Another tag suggestion (yep)

[Boethiah]

I know I've already made another tag suggestion on one of my alts but I had a bit of a discussion on Skype and came up with a thought.

So seeing now that having a force-user tag, if you are one, is mandatory some people feel a bit unhappy that they have to have one. Not all because it replaced their favourite tags or whatever, but some simply because they don't fit into that scheme: Like Jedi, Sith, Witch, Apprentice etc.

Would it be possible to have say a "Force-user" or "Force-sensitive" rank to signify someone who doesn't train in the traditional sense of the force but uses some of its powers? I know there are plenty 'force-users' who prefer to use guns or general combat and only use the supernatural powers to increase their natural ability. Especially since its now mandatory, I know some people had to settle for apprentice because it's the closest thing to just that.

Edit: I was just thinking a single tag. No rank path to mastery or whatever; because it wouldn't make much sense to give someone the ability to train others if they ignore the principles of the force at their deeper levels.

 

[Hailyn]

I know I've already made another tag suggestion on one of my alts but I had a bit of a discussion on Skype and came up with a thought.

So seeing now that having a force-user tag, if you are one, is mandatory some people feel a bit unhappy that they have to have one. Not all because it replaced their favourite tags or whatever, but some simply because they don't fit into that scheme: Like Jedi, Sith, Witch, Apprentice etc.

Would it be possible to have say a "Force-user" or "Force-sensitive" rank to signify someone who doesn't train in the traditional sense of the force but uses some of its powers? I know there are plenty 'force-users' who prefer to use guns or general combat and only use the supernatural powers to increase their natural ability. Especially since its now mandatory, I know some people had to settle for apprentice because it's the closest thing to just that.

Sith = Sith, Dark Jedi = Dark Siders whom are not Sith or Dathomirin Witches, Apprentice/Knight/Master = Entirely Force-Neutral (This would be where neutral force users go), Rogue Apprentice/Knight/Master = Light Siders whom are not Jedi, Jedi = Jedi.

We've had this discussion several times, and every time the result is the same (see above as what is relayed back). If all they do is use it in a neutral fashion and are not Jedi, Sith, Dark Jedi, etc, then they would use the neutral force user rank titles. Otherwise they follow the set scheme.

 

[Boethiah]

[member="Lisette Vantai"]

I understand apprentice/knight/master is 'force-neutral' but it's still mastery of the force. I was just suggesting a -single- tag that shows that your character is a force-user but does not pertain to mastery, which those paths each suggest. Knights can promote Padawans, and Masters can promote Knights etc.

But there are many characters who use the force but are incapable of training others to use it. Think of it like someone who is just naturally good at something but because they never formally trained in they would have no idea how to get others to do so; like a talent. The force isn't necessarily spontaneous but some parts of it come naturally to force-users who don't dedicate themselves to learning the force at all but now have to -- by new rules -- use a force-user tag if they are to use the force on their character.

 

[Hailyn]

[member="Lisette Vantai"]

I understand apprentice/knight/master is 'force-neutral' but it's still mastery of the force. I was just suggesting a -single- tag that shows that your character is a force-user but does not pertain to mastery, which those paths each suggest. Knights can promote Padawans, and Masters can promote Knights etc.
But there are many characters who use the force but are incapable of training others to use it. Think of it like someone who is just naturally good at something but because they never formally trained in they would have no idea how to get others to do so; like a talent. The force isn't necessarily spontaneous but some parts of it come naturally to force-users who don't dedicate themselves to learning the force at all but now have to -- by new rules -- use a force-user tag if they are to use the force on their character.

The rank titles given to force users are not the same as they are in canon. A character with the Jedi master rank title may still go around being only capable of using basic telekinesis, although extremely well at that, and never having taught a single person in their career, or be capable of doing so. A "Master" may be only capable of using force sense and telepathy, for example, but be so great at lightsaber combat or as a battleweapons master, that they earned the title of Master for that precedence. One also needn't be completely inept at the force as an apprentice, as well.

 

[Hailyn]

[member="Anja Aj'Rou"]
The reason for the 3 tier system is that there are far too many people who would blur the lines of their abilities and (although some still do) would play up their abilities to that of a Master as a new character. It's too open for abuse if the rank titles are taken away, and it is the only thing keeping Force Users in check in comparison to non-force users. If you want to rely only on one skill and never progress your abilities further, simply remain an apprentice or something of the sort. Nobody can read your rank title in a thread and metagame/godmod being aware of your level of mastery.

 

[Boethiah]

[member="Lisette Vantai"]

Fair enough but it was my assumption -- one I still hold to -- that the force-user rank was more for OOC reasons than IC, I mean sure, it does help and make things nifty but it's also to prevent people from going around and turning everyone into a Sith Lord, no?

Or at least I wouldn't see why it'd be mandatory if not. I'm not too concerned with the IC precedence other than it might give people the wrong idea about their character. I mean, no one would pick Sith or Jedi despite not being a Jedi, well they might, but people would make assumptions about the character that way just as if someone had the title apprentice they'd assume they're an apprentice in some ways, even when they're not.

 

[Hailyn]

[member="Lisette Vantai"]

Fair enough but it was my assumption -- one I still hold to -- that the force-user rank was more for OOC reasons than IC, I mean sure, it does help and make things nifty but it's also to prevent people from going around and turning everyone into a Sith Lord, no?

Or at least I wouldn't see why it'd be mandatory if not. I'm not too concerned with the IC precedence other than it might give people the wrong idea about their character. I mean, no one would pick Sith or Jedi despite not being a Jedi, well they might, but people would make assumptions about the character that way just as if someone had the title apprentice they'd assume they're an apprentice in some ways, even when they're not.

The reason for it being mandatory is because there are people who like to pretend they're a master of telekinesis as an apprentice/padawan and abuse the full extent of their abilities to the point of being capable of effortlessly flying around like some sort of force god. It was previously more of an assumed rule, a status quo, that all force users must have a tag to denote their ability to use the force, but it got out of hand when several people abused the fact that it was not in writing.

 

[Fatty]

I like the idea of a simply "sensitive". Especially for people who are untrained in any particular discipline. Though if you have them force sensitive as merely a fluff aspect of your character and not something that will actually affect roleplay, I don't see the point in actually having it.

 

[Boethiah]

It was previously more of an assumed rule, a status quo, that all force users must have a tag to denote their ability to use the force, but it got out of hand when several people abused the fact that it was not in writing.

I feel like that would make my suggestion a bit more fruitful towards that side then and not just to make some people happy. I mean if you want to talk about people's abilities, there are characters out there at the lowest force-rank who are still capable of easily outdueling a master depending on what they train in, which I think is something you may have made mention, but obviously they haven't pertained to mastery. Which again what I'm saying is there are force-users who don't pertain to the path of 'developing' their force powers but do use the force regularly in their writing, like through visions and its abilities in the more instinctive and infantile state.

 

[Hailyn]

Fair enough but it was my assumption -- one I still hold to -- that the force-user rank was more for OOC reasons than IC, I mean sure, it does help and make things nifty but it's also to prevent people from going around and turning everyone into a Sith Lord, no?

That is the purpose of this three-tier system, yes. By reducing it to a single tag, anyone could waltz around with super-master telekinesis because they only use that one ability and thus deem the rank titles for force users to be unnecessary or that they fall outside of its jurisdiction. There's a reason why the masters of your faction must place a vote for a character's promotion to master, and then a secondary vote through Role-play judges.

 

[Hailyn]

I feel like that would make my suggestion a bit more fruitful towards that side then and not just to make some people happy. I mean if you want to talk about people's abilities, there are characters out there at the lowest force-rank who are still capable of easily outdueling a master depending on what they train in, which I think is something you may have made mention, but obviously they haven't pertained to mastery. Which again what I'm saying is there are force-users who don't pertain to the path of 'developing' their force powers but do use the force regularly in their writing, like through visions and its abilities in the more instinctive and infantile state.

Then I suggest simply retaining a padawan/apprentice/spellweaver title. You needn't restrict yourself to being completely inept in combat, only in the use of the force.

 

[Boethiah]

[member="Fatty"]
That's an excellent point and partially why the discussion came up.

Unless I'm absolutely wrong: Anyone who uses the force in their writing must have an FU tag per the new rules, and for some people that may be more 'fluff' but for others they actively use the force to pursue stories and developments like having 'force visions' but not necessarily using telekinesis or other powers and others use more infantile abilities that come instinctively in force-users such as being able to manipulate others or cause harm when emotionally driven or improve reflexes or sense motives.

 

[Tefka]

If I make a "sensitive" rank title, it will be a prestigious rank title handed out only to those who deserve it, and will have nothing to do with a character's Force Sensitivity.

 

[Boethiah]

[member="Tefka"]

Sensitive as your feelings for them are confidential?

 

[Zaahir Asad]

[member="Tefka"]

Pardon me as I shed one manly tear...

 

[Fatty]

[member="Anja Aj'Rou"] That would be a correct assumption. But whenever we consider adding something, we must consider two things: how much work for staff does this cause on top of other things that the populace demands, and is this actually necissary for you as a roleplay to have?

I don't know how much work this would actually cause for staff, but I'm almost certain there would be complaints about it.

As for the necissity... I don't see why you can't simply justify having force visions for no particular reason (or the very specifc reason that they are simply sensitive and didn't know it), without the tag. Because honestly, tags are there to denote identity and how important that particular aspect is to your character. If you put up a 'force sensitive' tag up, then it has the connotation that this part of them crops up rather often. That would most likely be a viable loop hole people could use to abuse the system, and is as such a huge no-no in the eyes of staff.

 

[Varan Zarvenis]

A seven hundred year old apprentice... do I think it fits? No. But technically, I do have to accept that its my skill level with the force.

I think that such a tag would be nice, but I also believe that its something fairly unnecessary, no matter your reasons, your skill level is still your skill level.

 

[Hailyn]

[member="Anja Aj'Rou"]
Again, I suggest retaining the base force rank title if that is the case. You may still progress those abilities without active training in the force by simply using them, making them more common and being more capable of calling on them. [member="Darth Vitium"] is one such character that witnesses visions through the force both as general force visions and through farseeing, and while as an apprentice they happened on occasion they gradually increased in quantity and clarity until she became used to seeing them on a day-to-day basis.

And as [member="Fatty"] mentioned above, it indeed opens up that loophole that can be exploited in the same way I mentioned prior - people who want to be "Seers" that only perform visions through the force and/or telepathy on a level seen almost exclusively among masters because they do not see themselves as the same as other force users, because they do not actively try to progress in the force and feel the titles to be unnecessary. It also puts a strain on the staff with what would likely become a task of policing people to ensure their "force sensitive" characters without a rank title are only performing the most basic, instinctual, mundane, and non-gifted of tasks when they do use the force.

 

[Tefka]

If you're a 700 year apprentice, you really screwed the pooch on your first 7 centuries.

 

[Boethiah]

[member="Varan Zarvenis"] [member="Fatty"]

The idea is that if someone wanted to develop their force powers beyond that, they'd have to pick up on a path in some form or another either at the 1st tier or 2nd, because that makes sense, not every force-sensitive trains in the force but that doesn't mean they don't use it. Some don't, but others still do in some form or another.

So that might make the suggestion be a bit more redundant if it's just a placeholder until someone decides they want to become a Jedi, Sith, Witch, Apprentice/Knight, etc. but if the idea is for it to denote -- and make it fit -- then I think people would be pretty happy with the idea. Not that I don't see where the problems come in but frankly they're going to happen anyway and having that tag wouldn't make it any harder to deal with.