Furthering the "United Jedi Order"

[Ilias Nytrau]

Padawans, Knights, Masters!

My friends,

I have made this OOC discussion forum open to all for viewing and reading. That means the entire site. I'm a huge proponent of informed decision-making, and with something potentially as widely affective and reaching as this, everyone deserves to know, and everyone deserves to be involved. The 'Order' belongs to everyone.To post, you must of course be a member of the J.A.N. forums, but that's as easy as a click of the 'Join Faction' button. Now, onto business.

By now, many have seen the discussion thread as to whether some form of unification is possible, and ideas have been bandied about as to how this would be achieved. Allow me to summarize what has been said, to that end, as well as some other concerns that have been sticking points over the whole process since the ball started to roll last year:

1) The member groups (TJO, NJO, SJO, etc) will not be dismantled or absorbed into one big group. The best framework for this 'Order' would be a 'Federal' and 'Provincial'* relationship, where the member groups are 'provinces'* and the 'High Council' is the Federal level. This is not set in stone. Discuss.

2) The 'High Council' would consist of bodies from each member group. Mentioned was a structure of the current 'Grandmasters' of each group, plus a couple other 'prominent' members from each faction.

I've heard concerns over the same people being on this council that are always on top, or people that have held 'top dog' positions or council positions before. To this end, a voting process has been suggested, but even then, this may not solve the issue.

Addressing that, there needs to be not just the same people as always, but some who are new. Ones who have never been on a council before on this site, and ones who have been on this site a year or less, as a suggestion. You want representation? Let's represent everyone as best and as fairly as we possibly can. Still, democratic process shouldn't necessarily be thrown out the window. None of this is set in stone. Discuss.

3) The Jedi Academy Network forums have been singled out as the best 'home' for this overarching 'Order'. I have detailed the reasons why here. You are by no means required to agree. This is not set in stone, either. Discuss.

4) Promotion Jurisdiction! This was a huge sticking point from the get-go, but what came from that is what we have at the moment:

The right to promote FU* members by and large falls to individual groups, and that will not change, and independent light-sided members who train within the Network fall under the jurisdiction of the Network and all its masters, and furthermore, the High Council.

Overall, promotion jurisdiction applies almost exclusively to Master votes and promotions, as a padawan's overseer tracks their progress and handles their readiness for Knight, in most cases. This is pretty much set in stone, but is open for discussion. Discuss.

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This discussion is not exclusive.** Though ICly we look to our Grandmasters and councils (if we have them), OOCly, it's the voices of all lightsiders that need to be heard. This has the potential to affect everyone, and so it should not be done behind closed doors. So, if you're going to post here, please post as a lightside alt, for Force sakes. Be sensible.

Lastly, be calm, be civil, be constructive. This is set in stone.

Your Friendly J.A.N. Representative,

Ilias Nytrau
Jedi Master

*or States! Forgive me, I'm Canadian!
**Unless you're a Sith, but that should go without saying.

 

[Micah Talith]

NJO uses an NPC as a leader with Pc marshals based on activity and sensibility.

That's honestly a good set up for a high council position. Let it be an npc easily rpd by the group it represents. It always shows consistency and anyone the smaller council allows to rp can rp them.

 

[Placeholder 04]

I feel that NPCs running things makes it impersonal and subject to manipulation, but then they have worked well in the past, and I do understand the capacity for arrogance holding such a position can have for certain roleplayers.

I'll roll with whatever the majority wishes.

 

[Kenrath]

I feel that NPCs running things makes it impersonal and subject to manipulation, but then they have worked well in the past, and I do understand the capacity for arrogance holding such a position can have for certain roleplayers.

I'll roll with whatever the majority wishes.

Pretty much been my thoughts on NPCs running things.

 

[Coci Heavenshield]

I am a little confused by this.

What is the purpose of the NPC leader here? is there going to be a head of the council like a Grand Grand Master?

I don't see the need for such a position anyway as the council (reps from all the factions) should be enough. If we can't work together as a council a NPC leader is not going to do anything to stop that. And if this does work, NPC leader is redundant.

Having said this, I have never been in a faction that has had a NPC leader so not sure if a good thing or bad really.

 

[Jsc]

I believe Cyril wants a High Council to rule over the Orders, and I disagree with that. I believe that a singular ruling party will not achieve the desired positive effects for our Jedi community, at this time. Rather, I'm pro-coalition. Not pro-federal or pro-NPC.

I would enjoy seeing a Ambassadors Council, (whatever name,) which simply creates volunteer opportunities for all of the Orders to participate in as they see fit. Providing an example of working diversity for all of us. And a way forward.

We do this for an IRL year and see if everybody gets along. Then. Revisit Cyril's idea.

*2 Cents. Individual opinion. Not backed by any Order. Thank you for reading.

 

[Tiland Kortun]

Definitely thinking on things and considering, even if I don't have much to contribute at this point.

 

[Coci Heavenshield]

I believe Cyril wants a High Council to rule over the Orders, and I disagree with that. I believe that a singular ruling party will not achieve the desired positive effects for our Jedi community, at this time. Rather, I'm pro-coalition. Not pro-federal or pro-NPC.

I think it might be prudent to clarify exactly what this High Council will do, what it's role will be. If the above quote is correct and this HC is to rule over all the Orders I am not in favour of this either.

I, for one, would not like a decision passed down from the HC that would influence operations in SSC space (or any other faction involved in this for that matter), that SSC does not agree with because our GM and Rep were out voted. Operations of individual Orders must be protected so they can get on with being the SSC or NJO and so on.

I also do not like the descriptions of the framework as Federal and Provincial, this is a political framework and this also high lights Sam's point.

I would prefer to see this 'gathering' of the Orders as more of an Alliance.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

[member="Coci Heavenshield"]
I am in complete agreement.

If this united Jedi Council ever became a thing, it'd only work if it was a means for training, teaching and aiding all Jedi. Expecting it to become a theocracy with a Grand Master (NPC or not) giving orders sticks in my craw.

I don't want anyone dictating orders to the SSC, and I'm sure TJO and GA would not like that either. This will only work as a society, training area and advisory body. It will not work as a political or military organisation.

 

[Mantic Dorn]

I do not agree with this new faction idea.
There is too much OOC into this move.

Sorry [member="Cyril Grayson"] , while I first found your idea interesting I started to read the public thread and this is how I feel.

[member="Ilias Nytrau"]
I also think that removing the Jedi Academy's current lay out is a mistake. The Jedi Academy as it is now is open to everyone. The new format feels much more exclusive.

 

[Ilias Nytrau]

[member="Mantic Dorn"]

I do like it the way it is, but I feel that the training forums need a look. At least, group training threads have been given encouragement to occur in the main roleplay forums - which is excellent advertising, by the way - and they have thus far done so. Given this, one training forum should suffice for those that feel more comfortable within faction forums.

All I said before is that I am prepared to make changes if necessary, not that I absolutely intend to.

[member="Valiens Nantaris"]

If this united Jedi Council ever became a thing, it'd only work if it was a means for training, teaching and aiding all Jedi. [...] This will only work as a society, training area and advisory body.

This is why these discussions exist! Thank you! Really, this pins down more what I had in mind, but defining it was... well. What you've said aligns with what the J.A.N. seeks to accomplish already.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

[member="Ilias Nytrau"]
So if that's the case...why do we need a High Council?

 

[Coci Heavenshield]

I think that an Alliance would be better for this to bring us all together including the JO.

If there is are issues (invasion, skirmish etc) that one of the Orders face or something to discuss around the Force, or if (force forbid) a group goes rogue, than we have a call to Assemble.

An open forum for all ranks to sit in on, not high end reps only.

Now I am off to cook sate chicken.

 

[Ilias Nytrau]

[member="Valiens Nantaris"]

Should the council be high? I don't know.

Sorry, sorry. Sometimes I can't help myself. At any rate, this is a matter of words, yes? The words used there (High Council) imply something that doesn't jive with the structure we're aiming to achieve, when thinking on it.

That is to say... call It an Advisory Council and the meaning and purview of the Council shift, ne? It fits better with what's wanted, and defines the role of such a council better.

 

[Mantic Dorn]

[member="Ilias Nytrau"] [member="Valiens Nantaris"]
I think a high council is a good thing. Jedi are not free birds doing what they want with the force. Bad things happen then and hence there is a need for more insightful masters to call the shots. IC power and influence corrupts easily and is not something jedi should dish out in an open format just to make everyone OOC happy. To me this at least is a big part of RPing a jedi. '
But, this also makes the Jedi Academy into something else. So I personally feel it should be left to the orders to find ways to work together. Not use this network.

[member="Coci Heavenshield"] - there are no pro reps involved in this at all. Heavenshields are more likely to end up in this. Why stating such a thing? (Just taking the chance to imply that folks need to back off from the GR. There is nothing wrong at the faction OOC or IC apart from poor memories from some of you. But it should not be brought up for us new folks all the time).

 

[Teynara Jeralyr]

Just a few thoughts on this:

Regarding a 'Jedi Council'

I personally do not want to see this happen - although it's nice to have the LS groups working together in some way, each one has their own agenda and personality, and thus, we are likely to disagree and have very different issues to focus on. Nor are we likely to agree on everything - and, let's be honest, many of the concerns likely to be raised are regarding the Sith. If one gets drawn into conflict, this would offer a platform to draw in other LS factions into the conflict. This would not be in the best interests of each individual faction, and would very badly blur the lines between us - making our separate identities far harder to assert.

With that in mind, a Council would be problematic. What if we draw together members from 3-4 factions, and SSC disagreed with the majority vote? Would the consensus be imposed upon us? Or would it be entirely toothless, and lack effect? Either way, it doesn't seem it would be particularly effective - and we can frankly coordinate without this.

If an issue arises which requires all of the Factions to offer input, summon a Conclave, a meeting for all the Factions to meet as one and discuss/debate and decide on an issue. We don't need a permanent system for this - and, frankly, having one dampens the potential for RP in that respect.

Promotions and Training

I do love the idea of cross-faction training - the idea of sending our students to different groups and training across those factions. Promotions should, however, remain under the auspices of the Faction to whom that person belongs - if a student from the SSC trains a little with JO, it is still SSC that should put their promotion forward, and our leadership that makes that decision.

I have more to add, but I'll do so later. Busy day, I'm afraid!

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

We need an ecumenical council to be summoned.

I suggest making a planet named Nicea.

 

[Mantic Dorn]

Just a few thoughts on this:

...

Promotions and Training

I do love the idea of cross-faction training - the idea of sending our students to different groups and training across those factions. Promotions should, however, remain under the auspices of the Faction to whom that person belongs - if a student from the SSC trains a little with JO, it is still SSC that should put their promotion forward, and our leadership that makes that decision.

I have more to add, but I'll do so later. Busy day, I'm afraid!

But is this not what the JA is already?

 

[Kei Amadis]

[member="Ilias Nytrau"]
You've completely totally and utterly won my respect for hosting this discussion and trying to moderate it. - This is essentially what a meeting would look like IC, which will make for a charged thread as you can see!

Coci and Valiens has more than my view covered in this discussion, putting it with less waffle than I do as always

[member="Mantic Dorn"]

If the alliance is going to work in a stronger format, it'll need every single party equally assisting IC, GR, GA, SSC, Convent, Academy and you are right in that'll it'll need people to put aside things such as the past, but this is the big one - Who are the more insightful Masters, if not those that are speaking (and would be) in organisation like this, such as Coci, Valiens and for example Corvus, Jorus or Coren who have been around the galactic core a million times and back. (Sorry for the million Jedi I didn't list, that is the point I am making!) They've seen a lot, done a lot, and had more threads with Jedi than most people have had bad sunday TV.

[member="Teynara Jeralyr"]
You have an incredible level of intelligence and eloquence in how you put pen to paper, or in this case finger to keys!

I don't fear as much of a loss of identity if all are equally represented, and this starts or remains advisory rather than arbitrary but I am with you in not wanting to lose a freedom write, all the way. As for whether things break down now and again when trying to reach a common ground on a subject, I can tell everyone yes they will, but as long as that's taken IC not OOC that'll just be the result of it organically on some issues, while some will obviously reach agreement.

 

[Mantic Dorn]

and Valiens has more than my view covered in this discussion, putting it with less waffle than I do as always
[member="Mantic Dorn"]

If the alliance is going to work in a stronger format, it'll need every single party equally assisting IC, GR, GA, SSC, Convent, Academy and you are right in that'll it'll need people to put aside things such as the past, but this is the big one - Who are the more insightful Masters, if not those that are speaking (and would be) in organisation like this, such as Coci, Valiens and for example Corvus, Jorus or Coren who have been around the galactic core a million times and back. (Sorry for the million Jedi I didn't list, that is the point I am making!) They've seen a lot, done a lot, and had more threads with Jedi than most people have had bad sunday TV.

The amount of threads is not what earns my vote here tbh. there are plenty of very experienced Role Players and Writers, who just have spent their time elsewhere that are equally good or even better at drawing out what need to be drawn out for such a thing as this to function.
Those are good writers, I mean no disrespect, but they are also the ones who caused the splintering in the first place. It makes me doubt.
If this is going to work I think they are the ones that need to take a back seat role and let some others shine. Just my five cents.