Approved Starship Cinderhawk-class Elite Interceptor

[AMCO]

OUT OF CHARACTER INFORMATION

• Intent: To create a state-of-the-art interceptor for Vandiir Consolidated Holdings.
• Image Source: [X] - The-Xie
• Canon Link: N/A
• Restricted Missions: N/A
• Primary Source: N/A

PRODUCTION INFORMATION

• Manufacturer: Vandiir Consolidated Holdings
• Model: Cinderhawk-class Elite Interceptor
• Affiliation: Closed-Market
• 
  Production: Limited
  
• Material: Reflec-coated Duranium-Trimantium Hull, Transparisteel Cockpit, Reinforced Agrinium-Alusteel Reactor Core Housing.

TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS

• Classification: Elite Interceptor
• Length: 16.25 metres
• Width: 5.75 metres (Space); 13.75 metres with wings extended (Atmospheric)
• Height: 3 metres
• Armament: Low (Very Low when SLAM is activated)
  One Nose-Mounted Heavy Maser Cannon
• Two Fire-Linked Rapid-Fire Maser Cannons

[*]Defences: Average
[*]Squadron Count: Low [8]
[*]Manoeuvrability Rating: Very High (Moderate when SLAM is activated)
[*]Speed Rating: High (Extreme when SLAM is activated)
[*]Hyperdrive Class: 5
STANDARD FEATURES

• Power Generator
• Ion Drive
• Manoeuvring Jets
• Communications Systems
• Targeting Systems
• Full Sensor Suite
• Compact Hyperdrive
• Life Support Suite
• Ejection Seat
• Inertial Compensator
• Repulsorlifts
• Deflector Shield Generator

ADVANCED SYSTEMS

• Shroud
• SLAM
• WhisperThrust Engine
• Electronic Countermeasures

Strengths:

• Bird of Prey: With its high speed and exceptional manoeuvrability, the Cinderhawk is built for one purpose and one purpose alone: Running circles around other starfighters before reducing them to space debris.
• Slippery Eel: The combination of a reflec-coated hull, electronic countermeasures, and a baffled sublight drive means that the Cinderhawk is difficult to detect through most forms of sensors, though much less so at close range. The reflec-coating and ECM additionally make it difficult to establish a targeting lock on the vessel at long ranges, with its manoeuvrability serving a similar purpose in dogfights, while the shroud device prevents tractor beams from locking on to it.
• The Speed of Insanity: While normally fast, it is possible for the pilot of a Cinderhawk to throw caution to the wind and activate the SLAM overdrive, allowing the ship to outrun most other Starfighters on the market, though doing so comes at the expense of manoeuvrability and firepower.

Weaknesses:

• Slow Hyperdrive: While possessing a Hyperdrive, the slow speed and limited range mean that a carrier will be required for most operations.
• Imperfect Stealth: Despite its impressive capabilities, it is far from perfect. First of all, the WhisperThrust Engine only works at normal speeds, which takes away one of the Cinderhawk's primary selling points, while at high speeds the Cinderhawk can be targeted through its exhaust wake. Furthermore, the vessel has no means of concealing its communications, and therefore must maintain radio silence for the extent of any stealth operation. Finally, its stealth capabilities are drastically less effective in short ranges, especially against active sensors.
• Not for the Everyman: While certainly impressive, its ludicrous mobility is wasted in the hands of all but the most experienced pilots.
• Limited Weaponry: Armed with only energy weapons and a limited loadout at that, given its price, the Cinderhawk is not much use against capital ships.
• Arcane Design: As is the case for many of VCH's products, the mind-numbingly complex internal systems means that any attempt to make all but basic repairs and regular maintenance without an exceptional technician and/or a state of the art workshop is highly inadvisable.
• Sensor Reliance: While it's long and sleek frame is an advantage in that it makes it harder for enemies to hit it, it also means that the view from the cockpit is highly limited, especially considering the mobility of the vessel. If its sensors were to be knocked out by a strong enough Ion burst, the vessel would quickly become a flying coffin for all but the most well-trained force sensitive pilots.
• Unlimited Power: The Cinderhawk, quite frankly, has an absurd amount of power hungry sub-systems. The only way in which VCH's engineers could get it to work was by installing a dangerously volatile power core. Any direct hit to the core that penetrates the Agrinium-Alusteel housing is likely to vaporize the ship and anyone unfortunate enough to be near it. Even if the pilot ejects in time, wearing a highly radiation-resistant flight suit is a must, unless they want to see which type of cancer kills them first.

Description:
Originally setting out to create a baseline interceptor, the engineering department soon realised that there was no way they would be able to integrate the vast array of features the Board wanted into a standard-issue starfighter, and so production was lowered to make up for the considerable cost. Development raised a number of other issues, however. Chief amongst them, the multitude of power-hungry systems eventually forced the engineering team to install a particularly volatile reactor core to keep the program from stagnating entirely, as no stable substitute could be found that did not also require expertise they did not have or rare materials that were simply too expensive, even for an elite starfighter. Nevertheless, the project eventually managed to produce a truly exceptional interceptor, which, despite the high production cost and considerable developmental expenses, was considered a resounding success by the Company, Executive Director Adrian Vandiir in particular.

Designed to be flown by a single pilot and an astromech, the vessel is renowned for its mobility, overtaking most other interceptors on the market by a considerable margin, though it's not without its own drawbacks. Despite the addition of an astromech and advanced sensors and targeting systems, the vessel has little to no flight assistance, which, combined with its extreme mobility, means that only the most experienced interceptor pilots should be let anywhere near it, though the price tag would likely necessitate this anyway.

In order to facilitate a wider range of operations for the highly specialised interceptor, a number of stealth systems have been added, though none are nearly as effective as a stygium cloak. The vessel can still be spotted visually, though not easily, thanks to the light-warping properties of its relfec coating. Furthermore, active sensors might be able to discern its location, and the vessel has no safeguards whatsoever against gravitic sensors. Nevertheless, its capabilities allow it to undertake a number of stealthy tasks, though the limited hyperdrive range means that incursions deep into enemy territory are going to be impossible without a dedicated stealth carrier to bring it there, and its lack of heavier armaments means that it is poorly suited for hit-and-run attacks on enemy facilities. In the end, even with all the advanced hardware one would expect in an elite starfighter, it is still an interceptor and should be treated as such.

 

[Gir Quee]

Under Review.

 

[Gir Quee]

Manufacturer: Vandiir Consolidated Holdings

I'd recommend adding "starships" to this company's operations through a company modification request when you have the chance, but "aerospace" arguably could cover this submission's production.

Squadron Count: 8

If you'll add the rating here as well ("Low:8").

STANDARD FEATURES Advanced Power Generator Bleeding Edge Ion Drive Bleeding Edge Maneuvering Jets Standard Communications Systems Advanced Targeting Systems Advanced Sensor Suite Compact Hyperdrive Life Support Suite Ejection Seat Advanced Inertial Compensator Repulsorlifts Deflector Shield Generator

Tell me a little bit more about what makes the "advanced" systems advanced. Are they any different from standard systems? Or is the "advanced" part more of a fluff that suggests that they're quality, top of the line equipment?

Slippery Eel: The combination of a reflect-coated hull, a baffled sublight drive, and short-range sensor jammers means that the Cinderhawk is invisible to all but the most sophisticated active sensors or, for that matter, looking out a viewport if it's close enough. This additionally makes it all but impossible to target the vessel, while the shroud prevents tractor beams from locking on to it.

Having this much stealth technology on it crosses the line into significant stealth capabilities, which means that production will have to change to "semi-unique". Alternatively, we can keep production at "Limited" with the removal of either the reflec-coating or the baffled sublight drive. A couple of notes on the technologies listed here.

The Whisperthrust baffled sublight drive is only effective at "Low to Medium" speeds.

Sensor jammers don't actually make ships invisible to sensors at close range. The 4x Phantom Jammer entry breaks it up a little bit better by stating that a DERP makes it hard to spot at a distance, but this does not work at close ranges, where it needs a full spectrum distortion projector to block sensor scans. This actually leads into our next issue:

Sophisticated Short-Range Sensor Jammer

Sensor Reliance: While it's long and sleek frame is an advantage in that it makes it harder for enemies to hit it, it also means that the view from the cockpit is highly limited, especially considering the mobility of the vessel. If its sensors were to be knocked out by a strong enough Ion burst, the vessel would quickly become a flying coffin for all but the most well-trained force sensitive pilots.

From the Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology, page 128:

The ability to prevent the enemy from gathering intelligence about one's forces can be a significant factor in achieving victory. Sensor jammers accomplish this by producing by producing broad-spectrum bursts tht block sensor readings. While jamtmers affect all ships in the area-friendly and enemy vessels....Once the enemy is engaged, the jammer's full-spectrum distortion projector uses broadband emissions to block all scanners and targeting computers.

Essentially, activating the jammer renders the ship's own sensors useless. With how the ship is currently written as being highly reliant on sensors to fly, this is going to make using a sensor jammer very dangerous to this ship's pilot.

 

[AMCO]

I'd recommend adding "starships" to this company's operations through a company modification request when you have the chance, but "aerospace" arguably could cover this submission's production.

Aerospace Engineering was meant to cover Starship construction and the construction of space stations. If that is too broad for a single operation, I would prefer to keep it as is, but do a thread to expand the company's operations to include space station construction. That way, I get to keep my preferred naming, and I don't have to bother anyone with an insignificant request like that. (For the same reason I'll be bundling up expansions with tie-ups and aesthetic improvements, because I figure you judges already have enough to do without having to continuously update a company for the smallest of reasons.)

If you'll add the rating here as well ("Low:8").

I was under the impression that one could write just the number, as that seems to be the norm. I'm not asking to be rude, I just prefer to make absolutely sure when it comes to things that will need to be accounted for in future submissions.

Tell me a little bit more about what makes the "advanced" systems advanced. Are they any different from standard systems? Or is the "advanced" part more of a fluff that suggests that they're quality, top of the line equipment?

"Advanced" is part of the fluff, and is meant to make it clear to people who might use this what is and what isn't the focus of the vessel. More expensive starfighters would have more advanced hardware too, I just figured I would state what the focus of the model was, as opposed to a general assumption that "everything is a bit better than normal".

---

Regarding the stealth and sensor jammers:
I've removed the jammers and added a note about how the WhisperThrust Engine only works at low speeds. If the vessel is still too stealthy, then you need only give me the word, and I'll either remove the WhisperThrust drive entirely or lower its efficiency, perhaps by stating that it's a compact model unable to hide the exhaust wake as well as the usual model. Up to you.


---

Misc. Changes:
Discovered that I was using a secondary source. Corrected this. Changed image so that it is sourced from my Imgur, so as to make sure that even if one source goes down, the image could still be found easily enough.

Changed the wings so that they are extended in atmosphere and retracted in space, mostly because that made much more sense than the pretty nonsensical thing I had about the wings increasing manoeuvrability. Somehow. (I quite frankly don't know what I was thinking.)

 

[Gir Quee]

Aerospace Engineering was meant to cover Starship construction and the construction of space stations. If that is too broad for a single operation, I would prefer to keep it as is, but do a thread to expand the company's operations to include space station construction. That way, I get to keep my preferred naming, and I don't have to bother anyone with an insignificant request like that. (For the same reason I'll be bundling up expansions with tie-ups and aesthetic improvements, because I figure you judges already have enough to do without having to continuously update a company for the smallest of reasons.)

I don't see an issue with it for smaller craft like fighters, shuttles, and other small starships. I think that Aerospace has more of connotation of a focus on atmospheric flight in a star wars setting (so airspeeders, atmospheric fighters, other flying vehicles). But this shouldn't be an issue for something of this size. I'd probably suggest updating it though if you're trying to make a large space station.

I was under the impression that one could write just the number, as that seems to be the norm. I'm not asking to be rude, I just prefer to make absolutely sure when it comes to things that will need to be accounted for in future submissions.

This may not be something enforced by all judges because people can generally figure out the rating based on looking at the numbers. However, there are submissions out that which use numbers (as an example, 17) that aren't linked to a specific rating. Because of that, I always ask for ratings to go with it. I'll point out that all of the template examples for starfighters have the rating listed next to the squadron count along with the number of ships listed in a squadron.

"Advanced" is part of the fluff, and is meant to make it clear to people who might use this what is and what isn't the focus of the vessel. More expensive starfighters would have more advanced hardware too, I just figured I would state what the focus of the model was, as opposed to a general assumption that "everything is a bit better than normal".

So does this have any practical effect(s) on any of the specific gameplay with this ship?

Regarding the stealth and sensor jammers: I've removed the jammers and added a note about how the WhisperThrust Engine only works at low speeds. If the vessel is still too stealthy, then you need only give me the word, and I'll either remove the WhisperThrust drive entirely or lower its efficiency, perhaps by stating that it's a compact model unable to hide the exhaust wake as well as the usual model. Up to you.

That's fine. I wouldn't have an issue with it working at "normal" or "average" speeds either. You're welcome to increase that part up to that level if you'd like.

 

[AMCO]

I don't see an issue with it for smaller craft like fighters, shuttles, and other small starships. I think that Aerospace has more of connotation of a focus on atmospheric flight in a star wars setting (so airspeeders, atmospheric fighters, other flying vehicles). But this shouldn't be an issue for something of this size. I'd probably suggest updating it though if you're trying to make a large space station.

Hmm, I was thinking of making bigger ships and stations eventually. What do you think of changing it to "Shipbuilding" and "Macroengineering" respectively? It would, of course, require either an operation expansion thread or one of the expansions when I tier up, but I don't mind.

This may not be something enforced by all judges because people can generally figure out the rating based on looking at the numbers. However, there are submissions out that which use numbers (as an example, 17) that aren't linked to a specific rating. Because of that, I always ask for ratings to go with it. I'll point out that all of the template examples for starfighters have the rating listed next to the squadron count along with the number of ships listed in a squadron.

That's a shame. I think the pure numbers look cleaner, and I do love my clean aesthetics. Oh well, you're the judge. Do you mind if I continue to write only numbers on future submissions but edit it to include the rating too if you turn out to be the one judging it? (Please don't make me put a ":" a word after another ":" though. That looks so messy.)

So does this have any practical effect(s) on any of the specific gameplay with this ship?

Probably not. People will generally assume that more advanced ships have more advanced systems, it's only meant to give people a hint at what is the most advanced. It probably won't have much of a practical effect, since most of it is pretty obvious or already stated in the Strengths and Weaknesses.

That's fine. I wouldn't have an issue with it working at "normal" or "average" speeds either. You're welcome to increase that part up to that level if you'd like.

Change it to "normal speeds", though I imagine that it would be more effective the slower the vessel goes. That's sort of implicit, however, so I didn't put it in.

 

[Gir Quee]

Hmm, I was thinking of making bigger ships and stations eventually. What do you think of changing it to "Shipbuilding" and "Macroengineering" respectively? It would, of course, require either an operation expansion thread or one of the expansions when I tier up, but I don't mind.

"Starships" as an operation generally covers space stations as well, since a space station is basically a starship without engines.

That's a shame. I think the pure numbers look cleaner, and I do love my clean aesthetics. Oh well, you're the judge. Do you mind if I continue to write only numbers on future submissions but edit it to include the rating too if you turn out to be the one judging it? (Please don't make me put a ":" a word after another ":" though. That looks so messy.)

I think that in general, we will want the rating to be explicitly listed.

Probably not. People will generally assume that more advanced ships have more advanced systems, it's only meant to give people a hint at what is the most advanced. It probably won't have much of a practical effect, since most of it is pretty obvious or already stated in the Strengths and Weaknesses.

Unfortunately, we do have people who try to sneak things in by not explicitly listing them in the strengths, or just by assuming that it's okay to do so. Because of that, if you'll make a note somewhere in the description itself that this is more of a fluff (something like "top of the line power generators", etc) so no-one gets tries to use the "advanced" description to justify some ridiculous in the future.

Change it to "normal speeds", though I imagine that it would be more effective the slower the vessel goes. That's sort of implicit, however, so I didn't put it in.

That sounds fine to me.

 

[AMCO]

"Starships" as an operation generally covers space stations as well, since a space station is basically a starship without engines.

Works for me. I might still go with "Shipbuilding" and "Macroengineering" though, as that opens up more options and is clearer, at least in my eyes. (Plus, if I want to build the really big stations at some point in the future, I don't think "Starships" would be a good fit for that.)

I think that in general, we will want the rating to be explicitly listed.

Alright. I will make sure to change the submissions I'm currently working on and keep that in mind in the future.

Unfortunately, we do have people who try to sneak things in by not explicitly listing them in the strengths, or just by assuming that it's okay to do so. Because of that, if you'll make a note somewhere in the description itself that this is more of a fluff (something like "top of the line power generators", etc) so no-one gets tries to use the "advanced" description to justify some ridiculous in the future.

"In the end, even with all the advanced hardware one would expect in an elite starfighter, it is still an interceptor and should be treated as such." (Underline not in description) There we go. Changed the last line to part to reflect that. Is that sufficient?

---

Thanks for the patience, by the way.

 

[Gir Quee]

"In the end, even with all the advanced hardware one would expect in an elite starfighter, it is still an interceptor and should be treated as such." (Underline not in description) There we go. Changed the last line to part to reflect that. Is that sufficient?

It's a good step. Unfortunately, I've seen something very similar put into a sub in the past, where someone who later used it said that because the equipment was "elite", it was better than someone else's equipment who had just listed it "regular" in their submission. I realize that this probably wouldn't be an issue with you, but because I have to judge to the lowest common denominator .

A simple solution would be to keep that sentence, but add a simple OOC disclaimer near the end that the "advanced hardware" actually isn't any better than standard equipment for gameplay purposes.

 

[AMCO]

A simple solution would be to keep that sentence, but add a simple OOC disclaimer near the end that the "advanced hardware" actually isn't any better than standard equipment for gameplay purposes.

"(* Any hardware not explicitly or implicitly stated to be superior to the norm through the Strengths, Weaknesses, and Technical Specifications should be assumed to be functionally identical to those on comparable Starfighters.)"

^^ I made that whole disclaimer, then realized that it was probably a safer bet to keep the fluff to the description and away from the "Standard Features". I kept the "Compact Hyperdrive", but only as a reference to the "Slow Hyperdrive" Weakness, after all, the reason for its lack of speed has more to do with space restrictions than power or expenditure restrictions. That should eliminate the potential for misunderstandings entirely, at least in regards to that section.

 

[Gir Quee]

Now that we've got the core concepts nailed down, let's talk about wording.

Slippery Eel: The combination of a reflec-coated hull and a baffled sublight drive means that the Cinderhawk is all but invisible to most forms of sensors. The reflec-coating additionally makes it nigh-impossible to get a targeting lock on the vessel, while the shroud prevents tractor beams from locking on to it.

This needs to be downgraded somewhat to pass at "Limited". The "is all but invisible" needs to go, otherwise it looks like it's equivalent to a cloaking device, which would clearly place this at the semi-unique status.

Chaos subs typically interpret Reflec in a couple of different ways to make use of it on larger production ships. One is that it simply only provides some visual stealth (but nothing against things like DERs or EPR sensors). People sometimes will describe it as bending light so that it appears like a dark mass (which is still visible at close distances or against certain backdrops) or that it can change color to better match the background (like real life camouflage). The general effect of these options is that it makes it more difficult to spot at range (but not close up).

Another option is to have the Reflec give it a lower sensor profile (but still observable with typical sensors, even if they don't immediately realize what it is). In many ways, this is broadly equivalent to modern day stealth aircraft showing up on radar as objects that look like birds.

Similarly, the "nigh-impossible to get a targeting lock" will need to be downgraded to something like "difficult to get a targeting lock at long ranges".

allowing the ship to outrun virtually any other Starfighter on the market,

If you'll change "virtually any other" to "many" or "most". There are other starfighters out there with "Extreme" listed as the speed, which means that they'll at least be keeping pace with this ship.

while at high speeds sufficiently advanced sensors can target the Cinderhawk through its exhaust wake, though this isn't quite as effective as targeting the vessel by normal means.

If you'll removed "advanced" from this sentence. The Whisperthrust entry in Pirates and Privateers makes no mention of specific sensors being needed to detect this ship if it moves faster than normal; just that the stealth effect is nullified.

Similarly, if you'll remove the "isn't quite as effective as targeting the vessel by normal means". There is no one singularly defined method that ships are detected by. Most canon combat ships have a composite sensor suite of at least a DER, FST, and EPR. It's not entirely clear which one of those is most important in detecting and identifying ships.

Furthermore, advanced active sensors might be able to discern its location,

If you'll remove "advanced" from this sentence please. Using "advanced sensors" suggests that the opposing writer needs particularly advanced sensors listed in their subs to detect stealth craft. This sort of sensor technology (such as Crystal grav traps) is just as restricted as cloaking device and high-grade stealth. This maintains an even technological playing field between stealth & anti-stealth technology.

Limited stealth (and corresponding anti-stealth technology) is best thought of as an enabler for certain behavior and tactics, meaning that its effectiveness is largely dependent on the skill of the pilot and writer using the ship. It's not something that can be used as a static, enduring effect without any thought behind it.

 

[AMCO]

This needs to be downgraded somewhat to pass at "Limited". The "is all but invisible" needs to go, otherwise it looks like it's equivalent to a cloaking device, which would clearly place this at the semi-unique status. Chaos subs typically interpret Reflec in a couple of different ways to make use of it on larger production ships. One is that it simply only provides some visual stealth (but nothing against things like DERs or EPR sensors). People sometimes will describe it as bending light so that it appears like a dark mass (which is still visible at close distances or against certain backdrops) or that it can change color to better match the background (like real life camouflage). The general effect of these options is that it makes it more difficult to spot at range (but not close up). Another option is to have the Reflec give it a lower sensor profile (but still observable with typical sensors, even if they don't immediately realize what it is). In many ways, this is broadly equivalent to modern day stealth aircraft showing up on radar as objects that look like birds. Similarly, the "nigh-impossible to get a targeting lock" will need to be downgraded to something like "difficult to get a targeting lock at long ranges".

There we go. I added some super vague electronic countermeasures and brought down the efficiency altogether, especially at short range. Made a reference to this in "Imperfect Stealth". ECMs are solely intended to keep it at a level of vagueness I'm comfortable with, as I haven't the foggiest how to properly describe anything even remotely resembling modern science. (I did note that its manoeuvrability makes it hard to get a lock in short ranges though, even if that could probably just as well be implicit, considering how SW targeting has been shown to rely on a lot of line-of-sight.)

If you'll change "virtually any other" to "many" or "most". There are other starfighters out there with "Extreme" listed as the speed, which means that they'll at least be keeping pace with this ship.

Done. It was meant to reference the fact that "Extreme" ratings are supposed to be pretty damn rare.

If you'll removed "advanced" from this sentence. The Whisperthrust entry in Pirates and Privateers makes no mention of specific sensors being needed to detect this ship if it moves faster than normal; just that the stealth effect is nullified. Similarly, if you'll remove the "isn't quite as effective as targeting the vessel by normal means". There is no one singularly defined method that ships are detected by. Most canon combat ships have a composite sensor suite of at least a DER, FST, and EPR. It's not entirely clear which one of those is most important in detecting and identifying ships.

Done. Was meant to reflect a target lock specifically, though that might not have been obvious. I'll just leave it out and let it be one of those things people can think about if they're creative enough.

If you'll remove "advanced" from this sentence please. Using "advanced sensors" suggests that the opposing writer needs particularly advanced sensors listed in their subs to detect stealth craft. This sort of sensor technology (such as Crystal grav traps) is just as restricted as cloaking device and high-grade stealth. This maintains an even technological playing field between stealth & anti-stealth technology. Limited stealth (and corresponding anti-stealth technology) is best thought of as an enabler for certain behavior and tactics, meaning that its effectiveness is largely dependent on the skill of the pilot and writer using the ship. It's not something that can be used as a static, enduring effect without any thought behind it.

Done. I mentioned gravitic sensors specifically to differentiate it from "normal" advanced sensors, but I can see how that could be misunderstood.

 

[Gir Quee]

Awesome. Pending Secondary Approval. Thanks! [member="Jamie Pyne"]

 

[Zef Halo]

Approved.