Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos

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Discussion: Adding Yuuzhan Vong bio-technology and Ysalamiri to the Restricted Materials list

John Ash

Only by Fire do we become Ash.
[member="Lily Kuhn"]

Nope. I doubt a second set of bral would be allowed to be used by the same faction Especially a stealthed version. That one is defensive, but it is countered by artillery pretty bad. Even if the rounds don't damage the unit you have to worry about overstimulating the ysalamir causing their hearts to give out.
 
FU: Yes plz no more ysalamiri
NFU: plz keep ysalamiri

It's almost like everyone's opinion is bias HRMMMMM



Be responsible for Ysalamiri, there are counter actions you can take. I just did a skirmish against a bunch of FU's and their first attack killed the nutrient pack Julian was wearing by standing outside the bubble and throwing a cart at Julian's pack with the force. SPLAT goes the reptile.

Just like people need to be responsible with Beskar, disruptor rifles, shatter guns, lightsabers.. THE FORCE. The Force can literally create tsunamis and whirlwinds and somehow a ysalamiri is unfair smh
 

Genesis Rostu

Guest
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All restricting Ysalamir would do is reduce its usage to Semi-Unique without a t6 company pushing it to Limited.

Semi-Unique means ten Mandalorians can stand shoulder to shoulder and have far-reaching coverage.

So I don't see how adding Ysalamir, or Vong Tech, to the list will do anything. Egregious uses of either (RIP OG Bral) get reported and pullled for imbalance/abuse as it is.

That, and Ysalamir are the go-to counter for ridiculous force usage. The fact that they are publicly available makes them a viable weakness to every Alchemy/Force-related submission. The fact that they're publicly available gives the new guy and his NPC squad a fighting chance against Darth I-Can-Throw-Star-Destroyers.

Not seeing the benefit. It's a no from me. :/
 
Have people tried the "don't be a dick" strategy with ysalimir? I feel like that'd be a great starting point.

Making something a restricted material doesn't stop its abuse. It just makes people put in slightly more effort to abuse it. This won't do anything but make existing ysalimir-based tech stronger by nerfing all future options. Negatory.

Source: Also FU main. Fought against brals.
 

Klesta

The King of Ergonomic Assessments
[member="John Ash"] My starting point to give at least a modicum of NFU functionality to a FU in a duel would be proficiency with ranged weapons, preferrably something that can reasonably hit at longer ranges. To me it seems that some FU-intensive writers may be unable to adapt to dueling at long range, or that longer-ranged dueling seems unappealing from a storytelling standpoint. Or that the storytelling rewards of fighting the opponent face-to-face would somehow outweigh the long-range liability, which I feel it doesn't. One may also wish to ask the question: why is it that most FU-intensive writers seem to be willing to duel other PCs only at point-blank range or otherwise at short range, and be unwilling or unable to fight at longer ranges?
 
Knowing how quickly many of these threads descend into Chaotic bickering, I'd like to applaud everyone for maintaining civil discourse in spite of the disagreements you may have.

[member="Fabula Caromed"]

I agree entirely, but one of the points I wanted to raise with this is that Ysalamiri and Vong Bio-tech currently do not require the same level of effort as the other technologies on the RM list in spite of offering very similar capabilities. Yes, there is a soft cap on that as many judges are already treating both of these as semi-restricted when they hit the factory and need to be balanced. But is leaving the Vong Bio-tech and Ysalamiri avenue off of the restricted material list really the best option when balancing against the other avenues already policed by the list? Especially considering the high standards judges already use when balancing these currently? Would it not make things clearer to just add these to the RM list so some of the less familiar submitters know what they are getting into when they try to use these organisms in a submission?
 
Jay Scott Clark said:
I'm pro NFU empowerment.

Right. But why do we have Restricted Materials in the first place, if we're not concerned about balancing out the abilities they provide to those who use them? If we don't care that Biots can resist Lightsabers and Ysalamiri can offer extremely effective protection against The Force, then why do we keep any of the Restricted Materials on that list?
 
I see a lot of people pointing fingers and then people reacting to those accusatory fingers on the matter of "who is a FU and who is not". We are all FU's and NFU's, whenever we want to be. The point is moot when one is considering whether someone is biased or not, since we all have the capability to host multiple faces with as many types of identities as we want, whenever we want to.

Hint: we are all biased with our own opinions, because nothing we are currently discussing are factual, and are 100% opinions.

This isn't a "Pro-NFU" or "Pro-FU" thread. This thread is about adding something to a Restricted List because the items in question have similar capabilities to the other items on that list.

So either these don't get added, or maybe we should consider just getting rid of the list altogether and giving complete discretion to the Factory Judges who already do too much work for our entertainment.

That will be my last 2 cents here :p
 
Triam Akovin said:
So either these don't get added, or maybe we should consider just getting rid of the list altogether and giving complete discretion to the Factory Judges who already do too much work for our entertainment.

That will be my last 2 cents here :p
Once upon a time, it was an important distinction for something to be RM or not. But now, with the current 8-point resistance rating and the (strict-ish) manner in which Factory Judges require a submission to balance out its resistances against its list of strengths and weaknesses... the final product gets pretty well balanced regardless of what it's made of. There are some sticking points I have against some things, such as "maybe the more extreme ends of advanced starship sensors, components, shields, weapons, exc should require a point or two of rating reductions to keep them more fairly balanced" (which is entirely off-topic and not worth discussing here)... But by and large, the Judges have been doing a very good job lately.

If we get rid of the current RM list, and keep the Judges doing what they do in terms of ratings limitations, then things should be just fine.

If we keep the RM list and add to it based on the capabilities of a given material, and the Judges continue doing what they are doing, then things should also be just fine.

Either way, I think things will balance out. I'd just like to see things swing one way or the other. I have my preference and I entirely understand if others feel differently. I also understand if people don't want to bother and just want to keep things as they are.
 
There are good arguments to be made on both sides of this equation.

On a site with tighter standards in regards to conduct in combat, restricting Vong and ysalamiri would make a great deal of sense. But since we live in a world where people throw Star Destroyers, stop hypersonic tank rounds, and perform bicycle kicks with the power of their minds, it's kinda hard to justify. I think we can all agree that Rule of Cool seems to be a higher priority than strict adherence to anything resembling etiquette in these parts.

There are plenty of folks who put the FU back in Force User. Let the NFUs stay spicy and crack down on individual cases as needed.
 
[member="Captain Larraq"] Hmm... I wouldn't lump in all Vong tech as overpowered. A lot of it comes with its own serious drawbacks and is not necessarily difficult to counter, while only serving the purpose of providing an interesting alternative to standard items. Dovin Basals, for example, just require a readjustment of your weapons' firing pattern, a second salvo fired immediately after the first and curbed around the microsingularity that is gobbling up the first salvo. Most Vong tech is nowhere nearly as devastating and powerful as it seems to have a reputation for and merely requires more unorthodox methods to counter, which by this point, should be fairly well known in the galaxy, given that they were developed during the Vong war hundreds of years ago. The Wookiepedia pages for Vong items contain such information and there is also nothing stopping board members from coming up with their own creative ways to get around/counter it.

On the topic of lightsaber resistance, you are wrong, however. Both Vonduun Crab armor and Amphistaffs are lightsaber resistant and I remember it posing a challenge to the Jedi characters in the books. So these should probably be added to the RM lists, if lightsaber resistant materials are restricted in general.

Other than that, given the fact that Vong biots were, essentially, farmed, it makes no IC sense why it could not be mass-produced, especially since in the books, their cultivation seemed easy enough that the Vong used slaves for the task, who had no previous experience with such biots. Given enough time, a faction could mass-produce such tech. Plus a blanket restriction could impede a Yuuzhan Vong faction from being created and I do not see this as a good thing.

As for Ysalamiri, they probably should be added to the RM lists, simply to prevent situations such as plastering an entire army with them (for example, having each and every single NPC soldier have one). Use of Ysalamiri should be restricted to player characters only and unique/semi-unique NPC submissions.
 

sabrina

Well-Known Member
As someone who has used and fought against Ysalamiri, I would say no issues with them.
Sure during one invasion, I lost due to being shot, thanks to be in one.
No problems with that, as that is the game we play.
Though I did get it out stealth by carpet bombing the area.
Also as read what [member="John Ash"] said, this is also true for my character.
As one point to prepare for this she got addicted to death sticks, so she would not panic if she loses ability to use the force.
Also I always have wrist blaster for that reason.
Though an army of NPC, using them is a bit far fetched.
Though single person or small groups yeah sure.
As vong tech no issues with it again, though never had to fight against it, or have I used it.
Though the idea, of having a list of what force powers can and can not do, does appeal to me.
 

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