improv acting, to make the other actors look good. They, in turn, make you look good.
I worked with one writer who seemed to just be really bad at thinking things through.
I think I'd probably be prone to this, especially with my lack of experience. So, I prefer to let others take the reins. And I try to find out as much as I can about what the others are planning so I don't accidentally end up ruining it. Almost did once, but we were able to fix it, and it worked out just fine.
 

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