Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos

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Fleets and Factions

So I understand minor factions may only have fleets of decent sizes...


What are we talking about?

Couple hundred ships?

A few thousand?

Compared to like OS who must have hundreds of thousands...whats okay for a minor?
 
[member="Romeo Sin"]

Don't think too much about set numbers. They're a useless value to make any judgment on in roleplay.

I believe the rule was left vague for a reason, but I also believe it's more about keeping a minor faction honest. Do what you feel is reasonable for your faction to have, as long as you follow the rest of the rules it probably won't matter much at all.

TL;DR

Don't pull armadas out of your butt.
 
Sarge Potteiger said:

Romeo Sin said:
So I understand minor factions may only have fleets of decent sizes...


What are we talking about?

Couple hundred ships?

A few thousand?

Compared to like OS who must have hundreds of thousands...whats okay for a minor?
Looking over all available rules, the only rule pertaining specifically to fleet/army/etc size of factions states the following:
4. Only a Major Faction has the resources necessary to role-play having a large fleet, army, etc.
Located in the Faction Rules.

This is rather vague, but a good way to judge how you should be limited yourself in terms of fleet size, in this instance, would be to maintain that the big fleet you might have is still dwarfed by major factions - maybe even state as much, if necessary. Invasions commonly see combined lengths of upwards 15,000 m in ships (15 km), so you can use that as a starting point. Maybe consider 3km as a decent size? I would say that is more than enough, but that's just my opinion and it's totally up to you/the faction. I don't think anyone is going to get upset if you do some internal threads where you over-exaggerate the size of your fleet as massive or something, just don't try to act as a major faction with skirmishes of like 20 KM of ships or anything.

As for scale size, maximum sized ships a Minor faction can own/pilot is 1 KM, which is 1/3rd the size of non-flagships at maximum size available to Major Factions. You can surmise that about 1/3rd the size of a normal, average, major faction fleet (See: Galactic Alliance, Hutt Cartel, Covenant of the Black Rose, or other budding MFs) would be roughly the maximum acceptable. I'd just go ahead and be as vague as possible unless you needed to number your ships out, in which case I'd stick to the above-mentioned 3 KM notion. Maybe 5 KM tops.
 
Thanks guys. I just needed to understand better what I have to work with, and what I dont. I think meeting in the middle and saying 4KM would be best, though I wouldn't fill it out completely just yet.

Being vague is nice, and keeps ya from getting slaps on the wrist.
But having some form of number made also helps in the background so when we ever do go into battle, we know what we can make before, and what we can't. Just cause a ship isn't that max length, doesn't mean we couldn't deck it out to something nice.

(domestic) defense wise I was also hoping to take this number into consideration.

If I say we have X about of ships in the battle then what's the Y number of ships at home preparing to defend? Z being the total number of ships, I wanted to be realistic with the splitting and vagueness.
 
Grand Admiral, First Order Central Command
Canon is tragically vague when it comes to numbers of ships. I read at least one source that indicated the Empire at its peak had something like 22,000 Star Destroyers and an appropriate number of support ships. Conversely, the Black Fleet Crisis books list a combined Republic Fleet (that is to say, an entire battle fleet plus extras from the other five fleets) of around 600 ships.

I would take the latter as being a lot more reasonable.

In my mind (and probably no one else's, who even thinks of this sort of thing?) I imagine the One Sith in all its might to have several hundred Star Destroyer-class vessels at any given moment, the majority being Wryylok-class with a small but substantial percentage of the Dark Blades and the like (and a literal handful of Immortals). Say 80% of these are active at any given time (the rest in for repairs, refit, resupply, etc.). Maybe half of the rest are assigned to defense fleets, with the other half being your patrol, expeditionary, and assault units.

Now increase in orders of magnitude as you go down to smaller classes.
 
You and I should talk fleeting more often, I, even being a force user, enjoy the concept of fleeting, and consider myself a very rookie, but very willing fleeter.

The Black Fleet at 600?

While the Empire had roughly 22000??

This sounds waaaay off...unless you consider it is the NEW Republic whom seemed very weak at every corner you looked at it.

While the One Sith only have several hundred...this I did already believe. And like you I feel if we gathered them all up every ship, they'd probably fill the center of their cloud space.

Hmm...could break it down to the nitty gritty too...damm...you start to think about it...and there's so many numbers to run in your head...
 
Grand Admiral, First Order Central Command
Piss poor ship internet ate half my post and I didn't even notice.

I was going to continue that you can probably expect 20+ ships (of varying sizes) for each Star Destroyer/capital ship. That would give you (for the One Sith) a total fleet (from frigates on up) of around 15,000-20,000 warships. Most of these are cruisers/frigates in size, and it doesn't include local system defense ships, auxiliaries, support craft, etc. Nor does it include smaller vessels.

This still comes out to several hundred ships per system on the map (somewhat less if you figure that there are unnamed systems under Sith control that are simply too irrelevant to list, not sure if that's generally perceived to be the case or not) which frankly is a lot. Maybe too much, I don't know, but Star Wars tends towards the absurd extreme when it comes to numbers.

As an aside, you can probably assume there are hundreds of thousands of civilian ships for every military vessel. Say hundreds of millions in the galaxy overall.

Now, this is for what is now the largest and most powerful faction on the board. Other major factions would have considerably less overall, but probably enough to reasonably field a similar-sized fleet in any given situation. Where does a minor faction fit in? Hard to say, but you have to consider vastly limited resources and much smaller sphere of influence.

Remember that a classic Star Destroyer (1600m) is a MILE long with a crew of tens of thousands. A 'small' 400m frigate is 1300 feet long, bigger than a modern Nimitz-class Aircraft carrier (that carries a crew of roughly 5000).

With that in mind, I would figure that a very prominent, powerful, and old minor faction might have a few hundred ships total, mostly of the smaller variety. Supplying and equipping any more than that simply requires such a substantial number of resources that you very literally need entire planets to support it.

Of course does any of this impact RP? Not at all, and that's probably a good thing, because this is only MY interpretation of the whole number game and someone else might have very different ideas (see, the Black Fleet situation).

Bear in mind I find the numbers from the Black Fleet to be relatively reasonable whereas I find the concept of the Empire having 22000 Star Destroyers to be downright absurd.

All things considered, the above is based heavily on real world numbers of ships and so on, which while reasonable (to me) may well be totally off base when it comes to factoring things for Star Wars. So we arrive at the start again and I find myself forced to concede that the rules as listed are basically the best you're going to get.

[member="Romeo Sin"]
 
[member="Cyrus Tregessar"]

Of course, of course.

When you bring numbers in though, for OOC purposes, and making sure you dont go over board it helps a lot..for me at least. STILL

A few hundred ships are a lot, and more than enough really.

If done correctly.
 
The top Imperial Naval strength was 25,000 star destroyers plus lesser ships. Hand of Thrawn Duology.
But the Wookie articles on Imperial fleets numbers ships varies. The 27th Denarian fleet had 520 Vics before the Empire started selling them to replace them with Imperial class.
Or a Superiority fleet was listed as having an average of 390 ships with 6 of those being Imperial class Star destroyers.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Superiority_fleet
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/27th_Denarian_Fleet

I find the Superiority Fleet description a bit confusing as you hardly ever see ships smaller than SDs as primary combatants.

The Open Circle Fleet had over 1000 Venators, though the Imperial organization breaks it down to a single line of 1 to 9 ships depending on size and role.
 
I see no reason that the idea that the Empire has 25,000+ Star Destroyers to be outlandish.

Consider for a moment that the Galactic Empire had control of most of the galaxy at its height. Consider also how many planets we're talking about. There are an estimated 400 billion stars in the Star Wars galaxy, 180 billion star systems (Some systems have multiple stars). Even if we assume only half of this number to be the number of systems directly controlled by the Empire, that's still 90 billion some-odd systems. Even if one assumes that it takes a thousand systems to contribute to the construction of a single Star Destroyer at a time, that's still 90 million Star Destroyers.

When you're talking about a GALAXY worth of resources, the amount of raw materials we're talking about is utterly staggering. With the level of technology available to them, there's little they couldn't build in time.
 

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