Discussion Are the Jedi Really the Good Guys?

[Phyress Vaelor]

That goes against both canon and legends, but okay.

Goes against the truth of the Force or the view of the Jedi? It is an opinion, so not meant as if I speak the absolute truth. But I support my opinion:

"It is only here that I can control them. A family in balance. The light and the dark. Day with night. Destruction, replaced by creation."

"There are some who would like to exploit our power. The Sith are but one. Too much light or dark would be the undoing of life as you understand it. When news reached me that the Chosen One had been found, I needed to see for myself."
-The Father


Anakin was only a Jedi because Qui Gon and Obi Wan defied the Council and instilled him there. The Chosen One. Bringer of Balance. Was he really supposed to be a Jedi?

If the Council stood by their guns and expelled Qui Gon and Obi Wan could they not have become a new order? One that actually brought balance to the Force? Supplanting or keeping in check the Sith AND the Jedi?

The drive for “balance” is a foundation of the Jedi Order that is merely propaganda and causes a lot of the “mistakes” that they make. It is ok for i”the Jedi to believe they need to “win” the battle vs the Darkside. They are the Light. But to say that will bring balance is just illogical. Peace, sure. Tranquility, ok. Balance by definition cannot be dominated by one side or the other.

The will of the Force is never known. The nature of the Force in Canon and Legends support that in order tfor balance there needs to be both Light and Dark. Thus the Sith nor the Jedi never truly die no matter how close they come to it.

 

[Darth Carnifex]

You wouldn't call equal amounts fruit and heroin a balanced diet.

 

[Phyress Vaelor]

You wouldn't call equal amounts fruit and heroin a balanced diet.

Not sure I said equal amounts of light and dark made balanced Force either.

Not sure heroin counts as part of a diet.

100% fruit is certainly not a balanced diet.

 

[Darth Carnifex]

No, but balance in the Force as Lucas himself described is the Light keeping the Dark in total check, to prevent people from falling to the Dark Side and taking the Force out of balance. The Light Side of the Force is the natural default state of life in the galaxy, and while the Dark Side is also natural, it is also corrosive to the mind, body, and spirit, and had to be overcome by living beings in order to not fall into imbalance. The Sith specifically are a cause of imbalance in the Force, with the prophecy of the chosen one even stating that to restore balance in the Force the Sith had to be destroyed.

 

[Makko Vyres]

No, but balance in the Force as Lucas himself described is the Light keeping the Dark in total check, to prevent people from falling to the Dark Side and taking the Force out of balance. The Light Side of the Force is the natural default state of life in the galaxy, and while the Dark Side is also natural, it is also corrosive to the mind, body, and spirit, and had to be overcome by living beings in order to not fall into imbalance. The Sith specifically are a cause of imbalance in the Force, with the prophecy of the chosen one even stating that to restore balance in the Force the Sith had to be destroyed.

Love this take.

All power to those who want to do "Good hearted darksider" but I just prefer sticking with:

"The Dark Side inetivably corrupts."

 

[Darth Carnifex]

And also don't forget that just because something is natural or naturally occurring, does not mean it is safe or healthy. You wouldn't ingest a poisonous plant just because its natural.

 

[Tamsin Starfall]

Love this take.

All power to those who want to do "Good hearted darksider" but I just prefer sticking with:

"The Dark Side inetivably corrupts."

I mean allot of darksiders from Vader to many Legends darksiders start with with well intentions. They want to help, save people, or fix the the problems they see in the Galaxy. But they follow the age old trope of " The Road to hell is paved in good intentions" and "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." .

Its the story of most of real life and fiction the villian thinks what they are doing is good or for a greater power. It may even start off as something good but it gets corrupted as power is gained. When there is no system (IE like the Jedi Code) in place to keep it in check those good intentions slowly turn bad. That once good sith doesn't even realize they are now the very monster they intended to stop in the first place. They still think they are good but everyone else see what they have become. Sometimes even then no one realize the evil they truly did until they are long gone after having time to reflect on it. Some of the best villains in fiction think they are the good guys.

 

[Braze]

Not sure I said equal amounts of light and dark made balanced Force either.

Not sure heroin counts as part of a diet.

100% fruit is certainly not a balanced diet.

The dark side twists people. It works a lot like addiction, only worse: its power is seductive, corrosive, and incredibly hard to walk away from once someone starts relying on it. Comparing it to drugs is a strong analogy for people who want to break free, yet keep getting pulled back into the same hunger that is ruining them. That is what makes it such a vicious cycle. Hate works much the same way. I can see strong symbolic parallels there with stories like Jekyll and Hyde.

That is part of why Braze views darksiders the way he does. He sees them almost like addicts—people caught in something poisonous, people who often cannot stop feeding the very thing destroying them. He pities them. To him, they are sick in the mind, trapped by their own ambition, fear, anger, or craving for control. He also sees the dark side as an easy way out: a shortcut, a more indulgent and less disciplined path toward power or desire. It is an easy trap to fall into, and far harder to climb back out once they have started digging.

Compassion and love can only reach so far and idea that you can lead a horse to water , but you can't make them drink. People do not run out of love… they run out of patience. And hate is not the opposite of love but rather views it as the other side of the same coin.

My character holds the opinion and view that apathy is the real opposite of love. Because to hate something you still need to care about it.

 

[Gren Blidh]

Predictably this topic has devolved into debating what "bringing balance to the Force" means.

If I could remove anything from the prequel trilogy, it would be any mention of the concept of "Balance". God, what a stupid idea. Nothing has produced more misunderstanding, and in turn more stupid ideas, than the whole Balance nonsense. I hate it. I miss when the Jedi and Sith were just generic good and bad guys before the introduction of all this pseudo-Buddhist crap. It was always something that felt slapped on and it never really fit the feel of what Star Wars originally was. It's ruined everything.

The day George's wife brought him along to her yoga studio somewhere in SoCal because she's always saying they never spend enough time together and because their therapist said it would be good for their relationship, and his yoga instructor sagely whispered the word "Balance" into his ear during a downward dog pose, and suddenly George's eyes popped open and little light bulbs started going off in his brain, was the day Star Wars died.

 

[Salamander]

The day George's wife brought him along to her yoga studio somewhere in SoCal because she's always saying they never spend enough time together and because their therapist said it would be good for their relationship, and his yoga instructor sagely whispered the word "Balance" into his ear during a downward dog pose, and suddenly George's eyes popped open and little light bulbs started going off in his brain, was the day Star Wars died.

what

 

[Darth Carnifex]

Predictably this topic has devolved into debating what "bringing balance to the Force" means.

If I could remove anything from the prequel trilogy, it would be any mention of the concept of "Balance". God, what a stupid idea. Nothing has produced more misunderstanding, and in turn more stupid ideas, than the whole Balance nonsense. I hate it. I miss when the Jedi and Sith were just generic good and bad guys before the introduction of all this pseudo-Buddhist crap. It was always something that felt slapped on and it never really fit the feel of what Star Wars originally was. It's ruined everything.

The day George's wife brought him along to her yoga studio somewhere in SoCal because she's always saying they never spend enough time together and because their therapist said it would be good for their relationship, and his yoga instructor sagely whispered the word "Balance" into his ear during a downward dog pose, and suddenly George's eyes popped open and little light bulbs started going off in his brain, was the day Star Wars died.

 

[Catarina Talen]

Predictably this topic has devolved into debating what "bringing balance to the Force" means.

If I could remove anything from the prequel trilogy, it would be any mention of the concept of "Balance". God, what a stupid idea. Nothing has produced more misunderstanding, and in turn more stupid ideas, than the whole Balance nonsense. I hate it. I miss when the Jedi and Sith were just generic good and bad guys before the introduction of all this pseudo-Buddhist crap. It was always something that felt slapped on and it never really fit the feel of what Star Wars originally was. It's ruined everything.

The day George's wife brought him along to her yoga studio somewhere in SoCal because she's always saying they never spend enough time together and because their therapist said it would be good for their relationship, and his yoga instructor sagely whispered the word "Balance" into his ear during a downward dog pose, and suddenly George's eyes popped open and little light bulbs started going off in his brain, was the day Star Wars died.

Hey, man, like, what?

 

[Catarina Talen]

Anyway, my two cents:

Jedi, individually, are often very good people - or at least people trying to be very good people, which is sometimes the best we can ask for. They are, like, provably correct about the nature of the Dark Side (its corrupting influence, the fact that it inevitably hurts those who draw from it, etc), and even a perpetual padawan in the Exploration or Agriculture Corps will improve countless lives through their labor. Quibbles about their philosophy aside (which would be pointless, because it's a philosophy for Force Users, a category of people who as far as I know don't exist in the real world), Jedi as individuals are often good people.

The Jedi Order, by the time of the prequels, at least, is heinously corrupt, hidebound, and has lost much of the empathy and understanding that makes the Order theoretically effective as an organization.

The Order failed Anakin because it could not understand the depth of his loss and grief, and therefore could not help him overcome them. It failed the slaves of Tatooine because it could not bring itself to act, even peacefully, to disrupt the slave trade outside of the Republic's reach. It failed the Republic by being so beholden and loyal to it, and refusing to call out its failings, and it failed the planets of the Confederacy of Independent Systems because if the Jedi Order was not so blindly faithful to the Republic they could have operated as something other than the dogs of the republic military. It failed the sand people of Tatooine, too, and padme, because if Anakin had gotten the help and training he deserved - instead of being blindly pushed forward by the Council's faith in prophecy - he might not have gone on a genocidal killing spree, or killed the woman he loved the most in the world in a fit of blind, raging paranoia.

The Acolyte, as messy as it can sometimes be, is letting us see what laid the groundwork for that eventual corruption: the cover ups at the end, Sol's suspicion of any Force religion that isn't his own, all of it snowballs pretty neatly into the tragedy that befalls the Jedi Order by the time of the prequels.

 

[Braze]

Yikes

 

[Matsu Ike]

well that was certainly something