Feedback 120 Posts With Marcus Dinn

[Marcus Dinn]

Because I haven't written this guy that much and want to keep a personal record of my struggles with developing him, I'm going to provide my own feedback/list of issues to address. Then y'all can add yours in the replies, if you want.

I Can’t Figure Out How to Write a Seer Without Metagaming

Marcus is a seer. Rather than being able to see the future, he’s supposed to know things he shouldn’t. However, I’ve been really struggling to find a way to make this work in RP. If he inexplicably knows something without being told directly, it feels cringe. Even when I try to attach limitations to his knowledge, or merely imply that he knows something, it just doesn’t jive. I haven’t had any OOC complaints yet (thankfully), but I don’t feel good about it.

I’ve begun seriously considering having him lose the seer ability, although I don’t particularly like the idea of cutting out such a core element of his character. I’ll have to come up with a way to remove it that isn’t bogus. Regardless of what I decide to do, I definitely should retcon the origin of his prophetic ability. Sure that’s how it happened in the actual thread, but it’s goofy as hell. I felt embarrassed when I had to write him describing how he ended up like this to another character lmao.

Legacy Character

I’ve done a decent job of exploring how his upbringing affected him so far. Granted there haven’t been many opportunities to show that off yet, just little hints here and there. Like when he compared Revna to his father, saying that she was better at being a Sith than him.

Writing My Own Damn Master

I made the decision early on to also write Marcus’ master, Silas Fogg, and I think it's turned out for the best. They have a tenuous bond forged from a choice Marcus made in the spur of the moment; he saved Silas’ life, but only because he wants the knowledge the Master Alchemist possesses. In another life, these two could’ve been good friends. They share interests and have the same weird sense of humor. But every moment of friendship or camaraderie they have together is fraught with underlying tension, as they both expect the other to betray them if push comes to shove.

Who Are You Calling Craven?

When creating Marcus’ bio, I took some traits directly from his father. Arcturus Dinn was a coward, which provided a great source of drama and tragedy (I LOVE tragedy) when we wrote together. However… My characterization of Marcus isn’t particularly craven. I might use cowardice as an excuse to exit a duel that’s lost its momentum, but even then he usually comes across as more bored than terrified. I may wind up making him more cowardly or getting rid of this trait.

 

[Mellifluous Magenta]

Who Are You Calling Craven?

When creating Marcus’ bio, I took some traits directly from his father. Arcturus Dinn was a coward, which provided a great source of drama and tragedy (I LOVE tragedy) when we wrote together. However… My characterization of Marcus isn’t particularly craven. I might use cowardice as an excuse to exit a duel that’s lost its momentum, but even then he usually comes across as more bored than terrified. I may wind up making him more cowardly or getting rid of this trait.

Even big, burly men can be cowards! Obviously General Grievious isn't a big, burly man but he has the same intimidation factor, while also being a legendary coward. I could see the coward angle working for Marcus as he's laughing or making fun of the opponent, trying to convince the opponent (and secretly himself) that's he won/winning the fight, while simultaneously making his way to an escape pod so he can appear in next Saturday's episode! That could be a fun angle to work with him!

 

[Mariah of House Marr]

I know I'm not someone who's written with Marcus...I think at all. But I do actually have a suggestion on one part:
"
I Can't Figure Out How to Write a Seer Without Metagaming

Marcus is a seer. Rather than being able to see the future, he's supposed to know things he shouldn't. However, I've been really struggling to find a way to make this work in RP. If he inexplicably knows something without being told directly, it feels cringe. Even when I try to attach limitations to his knowledge, or merely imply that he knows something, it just doesn't jive. I haven't had any OOC complaints yet (thankfully), but I don't feel good about it.

I've begun seriously considering having him lose the seer ability, although I don't particularly like the idea of cutting out such a core element of his character. I'll have to come up with a way to remove it that isn't bogus. Regardless of what I decide to do, I definitely should retcon the origin of his prophetic ability. Sure that's how it happened in the actual thread, but it's goofy as hell. I felt embarrassed when I had to write him describing how he ended up like this to another character lmao."

I absolutely jive with this having tried to do telepaths, and also specifically, a man who is guided by visions. Admittedly, I don't use him much. But that's mostly cause I made him a little too...perfect, outside of that visions thing. A little too strong in the force and unbendable to others whims to make him great for rp, with no sufficient self ambition to have inner turmoil.

That said, the way I got around fully meta-gaming him. Is I made sure the visions were never genuinely clear unless I had permission on something. Instead, he'd be guided somewhere by the force through vague directions or things. What you could do, is have him see things that he knows could guide him to something but not be certain that what he's seeing actually relates to what he will ultimately pursue.

So, he sees a vision of a great krayt dragon on tatooine, and going there, tries to find it, even hears stories about it, but instead of the dragon being important, he discovers a jedi in the cantina while he's asking around.

Or you could use given information like people they interacted with, rather than them directly. That said...this does sound like maybe it's not a direct translation of what you're doing, it's just a way to give 'force insight' without it being so specific that someone might feel like you meta-gamed? You can also ask, I often will ask for a lot of characters doing stuff but I get that it could be tiresome to go through that everytime you want them to have insight. I do feel like unless explicitly stated otherwise, sensory powers should have at least some usability without having to ask permission everytime.



The fear idea portion though, yeah. Totally love going in on fear. Mariah will be doing that, I did a sith lord that was literally built on fear being his drive for power and what made him most powerful was when he was genuinely afraid. Mariah will run or use proxies, but that character was supposed to use it like a 'fight or flight' instinct instead. Writing characters afraid can be loads of fun and doesn't necessarily mean they're weak. Heck even sidious got worried when he was stuck in the office with yoda.

 

[Iris Arani]

I Can’t Figure Out How to Write a Seer Without Metagaming

Marcus is a seer. Rather than being able to see the future, he’s supposed to know things he shouldn’t. However, I’ve been really struggling to find a way to make this work in RP. If he inexplicably knows something without being told directly, it feels cringe. Even when I try to attach limitations to his knowledge, or merely imply that he knows something, it just doesn’t jive. I haven’t had any OOC complaints yet (thankfully), but I don’t feel good about it.

I’ve begun seriously considering having him lose the seer ability, although I don’t particularly like the idea of cutting out such a core element of his character. I’ll have to come up with a way to remove it that isn’t bogus. Regardless of what I decide to do, I definitely should retcon the origin of his prophetic ability. Sure that’s how it happened in the actual thread, but it’s goofy as hell. I felt embarrassed when I had to write him describing how he ended up like this to another character lmao.

I swapped to Iris specifically because of this. One of her traits was her awkward ability to just know how someone was feeling and such with the whole seeing the Force and emotion as color. It lead to some fun moments where she'd call out someone on how they were feeling in a normally aloof way. Buuut it was often metagamey. Very much so. I leaned into it as a gimmick, and often tried to make it clear in my posts that was the whole point. Basically everyone I rped with seemed cool with it, but yeah no if the fact it's mtagamey makes you feel weird writing it, don't. It can be a really fun plot point to use, but if you're not having fun, there's no reason to keep going.

That's all I got tho I haven't rped with Marcus much to have any feedback on him.

 

[Revna]

Okay, first of all, I just need to say that I actually enjoy Marcus and the interactions Revna has been having with him. He is a little bit different than what she's "used to", and different is GOOD, in my opinion. Adds a different sort of flavor to story telling, and honestly, interacting with him has made me think on my feet a bit.

I can totally understand the issue of being a seer and the discomfort that comes behind all of that, especially with the idea of "meta-gaming". As a current writing partner with you, I do want to say this: I personally had no issues with the "meta-gaming" part of him being a seer. I, as Rev's writer, knew it was part of his character and I was prepared for it. Revna didn't know this (obviously) and so him calling out some things that she didn't know (like about Ali being a Sangnir) allowed me to walk that part of the story and honestly, it opened up an opportunity for me to start a story with Ali, and for her to figure out Ali's little "secret" through a thread that is in the works (more threads, yay! Thank you!). I am always looking for a "reason" or a purpose behind threads (for the most part), and him revealing that to her gave me that "reason" to make a thread with Ali to learn about Sangnirs. And you helped set that up!

There is a challenge it does present, however. With him revealing that he is a seer to Revna, for example, she now figures he already knows certain things about her - so why share certain stories or bring up topics or discussions? It does limit what kind of storytelling can happen after that point. If he knows everything about someone, then it does take away the mystery of learning it or allowing the other person to share it.

I do like the idea presented above by Mariah; visions can be misleading or vague, and perhaps it would be interesting to lean into that a bit. Another thought is this: his seer ability is not an all-time occurring thing. It happens randomly, maybe in flashes that make him act strange or off in the moment, but gives him a little bit of insight into a person you are RP-ing with. The other option that I would strongly recommend is, before starting a thread, is letting someone know upfront: "hey, my character is a Seer. He has the ability to see into people's backstories and know things about them that might otherwise be a secret. Are you okay or comfortable with that or would you rather I not activate this part of his personality when we write?" and let your writing partner have a say in this as well. Just an idea/suggestion for the future!

Also, from what little I've gathered and gotten to know about Silas Fogg, I really like him and I think he's a wonderful addition to your character's story, even as an NPC. I am really enjoying having Revna interact with him and I look forward to more interactions with him!

I hope this helps out somewhat. Overall, I really like Marcus as a character. His seer ability does make RP a bit challenging, but there are ways to adjust this that make it work for him, and still allow a bit of mystery into the storytelling. I'm sure others will pass on some great ideas and suggestions too. Ultimately though, he's your character and whatever you decide to do with him, is your decision in the end. If you feel that his Seer ability needs to go away, then that's that. If you want him to keep it, then awesome!

 

[Sinestra]

I haven’t read this one yet, Sally, so I can give you only advice on the seer struggles, since I write Sinestra as one.

I’ve used her seer abilities for easy “in”-s into any threads, that’s always been the prime thing I have used it for cause it makes it so easy to jump threads without having to contemplate 7 days on an angle. My visions told me I have to/should do X ahh.

So, yeah, a fantastic mcguffin. I would lean on that.

Marcus Dinn

 

[Valery Noble]

I essentially do the same as Sinestra with Vera, whose whole thing is being a Seer as well. It's not always the easiest angle, but these are some ways I've used it and had fun with it:

• Easy way into threads you want to join. Basically Sinestra's point.
• Foreshadowing. Have your character see something about themselves that shakes them up and makes them do things they otherwise wouldn't. This is easy with future visions, which you said isn't how it works for Marcus, but if he knows things he shouldn't, he might know something about himself that way?
• Work with other writers to create plots around it. I had Vera see a vision about her Mom that she told her brother about, and is soon telling others about as well to get help. It's an intense vision, so it can spark RP to try and address it.
• Plot twists. I enjoy playing into the Seer angle where they see or know something, try to change that outcome, but the very actions meant to make things better spark an entirely different, unexpected problem. This is especially fun in the role of DM, when you get others to address your Seer vision

 

[Sera Inkari]

I Can't Figure Out How to Write a Seer Without Metagaming

Hello fellow seer here!

For others: Offer possible clues to characters to use in RP. Possible visions of danger or possible events are vaguely described, and they might pull parts of it to use in their posting or not. With Sera, it's probabilities when she advises others; this is a simple option; it's great when a character is outnumbered. For example, when the Sith Emperor was fighting six or more to one, Sera was hiding, giving him a boost of likely probable outcomes. So he could sense the dangers of snipers or ships about to bust through the wall. That evening, up of the odds, made for a more compelling scene that I still remember fondly. - It was only probably futures, as I didn't know how the other writers would actually write the scene, so I made that as clear as I could and they all worked the idea really well.

If you want a curveball, sometimes get it wrong. Roll a dice if you really want to throw some chance in.

Another idea for a more personal thread, with less consequential outcomes, is that I often use a stream of consciousness she tries to put into words; this can be misleading for the person listening and can confuse her or act as a negative. In fact, Sera still has trouble concentrating on the present; she sacrifices that to see the future if she overdoes it. We've got this current arc about her craving certainty because her focus is always on an uncertain future.

If you are a more direct influence in a personal story, make the clues vague and background things to add flavor. Then it becomes just another post-aid, like thoughts, environment, actions, etc.

Also if you ever want to use the concept of the Seer-Wars, I have always talked about people manipulating events behind the scenes, small actions to stop or encourage something. A door closed, a delivery not made, a holonet post deleted etc. The smaller and more subtle, the better; then, you can have people actively sabotaging your visions or events as they are supposed to happen for good or ill.

I hope it helps; all the best.

Marcus Dinn

 

[Henna Ashina]

Very solid advice all around here, just adding with Henna I play into the mystical aspects of the force. Sometimes she sees faces, yeah, but she more often than not her visions are prophetic in nature. Prior to Tython 1 I wrote a vision of the planet becoming barren, and another of Exegol’s throne room. Varied interpretation and the char trying to figure it out is half the fun of a seer, for me. I don’t feel like you should cut it out! Just find a way to enjoy it, and clear the bigger things with your partners - but the Atticus posting I’ve read over time has seemed fine as far as not being too meta, from the outside looking in.

 

[Marcus Dinn]

Thank you to everyone who responded and offered suggestions. I did not expect this thread to get so much traction lol. Y'all have given me a lot to think about.