Furthering the "United Jedi Order"

[Coci Heavenshield]

[member="Mantic Dorn"]

reps = representatives. Not Republic.

Is that what you are referring to?

 

[Nima Tann]

Let's see. I am thinking this decision as real life politics.

Let's say the factions are countries and the Grandmasters are presidents, and the High Council is NATO. So, if something very terrible happens, all the leaders from factions come together and form the High Council, decide what to do and act together.

No one loses identity, yet everyone decides as one.

 

[Kei Amadis]

[member="Mantic Dorn"]

Those are good writers, I mean no disrespect, but they are also the ones who caused the splintering in the first place. It makes me doubt. If this is going to work I think they are the ones that need to take a back seat role and let some others shine. Just my five cents.

It is unfair of you to state both that you want the past put behind people and you want the past put in front of people. Yes there are great writers on the board all over the place, I could not possibly name them all. Which I actually wrote above, and that was the point! If its not universal, its not universal.

If you were not actually here when the Jedi split into different orders that's all I have to say. If you were, you should realise that there were several parties involved within the jedi as well as without, and a general feeling of change needed at the time.

^However this is going to derail the discussion very quickly. We can either put this behind us or not, working with those who lead, and work so darned hard to keep things organised, fun or not.

 

[Mantic Dorn]

[member="Mantic Dorn"]

reps = representatives. Not Republic.

Is that what you are referring to?

Yes it was. My bad. I am so used to being on the defensive about the GR all the time. My apologizes.

Let's see. I am thinking this decision as real life politics.

Let's say the factions are countries and the Grandmasters are presidents, and the High Council is NATO. So, if something very terrible happens, all the leaders from factions come together and form the High Council, decide what to do and act together.

No one loses identity, yet everyone decides as one.

I think that if folks would want to back a major faction versus an enemy they would already have done so.
A high council could be a neat place to RP for a few selected but I dont think it will make Mantic rush out to defend the GA any more then it will make GA-jedi rush out to defend the GR in an invasion. Harsh example, but just to make it clear.
It will also come down to that while the Jedi Order is a minor faction the SSC and the GA are major factions run IC and OOC by Jedi with territories of their own.
The jedi role in the various factions are so different and carry such different leverage that it will be hard to say it is an equal council, from an OOC perspective.

 

[Mantic Dorn]

[member="Mantic Dorn"]





It is unfair of you to state both that you want the past put behind people and you want the past put in front of people. Yes there are great writers on the board all over the place, I could not possibly name them all. Which I actually wrote above, and that was the point! If its not universal, its not universal.

If you were not actually here when the Jedi split into different orders that's all I have to say. If you were, you should realise that there were several parties involved within the jedi as well as without, and a general feeling of change needed at the time.

^However this is going to derail the discussion very quickly. We can either put this behind us or not, working with those who lead, and work so darned hard to keep things organised, fun or not.

I just want to state that post count should not be deciding who sits in the council. Admiration is a good thing and while I see allot of people eager to lead OOC I dont see much discussion about what it means IC.
For instance, I really enjoy the writings of [member="Thurion Heavenshield"] (example since he has not involved himself so far) - but IC it is not likely that my character would consider him a leader. Granting those who already have molded firm positions (which is not a bad thing mind you) to run this does not make feel something new is coming from this.

I question to give these writers the roles just because they have written allot on these boards. There should be more IC deciding if some jedi masters feel it is time to get together. The SSC and the GA/NJO and the JO has not worked together because of the history. It can not be ignored but something new obviously need to happen if the order is to come together again.

 

[Thurion Heavenshield]

Why not just have each faction vote who they want to represent them on the High Council?

 

[Kei Amadis]

[member="Mantic Dorn"]
No post count should not be a deciding factor of who sits on a body, but if you want this to work well you'll need people others respect and listen to. People who do the hard job of leading, and yes it is often hard, or at least making fun stories for everyone. Jorus for example, well respected character for the stories he runs and the quality rp he generates for everyone, didn't name him by example for his post count, barely RP'd or spoken with the man. Corvus, rp'd with her once, but you know what she's in the OOC threads and training threads every single day helping other people - that's why she gets my respect.

Experience though interacting with Jedi and others is a factor I recognize often in quality of posting or roleplay, and at least a measure of what i'd vote on, as well as a diplomatic manner in a representative.

[member="Thurion Heavenshield"]
Perfect.

 

[Mantic Dorn]

[member="Mantic Dorn"]
No post count should not be deciding factor of who sits on a body, but if you want this to work well you'll need people others respect and listen to. People who do the hard job of leading, and yes it is often hard, or at least making fun stories for everyone. Jorvus for example, well respected character, didn't name him by example for his post count, barely RP'd or spoken with the man. Corvus, rp'd with her once, but you know what she's in the OOC threads and training threads every single day helping other people - that's why she gets my respect.

Experience though interacting with Jedi and others is a factor I recognize often in quality of posting or roleplay, and at least a measure of what i'd vote on, as well as a diplomatic manner in a representative.

[member="Thurion Heavenshield"]
Perfect.

I am aware it is hard work to keep a faction and/others going. Admiration for others are a good thing but sometimes one gets blinded, there are plenty of others who bring training and helpful ideas to the table each day. You just prefer to keep tabs on those you already know and like (which is nothing strange or bad).

Why not just have each faction vote who they want to represent them on the High Council?

Polls risk to bring in the popularity issue. But perhaps that is not an issue... hrm..

But there is still no IC reasoning about this. Its an OOC board, with what purpose? To bring all light siders together is fairly vague?

Will jedi defend the same territory, I think it is not likely since then it risks turning into a tool for the major factions (which is why the JO left the GR) - so it is not a war council? The code? People invent their own codes on daily basis and I think everyone want their version to be true to keep their character interesting (if the codes matter at all).

Training? Absolutely, but then we already have the JA.

What else?

 

[Mara D'Lessio Merrill]

The reason I proposed a federal system is this:

• Everything stays up to the member groups, except
• We pick a handful of issues, a small handful, on which we'll make decisions collectively. That's something that can be delegated to a High Council comprised of people elected or appointed from each group.
• This is basically what we have now, except we never finished nailing down exactly what issues we decide collectively as the Jedi as a whole.

 

[Kei Amadis]

[member="Mantic Dorn"]

Its a big board. Impossible to keep track of everyone writing.

My favorite characters are often well written or unique padawans with no IC clout whatsoever.

We are not talking about me however keeping tabs on someone, we are talking about how to form a body that is representative and recognized across a wide spectrum of people IC and OOC.

 

[Mantic Dorn]

The reason I proposed a federal system is this:

• Everything stays up to the member groups, except
• We pick a handful of issues, a small handful, on which we'll make decisions collectively. That's something that can be delegated to a High Council comprised of people elected or appointed from each group.
• This is basically what we have now, except we never finished nailing down exactly what issues we decide collectively as the Jedi as a whole.

This is good. What common issues can we work with?

[member="Mantic Dorn"]

Its a big board. Impossible to keep track of everyone writing.

My favorite characters are often well written or unique padawans with no IC clout whatsoever.

We are not talking about me however keeping tabs on someone, we are talking about how to form a body that is representative and recognized across a wide spectrum of people IC and OOC.

I am aware. sorry to make you an example in such a blunt way but I think it is relevant to the overall discussion on who should be Role Playing the members of a possible high council. I simply stated my opinion on electing the ones you mentioned because of the reasons you wrote.
It was a suggestion from you that I disagreed with. thats why we have the thread, I presume. To discuss.

 

[Mara D'Lessio Merrill]

In continuation of my last post - found a spare bit of time -

I'e got some suggestions for things that we could safely put in the hands of a united council that's representative of all groups and those of no groups:

• Calling and arranging convocations, as a couple people mentioned in the other thread
• Arranging collective opportunities and projects, as mentioned by [member="Sam Kazroy"]
• Arranging inclusion and outreach opportunities for Jedi who don't have a faction
• Taking stock of all our resources and locations, though it's too early to have them all in common

 

[Kei Amadis]

[member="Mantic Dorn"]
No offense taken at all, just a disagreement what it'd take to make this work.

Voting to put popular choices in place, would be the popular route.

 

[Mantic Dorn]

[member="Mara D'Lessio Merrill"]

There was a thread a while back using light side alchemy to create a jedi-spawn. Everyone were not comfy with it since the thoughts touched in with sith spawn and sith alchemy pretty quick.

Stuff like that, what can be considered light side in general might be fitting in there?

 

[Mara D'Lessio Merrill]

[member="Mantic Dorn"] - I read the thread and saw where you're coming from. That's something that'd lead to so much disagreement, it's probably best left to factions to sort out for now. Hot-button issues like that tend to derail things and distract from the arrangements that can be accepted by all, for now.

 

[Teynara Jeralyr]

[member="Kei Amadis"] Thank you for saying that

As far as the overall topic goes, I don't object to the idea of a Council in an advisory capacity, with the emphasis placed on dealing with the Sith and other factions, provided there is no expectation that we act together or as permanent allies - invariably each Faction must maintain their independence. Otherwise we might also come across issues with our Faction status - no Major Faction can be externally run, as far as I am aware!

Realistically, the sole functions of such an Alliance would be to bring together Jedi in the event of an invasion/dominion (so SSC personnel might assist our friendly factions in invasions if they wish to, but without obligation to do so), and to share personnel for training. The idea of a High Council...I don't much see the point. ICly, no Council will override Faction Leader prerogatives, and we don't need any over-arching rules to govern the Jedi factions. You'd honestly be better calling a Conclave if you're in the mood for a social gathering or group meeting. Sending representatives wouldn't really make much sense.

For arranging projects or collaborative threads...we can do that on an IC basis. If several want to collaborate, why doesn't one say "I'd like 2-3 people per faction" and let everyone figure out volunteers/representatives from there? This doesn't have to be arduous, and nor does it need a Council to sort it out.

 

[Sor-Jan Xantha]

I find myself agreeing with [member="Teynara Jeralyr"]

Having a standing Conclave on Yavin 4, with representatives from the Faction Councils (plus JAN for the non-aligned or faction neutral Jedi) makes sense in character. It could be a forum for discussion to keep communication open between the different groups of Jedi and prevent inter-Jedi conflict.

But another Council? I don't see the need.

Let the factions decide who they are sending, and that might be a different 1-2 masters depending on what's going on.

Let's be a little realistic with our expectations. We can say the purpose is a united Jedi front, but if the Primeval invade the SSC and the rules are no allies, there goes any opportunity for GR or GA to lend support. So the potential impact of this IC is limited at best in my opinion.

 

[Qyren Leret]

Having followed this thread's ups and downs from the original over to here, I find myself a bit confused.

The original proposition was for a unified Jedi order. Meaning all groups keep their distinct identities BUT come together to form one large Jedi Order. High Council is originally formed from the current leaders of the sub-factions, which allows for the opportunity in the future for Jedi who are not attached to one of those factions to mingle with the groups, eventually become part of the council, etc. and/or allows members of current factions to branch out from their faction into a more collective mindset of "Jedi". Unification, right?

What it sounds like it has become is the IC leaders occasionally meet up UN-style when they think it's required, make some decisions which may or may not result in all the factions banding together (so... not unified then?), and then go their separate ways to live life as they were before any of this started.

I was very much for the original idea (very much), though I understand why those who enjoy their current power structures/freedom would not. I am not for the second idea/the current iteration as I'm reading it, in part for concepts @Julius Sedare already covered in the original thread and in part because it doesn't sound unified at all. If the Council doesn't guide the Jedi community at large and bring them together-- which it won't if factions decide to keep the "we're all separate" mindset and refuse to go with the majority vote when it doesn't go their way-- I'll echo what some other people have said before: What's the point? I respect that, as many people want a unified order, many more enjoy the divided factions as they exist now. The idea just seems to have deviated so far from its original concept that it doesn't hold water anymore. As mentioned on the first page: if it's just for what the Jedi Academy is already doing, there doesn't seem to be much point.

Assuming that this Assembly/Council is actually formed as the idea stands now and is going to be its own entity without the unified aspect that it was supposed to represent, I believe the most useful iteration of what the Assembly would cover seems to have been suggested by [member="Mara D'Lessio Merrill"] . She is also the only person I've seen address the issue of Jedi not attached to a faction who also might want to be part of a collective group. (My apologies if I missed anyone else bringing that point up.) Thanks for thinking of us.

Let's be a little realistic with our expectations. We can say the purpose is a united Jedi front, but if the Primeval invade the SSC and the rules are no allies, there goes any opportunity for GR or GA to lend support. So the potential impact of this IC is limited at best in my opinion.

Unless it were the united front that was originally posited, in which case we're essentially coming together as one group with sub-group factions inside of it. Then it's not allies, it's one order being attacked and we can all participate. IC impact is no longer limited. As I said above, though, it seems that that idea-- though it seemed to be fairly well supported at the start-- is no longer under discussion.

 

[Mantic Dorn]

What [member="Qyren Leret"] says, but she says it without my inherited offending tone.

If there is no real mandate to rule over jedi and we already have the training in the JA and we dont want to cause OOC arguements by brining up sensitive stuff (like jedi spawn) in this faction.... what is the point?

Well, I can still argue casual Role Play between higher up jedi's from different factions. But other then that..?

[member="Sor-Jan Xantha"]
*waves brownie*
Enclaves! Have meetings with jedi representatives. Each faction votes to send two members to hear a special matter. They discuss it and bring back advisory guidance for their "home-faction"
That promotes RP without causing a mess.

 

[Micah Talith]

Then how about this?

1. All orders join the Jedi Academy network.
2. Two representatives are assigned per order / organization. No internal changes of the orders themselves. Just an agreement to work together and talk the key notes Mara made.
3. We do all rp out in the main forum.
4. However, One forum for "The Jedi Assembly Enclave" is made in JAN, where oocly things are organized for quick references. I.e. Anything decided icly via rp
5. ????
6. Profit.