Suggestion A step in between minor and major?

[Ronhar Tane]

What's to say the minor factions have little hexs then the majors just go after them. Or even the surrounding minors decides to constantly attack each other and take over/all their small hexs. Then that minor will constantly have to remake and re-establish their hexs/rp story. To me that sounds more exhausting on the writers OOC and can lead to writer burn out for just taking a constant beating. Which may in turn lead to OOC salt being formed. Why add that extra stress?

Certainly a good point! Here's how I see it though:

That's certainly very true what you said, but I'd argue so is the opposite. If the Mandos or Sith or High Republic came to my little corner of Imperial space and decided to conquer every planet around me, there's not a thing I could do about it, Sure, I could maybe offer some opposition in RP if they allowed it, but again there's no way I could prevent them from taking over, unless I'm misunderstanding how dominions or populates work. At least this way, people would have an option to properly defend their territory, even if they'd probably end of losing.

But that's just my two cents on the matter, and like I said, I'm myself working on going major. I've got 16 players in my faction atm, and I'm still having activity trouble. At least, in regards for major levels of activity I suppose. But I'll get there!

 

[River23]

That's certainly very true what you said, but I'd argue so is the opposite. If the Mandos or Sith or High Republic came to my little corner of Imperial space and decided to conquer every planet around me, there's not a thing I could do about it, Sure, I could maybe offer some opposition in RP if they allowed it, but again there's no way I could prevent them from taking over, unless I'm misunderstanding how dominions or populates work. At least this way, people would have an option to properly defend their territory, even if they'd probably end of losing.

But that's just my two cents on the matter, and like I said, I'm myself working on going major. I've got 16 players in my faction atm, and I'm still having activity trouble. At least, in regards for major levels of activity I suppose. But I'll get there

From my understanding, even if a major faction does take over the planet you can still write on that planet. But don't be surprised if the major faction joins in because it is in their territory or they can choose to ignore what's going on that planet if things are being handled poorly. Such as failure to communicate or being negative/toxic.

I'm sure everyone on the site knows this, but it's always a good reminder: Chaos is all about collaboration, cooperation, and story telling.

If it were me, and there were these set planets that I would want when going major, then I'd reach out to the other major faction and be like "hey, we're interested in going major and would like these planets. Is it possible we can work something out?" and that in itself can be a fun political or build up of a battle story to lean into. Mind you, there's other ways too: such as how the GE decided to pop up in the middle of the GA space cause they wanted those specific hexes. (There is a mandate for that, "The Rebellion" ) So there are options if you are dead set on those hexs.

I believe you pointed out what needs to be worked on your end for going major, and its like you said, the next step is figuring out how to solve it. Keep in mind, sometimes quantity doesn't = quality. From my memory, I do believe one of the big things for submitting threads to be judged, be it in major factions or apply is: "Is there a completed story?" and does the number of those who checked in are participating. Life happens and so you're not going to have consistently 16 active writers, hence the 5 active writers for major applications.

My anecdotal considerations that might help you are:

• Can you and your four friends make 60 - 80 posts in a month?
• Can you do it without being propped up by another community?
• Can you do it without one person spamming alts to make a thread look more active than it is?

Aether put it in the best simplest terms.

I suggest reaching out to your writers and see what stories they'd like to explore and would be more active to write in. To me, story plays a huge part of the community as a whole. Be it a singular character's story or the direction of the major faction story. With that in mind, I do believe you're headed in the right direction. Keep your head up and there's no rush. Remember its a marathon, not a race!

~additionally~
Also on the minor hex's, that's just a lot more maintenance work for staff and that minor faction. Because what if those writers took an loa or just stopped writing. There would have to be constant activity checks to make sure they just aren't cluttering the map game. And the constant checking/regulating to see the writers just don't make a bunch of IC characters and put into minor factions for hexes. That's too many added rules tbh

 

[A Phoenix]

~additionally~
Also on the minor hex's, that's just a lot more maintenance work for staff and that minor faction. Because what if those writers took an loa or just stopped writing. There would have to be constant activity checks to make sure they just aren't cluttering the map game. And the constant checking/regulating to see the writers just don't make a bunch of IC characters and put into minor factions for hexes. That's too many added rules tbh

At this point, even those of us who support some form of a mid-major on the map have conceded that it is not something that staff can, nor should they be expected to keep up with. This conversation has done a very good job of civilly pointing this out and those of us who would like to see a bit more variety to the map game understand that it really isn't feasible without making extremely unfair demands on site staff. Logistics has become the death knell of this idea, and we all realize it.

All of the advice and talk of what it takes to make a major is also very much appreciated.

 

[Alan]

At this point, even those of us who support some form of a mid-major on the map have conceded that it is not something that staff can, nor should they be expected to keep up with. This conversation has done a very good job of civilly pointing this out and those of us who would like to see a bit more variety to the map game understand that it really isn't feasible without making extremely unfair demands on site staff. Logistics has become the death knell of this idea, and we all realize it.

All of the advice and talk of what it takes to make a major is also very much appreciated.

I don't think the logistics are very complicated. I'd even say that a "In-between" or "Medium sized" faction or "Grande" faction would not have access to certain things until they went major, or if they ever did. Many stories have died on the vine because people are sort of shoehorned into Major faction roleplay to get to where people are writing at. I think this would be a good go-between towards people who don't necessarily want to be involved in invasions/dominions/etc but have an overarching story and a tangible place in the galaxy.

 

[Kurayami Bloodborn]

I don't think the logistics are very complicated. I'd even say that a "In-between" or "Medium sized" faction or "Grande" faction would not have access to certain things until they went major, or if they ever did. Many stories have died on the vine because people are sort of shoehorned into Major faction roleplay to get to where people are writing at. I think this would be a good go-between towards people who don't necessarily want to be involved in invasions/dominions/etc but have an overarching story and a tangible place in the galaxy.

You are right. The logistics are incredibly simplistic and in fact, we need no changes to the current systems, or your so called 'Grande' factions.

The solution is this: If you want people to remember the overarching story of your minor faction, continue to tell the story. Talk to the major who owns the planet if you want them to respect the story your minor is telling, because again, this site is about, what was the word? Ah yes, collaboration. I know an anathema to some. Still the foundation and that won't be changing.

Take the above suggestion to heart and you'll notice that there is no need to involve the volunteers who make up Site staff.

 

[Alan]

You are right. The logistics are incredibly simplistic and in fact, we need no changes to the current systems, or your so called 'Grande' factions.

I never said that lol. There are obviously going to be changes.

Ah yes, collaboration. I know an anathema to some. Still the foundation and that won't be changing.

who are you talking about? like who specifically doesn't understand on Chaos that collaboration on forum roleplaying is a foundation? I don't think there's a writer here who doesn't understand that. I think that's an over-sweeping generalization and not helpful and categorically untrue

Take the above suggestion to heart and you'll notice that there is no need to involve the volunteers who make up Site staff.

This is a suggestion thread not a "I demand Volunteers to do something" thread. They are perfectly capable of saying no but we're also free to express our desire for something new in the faction system. The faction system at it's foundation hasn't really changed in a decade plus, I think it's perfectly reasonable that people may want to venture beyond the idea of a major/minor only duality and have something beyond what they've been doing since 2013 or whenever Chaos first started.

 

[River23]

Okay, let us say we do, do that. We have a Mid-Faction tier. If people already think having Minor and Majors are already a problem because "many stories die" be it they die in the minor faction itself due to lack of activity/interest/whatever reason or in the Major faction where maybe the faction as a whole isn't the ideal place for their type of story. Having a mid-faction tier is going to segregate things even more, including the writer base.

If you're story does not align with the major faction you are in, that is OKAY. There may be some liked minded people who are in tune with YOUR story and with those like-minded people, that can branch off from that major faction and create a minor and build off to become a major. Perfect example would be the GA and the THR (royal naboo at the time). Or even the TSO and TSC.

No one is stopping anybody from becoming a major, except poor attitude and lack of involvement/activity.

You don't have to apply to be a minor faction. You can be a completely brand new writer and make a minor faction. You can still write, rp on planets, have stories, include major factions in your story. Heck, you can even go to a major faction and be like "I would love for my minor faction to collab and be apart of your major faction, if it aligns with what you guys are doing" or "I would like to keep my minor faction a thing, but somehow work to intertwine our stories together." To help support each other for activity and get more of your story out there and garner more support. Building up positive relationships with other writers/characters around. See what comes out of it.

If this is all about "my story dies", I know it's a hard to swallow pill: But your story dies, when you want it to or let it die.

This is a hobby at the end of the day and if you're not having fun writing your own story... then I suggest taking a break or re-evaluate the situation and try something new with the story/group/attitude/whatever you want to call it. It is called a "plot-twist", "pivoting", "filler episodes" for a reason. A simple question: "how can I make the story that I am writing now, more appealing while keeping the same tone, bring more people in?"

If it's a personal thing, such as poor attitude/difficult to work with and not being open-minded... once again: Chaos is all about collaboration, cooperation, and story-telling. Don't get me wrong, you can have poor attitude and still write your own stories, people may be still be interested in those stories and want to be included, but do not be surprise if collaboration or cooperation from other minors or major factions don't come hand in hand.

And if people already think going from minor to major is still a struggle, adding a mid-tier is going to make it even harder and worse. Even more stories will be "lost".

 

[WelshPsych]

Let's do some questioning here.

• What changes would be implemented to make this "medium" faction?

• Would staff have to approve the factions? If the staff does, then why would any choose to be a "medium" faction when they can apply to be a major faction?

• What restrictions will there be that a "medium" faction needs to achieve to apply for that status? I mean, as many point out in this thread, the bar for application to be a Major Faction is not a high threshold.

• Would activity checks be required from "medium" factions like they are for Major Factions? How active would a "medium" faction need to be?

I truly believe this is an unnecessary thing and something that really hasn't been thought out well enough. Hexes are something that should only be reserved to Major Factions, the people that run those factions put a lot of their own personal time and effort into creating stories, building objectives and creating the art that people use for their bio divs, posting divs, the objective markers. Site staff shouldn't be made to give more work unnecessarily but I also think it would be a terrible disservice to not appreciate the hard work that Major Faction staff and members do to help keep people writing. Saying that your stories matter more than theirs or that they kill your stories, that is incredibly insulting and a failure on your part not theirs.

Major Factions have worked very hard to include smaller groups of writers' stories and even allowed them to continue either ruling planets or building codex submissions and lore on planets within their own hexes. To say that you cannot maintain a story within that group, that isn't on them, I have never had an issue building stories within a Major Faction personally and I do not know anyone who has. So, I really do think that this "medium" faction thing is just not unnecessary because it burdens site staff, but nothing it offers would be more appealing than being a Major Faction and all it would do is bloat the map and likely cause far more salt and drama than it would solve.

 

[Briana Sal-Soren]

So, gonna be that person that just jumps in here to divert the conversation for this moment, because I keep seeing this brought up in the thread, but, majors don't own planets, and majors can't tell you or give you permission where you can or can't write. Every major faction owner former, or otherwise, knows this, and has been told this by admin. It's been said by admin on the site, several times. It's why we've had multiple Queen's of Naboo at one time, and why we have multiple iterations of the same planets in the codex.

It's great when people can collaborate together, but you don't need permission to tell a story that you're interested in telling, which I think someone else already pointed out here, earlier. But, just like you don't have to acknowledge them, they also have the right to not acknowledge you.

Anyway, that's it for me.

 

[WelshPsych]

So, gonna be that person that just jumps in here to divert the conversation for this moment, because I keep seeing this brought up in the thread, but, majors don't own planets, and majors can't tell you or give you permission where you can or can't write. Every major faction owner former, or otherwise, knows this, and has been told this by admin. It's been said by admin on the site, several times. It's why we've had multiple Queen's of Naboo at one time, and why we have multiple iterations of the same planets in the codex.

It's great when people can collaborate together, but you don't need permission to tell a story that you're interested in telling, which I think someone else already pointed out here, earlier. But, just like you don't have to acknowledge them, they also have the right to not acknowledge you.

Anyway, that's it for me.

My point was more on people's comments on saying Major Factions kill their stories, hinting that they are wanting to be acknowledged or feeling that they aren't. And to do that, you have to cooperate and it isn't a guarantee. Stories, however, do live and kill doesn't matter how important they were to you. Newer writers won't know of them, people move on and sometimes it is just a flash in the pan moment. You cannot force stories to last or matter.

If people are happy just writing their stories and not concerned about the wider impact, then minor faction status should be more than acceptable to do that. In fact, become the biggest, most popular minor faction. That would be awesome to see.

However, to have your story acknowledged or matter in a bigger way, you have to cooperate and you have to work with the Major Factions. Because while anyone can write any story they want, Major Factions have always held more lasting impact. I could create a new leader of Naboo, but people might not accept that as much in comparison to if I worked with THR and planned the character becoming the leader of Naboo with them.

 

[A Phoenix]

So, gonna be that person that just jumps in here to divert the conversation for this moment, because I keep seeing this brought up in the thread, but, majors don't own planets, and majors can't tell you or give you permission where you can or can't write. Every major faction owner former, or otherwise, knows this, and has been told this by admin. It's been said by admin on the site, several times. It's why we've had multiple Queen's of Naboo at one time, and why we have multiple iterations of the same planets in the codex.

This is true, but there is also a perception of ownership. If I had an idea that I wished to take place on Coruscant right now that was completely contradictory to what TSC had going on I would more than likely not move forward. They have spent time building up the current state of Coruscant I wouldn't want to create confusion by making an alternative. And I doubly would not set a faction on Coruscant that completely ignored TSC. At the same time, if I has an idea for a planet that was under a major's influence cloud, but there was nothing established beyond the perfunctory dominion/populate thread used to claim it, I would consider moving forward. I would still consult with the major before doing so.

It isn't a matter of ownership so much as a fact that the story of a planet by a major faction that holds an influence cloud over said planet is much more of a recognized fact than if a minor faction or unaffiliated group was to do so. As you say there is nothing to stop me from writing a Palpatine resurrection story on Frego, if I wanted to put the time into it. However, if I wanted it to be the basis for my faction it would get considerably less traction while Frego is under the influence of THR than if it were vacant.

You are not wrong in your statement, but the map has power in influencing Chaos stories. That power varies greatly depending on your own view of things. I'm sure there is someone who could care less about the map. I on the other hand like the structure it gives. Which is probably why I like the idea of more smaller map factions.

 

[Alan]

Having a mid-faction tier is going to segregate things even more, including the writer base.

How?

No one is stopping anybody from becoming a major, except poor attitude and lack of involvement/activity.

why, if major factions are doing their own thing, would a medium faction/federation “grande faction” affect them at all outside of generating roleplay or are you more concerned with roleplayers not wanting to be apart of Major Factions if other options exist?

Having a mid-faction tier is going to segregate things even more, including the writer base.

We’re already segregated for the most part. This suggestion and idea would appeal to a small minority of the playerbase while keeping the core of the map game alive.

 

[Briana Sal-Soren]

My point was more on people's comments on saying Major Factions kill their stories, hinting that they are wanting to be acknowledged or feeling that they aren't. And to do that, you have to cooperate and it isn't a guarantee. Stories, however, do live and kill doesn't matter how important they were to you. Newer writers won't know of them, people move on and sometimes it is just a flash in the pan moment. You cannot force stories to last or matter.

If people are happy just writing their stories and not concerned about the wider impact, then minor faction status should be more than acceptable to do that. In fact, become the biggest, most popular minor faction. That would be awesome to see.

However, to have your story acknowledged or matter in a bigger way, you have to cooperate and you have to work with the Major Factions. Because while anyone can write any story they want, Major Factions have always held more lasting impact. I could create a new leader of Naboo, but people might not accept that as much in comparison to if I worked with THR and planned the character becoming the leader of Naboo with them.

I understood where you were coming from, and I was mostly addressing a general trend I've seen in this thread, as I said. But also, I'd still argue that you don't have to work with a major faction, to have a story that makes a lasting impact, be acknowledged, even make a splash. People have written plenty of stories on this board as minor factions, that have had large impacts. Dark Wire, being one of them. There've also been individual stories I've seen people write, that have been phenomenal, that were not major faction based, and everyone treated it as board canon.

If you write a good story and something people resonate with, or enjoy, that's what's going to leave an impact and last in people's memories.

This is true, but there is also a perception of ownership. If I had an idea that I wished to take place on Coruscant right now that was completely contradictory to what TSC had going on I would more than likely not move forward. They have spent time building up the current state of Coruscant I wouldn't want to create confusion by making an alternative. And I doubly would not set a faction on Coruscant that completely ignored TSC. At the same time, if I has an idea for a planet that was under a major's influence cloud, but there was nothing established beyond the perfunctory dominion/populate thread used to claim it, I would consider moving forward. I would still consult with the major before doing so.

So why does their story matter more than yours? Or the one you want to write, in this example? Especially if you, and/or a group of people have been writing on a specific planet for a long time, why do your stories suddenly not matter and/or count? Or why is it an issue to create a faction there? Have you and/or others not done a lot of work as well? That's the reason why majors don't actually own planets. If you want to work with them and write together, and you can find a way forward, that's totally great. But if what they're doing doesn't jive with you, it shouldn't mean you have to abandon your ideas and/or stories that you were already working on. It might not be acknowledged by the major, but if you're enjoying the story and others are too, does that matter?

It isn't a matter of ownership so much as a fact that the story of a planet by a major faction that holds an influence cloud over said planet is much more of a recognized fact than if a minor faction or unaffiliated group was to do so. As you say there is nothing to stop me from writing a Palpatine resurrection story on Frego, if I wanted to put the time into it. However, if I wanted it to be the basis for my faction it would get considerably less traction while Frego is under the influence of THR than if it were vacant.

Kind of like to reiterate what I said to Welsh, the story that gets acknowledged is typically the story that people enjoy. When I was admin of THR, we had a lot of different people writing different stories on planets in our cloud, there was even someone trying to push a chiss revolution on one, and another who tried to release some crazy drug thing of the jungle worlds. They didn't talk to us about it, and we also didn't stop it, they just did their thing, and if I'd tried to step in and stop them, or join their thread to bully them out of making it - I would have been in the wrong, in that scenario.

You are not wrong in your statement, but the map has power in influencing Chaos stories. That power varies greatly depending on your own view of things. I'm sure there is someone who could care less about the map. I on the other hand like the structure it gives. Which is probably why I like the idea of more smaller map factions.

I get where you are coming from with this, I'm not fully sure where I land on making small factions a thing on the map. What might be a nice solution would maybe be another mandate that helps more niche factions get a leg up, or something like what Tefka did last year, that opened up a brief window to let pretty much anyone with a couple friends and a thread, join the map game.