Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos

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Every Dominion Should be an Invasion

I got this idea after reading/participating in a conversation on Discord regarding planetary annihilation/genocide/catastrophe on SWRP, To start off, I haven’t been on this board for long, but to me it seems like that the most significant planetary narratives that happen on Chaos happen during invasions. For example, the invasions of Atrisia deeply affected how the planet is viewed today, because of the fact that these actions transpired in invasion threads, rather than dominion threads. I believe that the reason why people respect the planetary narratives of devastated worlds like Atrisia, Kaeshana, and Eshan after so long is because these stories were written cooperatively, rather than by a group of writers with a singular purpose. In other words, when these planets underwent their legendary cataclysmic events, writers on the board from groups besides the conquering faction had the chance to write/create their own narratives as well.

Fundamentally, this is what good roleplay is about. If we want the stories that we write to have meaning and longevity, they have to be written collaboratively.

The logic behind Dominions flies in the face of the principles of good roleplay, because a single “I win” narrative is represented in these kinds of threads. If the events that transpired on Atrisia, Kaeshana, and Eshan had occurred during a dominion, rather than an invasion, rebellion, or some other collaborative PvP event, their memory would not have lasted past the expiration dates of the factions that were involved in the narratives. Major factions, especially dark-aligned ones commit some form of genocide in virtually every dominion thread that they write. However, the OOC memory of these events only last as long as the thread is active. Once that thread is done, the world that was conquered becomes just another planet living under the subjugation of a dark side empire. Anyone else who goes to write on the once-subjugated/brutally genocided planet simply disregards the narratives written during that dominion because in all likelihood, they weren’t there when those stories were written and they had no say in whether or not those events happened.

Eventually, these narratives go the way of the dodo and become irrelevant.

Now, I understand that implementing a suggestion like this would require a radical restructuring of the rules regarding the map game, factions, and SSDs. However, I would like to briefly explain how I envision this being implemented. Firstly, dominions would no longer be a surefire success for the conquering faction. Instead, PCs would be able to sign up to assist the defending NPCs and the outcome of the thread would be determined the same way invasions are now. No longer would Jedi sit idly by while dark side empires swallow up planets because of OOC rules which actively discourage opposing writers from posting in another faction’s dominion threads. This would also give us the opportunity to grant minor factions more power. Perhaps if a faction that attempts to invade/dominate a planet that is occupied by an active minor faction, that minor would be given some ability to fight on their terms.

I also believe that an idea like this would make for more diverse invasions other than massive fleet battles and ground PvP. We could have political invasions that involve IC debate, political maneuvering, propaganda campaigns, diplomacy, and more. The act of taking a planet would mean a lot more than just gaining a tiny hex on a map. In addition, this would also make the creation of large and powerful empires more meaningful. As it stands now, basically every 3 or 4 years ICly, galactic superpowers rise extremely fast and take up over half of the galaxy before crumbling in an instant. In all honesty, this makes very little sense and doesn’t do proper justice to the idea of galactic conquest.

Anyways, I think this is all I can bear to type in a single sitting for the time being. I’m happy to answer questions and discuss the pros/cons of this idea in this thread.

Thanks!

Edit: I've described in more detail how I envision this system working in post #14
 
Immortal Cyan said:
If the events that transpired on Atrisia, Kaeshana, and Eshan had occurred during a dominion, rather than an invasion, their memory would not have lasted past the expiration dates of the factions that were involved in the narratives.
Small correction: Atrisia and Kaeshana were Rebellions. In the case of Atrisia, the Dominion and its allies rebelled against GA's dominion. In fact, the Rebellion happened in the same thread as the dominion.

In the case of Kaeshana, the First Order and the Galactic Alliance/Tygaran Alliance got into a Dominion race, leading to a Rebellion thread. Both major factions had completed a Dominion (FO finished first, GA shortly thereafter), so a separate Rebellion thread was created.

You are correct about Eshan being an invasion though.
 
Siobhan Kerrigan said:


Small correction: Atrisia and Kaeshana were Rebellions. In the case of Atrisia, the Dominion and its allies rebelled against GA's dominion. In fact, the Rebellion happened in the same thread as the dominion.

In the case of Kaeshana, the First Order and the Galactic Alliance/Tygaran Alliance got into a Dominion race, leading to a Rebellion thread. Both major factions had completed a Dominion (FO finished first, GA shortly thereafter), so a separate Rebellion thread was created.

You are correct about Eshan being an invasion though.
Thanks for the clarification. I've went ahead and edited the OP to fix that mistake.
 
No.

Invasions are a huge drain - on members both involved and not involved, and on site staff.

Good roleplay is good whether or not it has the PvP factor in it.

IC debate, political maneuvering, propaganda campaigns, diplomacy, and more - can all be done as invasions these days (no one says the invasion must be a total war every single time), or in threads that aren't invasions.

More factions collaboration and working together would work amazingly for the board and for morale. Force it to only happen in invasions that are now mandatory and you've killed the site's spirit as well as the site staff's engine to remain both on site and on staff.

That said, I do love invasions, and wish there was more of them. But I don't want them to grow to the scope you're recommending here.
 
[member="Madalena Antares"]

I think you're taking the title too literally. This is entirely optional, more realistic and is on a far smaller scale than an actual invasion.

"Force it to only happen in invasions that are now mandatory and you've killed the site's spirit as well as the site staff's engine to remain both on site and on staff."

Let's not kid ourselves, the Chaos climate as is, has been slowly killing its spirit. When else does inter-factional pvp take place typically? Or interaction between factions that weren't already chums OOCly outside of invasions? This just adds versatility to the narratives.

And you're right, you don't need PvP to have good roleplay. But I gotta agree at the same time that factions constantly going unopposed in doms whilst, they might be well written isn't good roleplay. As, good roleplay isn't just how well written something is.

I agree we should make dominions less run of the mill, there shouldn't be a 'safe' option to conquer.

It took palpatine 20 years to take over like half the galaxy. Where as on chaos, becoming an Empire that comes close to challenging his is the same as a Saturday night quickie.
 

Caedyn Arenais

Guest
C
Invasions cater to the competitive players and those who genuinely enjoy the thrill of going up against another faction, but not everyone feels the same way. For some, it's just stressful and hard to keep up with.

Dominions cater to a faction's progression, and they're free to invite guests from other groups if they wish, but Dominion's also go at the pace of the controlling faction and can be controlled however said faction chooses without forcing PvP onto others.

While you have made some interesting points in your summary, I don't believe this is going to be a step forward for Chaos. There's currently no issues with Dominions, and it gives factions incentive to continue to grow, not just on the map but in terms of story, character development and as members of an exclusive group.

As ambitious as it is, I feel like this is a "don't fix what isn't broken" sort of thing. Staff are already looking at Invasions and ways of improving the system there, so hopefully some changes will be made to benefit the board as a whole without taking a key aspect of what makes a major-faction work, away from the players.
 
:: HERO of KORRIBAN ::
Moderator
There is a mechanism in place for this already. Any Major Factions 3rd and 4th dominion a month is able to be rebelled.

Also two major factions attempting a dominion on the same planet who finish in a certain window settle it by invasion protocol.

It seems to me you are asking for something that already exists in part. The major problem of course is most minor faction that could rebel won’t because the don’t have the manpower to do so. The other major problem is this idea ONLY WORKS with two factions which are adjacent. After all dominions are the mechanism for a faction to gain a hex if the do the work.
 
There isn't really any reason to implement what you have spoken of. It's up to the factions whether or not they include the other stories or not. Chaos is about freedom of story, and dominions are a good way to grow the factions space, create stories, and continue on. Many times dominions ARE remembered, they do have consequences. But that is up to the players. To force these kinds of things, doesn't honestly help the story any. But I get what you are going for.

But there is no reason for it. It creates logistical problems with who enforces it, it creates more conflicts (Which in some case can be good, but now that dark empire you want to stop, can hinder the progress of every other faction on the board if they desire). And many others. It has too many ways to be exploited, and creates unnecessary drama, without actually adding anything to the story.

It's not a horrible idea over all, but I don't feel its a realistic one to be able to implement on chaos without taking away a lot what makes chaos-chaos.
 
There's no rule about people from opposing factions posting in another faction's dominion thread. In fact, the Sith Empire have had multiple dominions where we cooperated with some Jedi or other parties to write some stories.

Also, I hate to repeat others but: Rebellions. They're exactly what you're describing.

Dominions probably aren't remembered because, most of the time, at least the ones i've participated in, nothing huge happens in them. Nothing huge enough worth remembering across the board anyway. Faction Admins usually drum up objectives like NPCs in Skyrim: collect X, free X from X, or celebrate X, simple things that aren't really, for lack of a better word, worthy of remembering past the dominion. Sometimes, if you got the right group of people, you'll do something in a dominion worth remembering like the time my Confederacy sniper saved [member="Darth Metus"] during the Utapau dominion many years ago.

And I don't recall any genocidal dominions the Sith have done since we roflstomped Togoria. Unless I missed one sometime recently.
 
The map game is already competitive enough in its current state - and while I totally agree with the spirit of the suggestion, the implementation would leave the majority of the writer base dissatisfied. From what I know, the minority of the site actually prefers PvP/Competitive Writing. To take the bread and butter threads of a faction and put it in that category will leave people who just want to help their faction grow, without the PvP, displaced.

Additionally, this could be abused until the cows came home. If I'm understanding your suggestion correctly, enough adversaries could sign on to repel these Dominions to the point where a major faction can't move. And while that's not a problem for the larger communities, it could make or break the newer ones full stop.

Lastly, this would tremendously increase the amount of effort expended by the RPJs, as someone would need to declare a winner for these threads. The average invasion can run between 300-500 posts - and usually, there's less than ten a year. There are usually 2-3 Dominions completed a month, per major faction. You'd need a major faction's worth of RPJs just to judge these.

In all, I think that encouraging the mindset of factions opening their Dominions when there are major genocides/battles would be the easier alternative. In doing so, the major gets to flex its warmachine muscles and their story becomes site canon, as opposed to faction canon. Optional of course.
 
I agree with most of the writers here that don't believe we need to add this to invasions, however. I will point out that the Dominion of Eshan by the UCM lead to the Invasion and is still talked about. So Dominions can have a lasting affect. It is just most Dominions are of planets most writers aren't interested in or of significance beyond expanding a Major Factions territory.

They are compelling and interesting to the writer base in the moment and can lead to big character developments. A lot of my major character developments with Yuroic have started in Dominions and affected his arcs in ways I would not expect.
 
Darth Metus said:
In all, I think that encouraging the mindset of factions opening their Dominions when there are major genocides/battles would be the easier alternative. In doing so, the major gets to flex its warmachine muscles and their story becomes site canon, as opposed to faction canon. Optional of course.

Yea, this.
 
[member="Darth Metus"] [member="Jay Scott Clark"] [member="Yuroic Xeraic"] [member="Darth Athora"] [member="Allya Vi'Dreya"] [member="Judah Lesan"] [member="Caedyn Arenais"] [member="Madalena Antares"]

I believe that some people are misinterpreting how a system like this would manifest, which is my fault because I failed to fully explain how this would change the map game in my original post. I’ll do my best to rectify that error in the next few paragraphs.

Firstly, I believe that this suggestion would shift the focus of the map game from one of relentless expansion to methodical development. In order for a faction to gain a single unoccupied hex, they would need to write an invasion. Writers from other factions/groups would be allowed to join this thread in order to support or oppose the conquering faction. There could be some sort of limit to the number of outside writers that would be allowed to join an invasion to oppose it (I think 10-15 is a good number), but that’s a bridge to cross later. Obviously, the faction that launches this invasion (presumably the attacker), would not be allowed to select their opposition. The victor of this invasion would be determined through the same way that invasions are now. If the attacking faction loses, they would not receive the hex. Conversely, if the defending group of writers wins, then they would have successfully stopped a faction (which they are presumably opposed to) from expanding their territory on the map.

Given the amount of effort needed to take a hex under this new system, I imagine that the amount of hexes that active major factions gain per month would significantly decrease. Under our current system, most major factions run 3 or 4 invasions in a year. However, because there would no longer be any dominions in this new system, I predict that the average amount of invasions that a single major faction initiates in a year would increase to any number between 6 and 10. Assuming a 50% win rate, a major would typically gain 3 to 5 hexes in a year. As I understand it, staff/RPJs also have to read through dominion threads in order to verify their completion. However, without any dominions to read through, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that more energy could be dedicated to judging invasion threads.

The reason why I stated that the current rules actively discourage writing as opposition in dominion threads is because an opposing writer still helps an attacking faction fulfill the 50 post requirement needed for validation of the dominion, no matter what actions their character takes in the thread. Under our current system, if an individual writes a Jedi character and they see a dark side faction initiate a dominion with an objective of genocide, they are better off not writing in the thread to begin with so as to not contribute to the dominion’s post count.

In essence, I envision that under this system, most factional conflict would occur through one or multiple factions/groups of writers endeavoring to stop another faction from gaining territory on the map. A Jedi faction would presumably intervene in a lot of Sith invasions on unoccupied hexes (which would be referred to as dominions under the current system), in order to stop the Sith from glassing the planet and genociding the population. A Sith faction could involve themselves in a Jedi invasion on an unoccupied hex (which again, would be referred to as a dominion under the current system) to do just that. If we wanted, we could even allow factions to capture hexes that are not linked to their primary “cloud”.

To conclude this post, I feel that this system encourages real consequences to actions on the map. In truth, I don't think that a faction should be able to take a single planet without going up against real PC opposition. Factions should have to pay a real price in order to gain territory and 50 posts isn't nearly enough.
 
I say go for it. Sounds spicey and dicey. Every Dominion would be a high risk high reward kinda thing and they would become better on the spot. Things would explode more often, lightsabers would clash on the daily, epic and legendary battles that already do happen "offscreen" written by Dominions already that almost no one ever takes into consideration would suddenly be given meaning.

Party Crashers, Rouge Terrorist organizations, Gates of Thermopilae moments would happen way more often and would mean a lot more. If you don't have an interest in epic and legendary conflicts or... idk... a bit of chaos. Keep it how it is fam.
 
I'm new here, I'll start with that!


Never been a part of a Dominion or Invasion, but from what I've read above me: Why not add spice, sauce, and habaneros to the mix right? For one reason or another, we writers showed up on this site called Chaos: so let the voices be heard!

Again, I'm new.
 
I N C A P A C I T A T E D
I feel the Newbie has a point. Dommoins can become boring and the fact the minor factions wouldn't even be able to defend themselves from what they view as corrupt empires. Minors have a particularly small voice regarding the planets they took the time to work together and control. It would make thinngs a wee bit intresting. The ability to show how these planets actually feel about an intrisive neighbor seizong control of thier planet. Now I also belive the name of this topic should be changed. For obvious reasons. We have so much to do here. It's about giving the SWRP community a nice refreshing chance to interact with each other
 

Jsc

Disney's Princess
Immortal Cyan said:
I don't think that a faction should be able to take a single planet without going up against real PC opposition.
We get what you're saying. And we still disagree. For all the reasons we already listed above.



Custani Valcho said:
Dommoins can become boring and the fact the minor factions wouldn't even be able to defend themselves from what they view as corrupt empires. Minors have a particularly small voice regarding the planets they took the time to work together and control.
1. Dominions are not boring in and of themselves. The people who write boring Dominions are boring. Fix: Knock it off.
2. Minor Factions don't control territory. The people who think Minor Factions control territory are digging themselves a hole. Fix: Knock it off.



Mikilanna Mihaly said:
Never been a part of a Dominion or Invasion, but from what I've read above me: Why not add spice, sauce, and habaneros to the mix right?
To borrow your phrase. Because Invasions and Dominions are already spicy, saucy, and habanero'ed to the max. Lol.

Also. This website and it's Major Factions aren't 100% about PvP, all the time. To quote from experience. As one of the Admins of one of the largest Major Factions ever. Not everybody liked participating in free-form PvP as their only contribution to the growth, activity, and social clout of the faction. The PvE people wanted to contribute just as much. The Factory Space Lego people wanted to contribute just as much. The Political Drama Thread people wanted to contribute just as much. The Soldiers, Pilots, and Fleeters wanted to contribute just as much. The Grey and Neutral Forcers wanted to contribute just as much. Everybody wanted their specific style of niche writing to "mean" something big and potent. And to get a trophy for it.

So we tried, (and many factions still try,) to give all of these different types of writers and artists ways to contribute towards Major Faction writing in big, big ways. Especially since Major Factions can often have a minority of people who enjoy, or are even proficient at, free form PvP in all it's wild varieties. (From duels, to fleeting, to throwing dice like DnD, to even a few dance offs or rhyme games.) Again. The idea was to give as many people, and as many styles of writing as possible, a chance to contribute meaningfully and profoundly to the Map Game. Not just the people who say, "PC opposition is the best way."

We aimed to use the diversity of our writers community as a benefit. Not to just create a one opinion utopia of "this is the only right way to do it," this is how you "win."
 
I N C A P A C I T A T E D
[member="Jay Scott Clark"]

You are forgetting that Majors have had to be Minors to become Majors. You're simple fix will not work. I will not pretend that I am comfortable with the Faction syestem. Minors should not be allowed to do Doms yes. But they should at least have a chance to protect what they 'Belive' is thiers: Fix
 

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