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Discussion What Do We Owe Our Writing Partners in PvP?

Sʜᴀᴅᴏᴡ Lᴏʀᴅ
PvP in Practice: What Would You Actually Do?

This is a follow-up to the recent discussion about telling better stories through PvP. That conversation presented a wide range of preferences and approaches. Rather than trying to combine them into a single standard, I would like to look more closely at how different writers handle specific situations, particularly when they disagree, misunderstand one another, or want incompatible things from a scene.

The questions below are open prompts rather than assertions about how PvP must be written. Please choose whichever ones interest you. Examples may come from personal experience or remain entirely hypothetical. I am particularly interested in practical choices: what you would say, what you might change, where you would compromise, and what you would do if an agreement could not be reached.

When communication forms part of an answer, an example of what that communication might look like would be especially useful. Please keep negative examples focused on behaviors and situations rather than recognizable writers or past disputes.

1. What do you personally try to contribute through PvP beyond advancing your own character's goals? How does your opposition benefit from writing with you?

2. Can you describe a time an opponent's OOC concerns caused you to change what you intended to write? What changed, and how did it affect the story or either writer's experience?

3. If your opponent produces a reasonable counter that disrupts an important moment you had planned, how do you respond?

4. What is one assumption you made about an opponent's intentions that later proved incorrect? How did that assumption affect the exchange?

5. How do you portray a competent character while still leaving meaningful openings for your opponent?

6. How do you distinguish an unfair writing practice from a reasonable choice that simply does not suit your preferences? Can you give a hypothetical example of each?

7. Your opponent's post leaves an attack too unclear for you to answer confidently. What would you say to them before requesting an edit?

8. What does respectful OOC disagreement look like in practice? Can you provide an example of how you would phrase your concerns?

9. Which problems genuinely require an edit, and which can be resolved through clarification or the next reply? What should happen if one writer requests an edit and the other believes their original action was reasonable?

10. Your opponent avoids several direct attacks but loses ground, exhausts resources, and ultimately fails their objective. Are they no-selling? Why or why not? Which nonphysical consequences can make an unsuccessful attack matter: lost position, damaged equipment, fatigue, an interrupted objective, retreat, or something else?

11. If your equipment completely negates an opponent's attack, how can you acknowledge their action without pretending it caused damage or making their effort feel wasted?

12. A potentially fatal attack reaches your character, but you do not want death or permanent injury. How would you preserve the significance of the attack while respecting your boundaries?

13. Can you describe a time an injury or defeat created character development you had not originally planned? What made the experience worthwhile?

14. Both writers want incompatible outcomes, and neither believes yielding would serve their character or the story. What would you do to determine how the scene continues?

15. If both writers believe the other caused the problem, what would accountability look like? How could they identify what went wrong without requiring either person to accept all of the blame?

16. How should someone approach an opponent who appears more interested in winning than collaborating? What observable behavior would lead you to that conclusion, and how would you address it without presuming their motives?

17. A newer writer misunderstands your character's equipment or an established PvP convention. Would you request an edit, explain the issue OOC, absorb the mistake, or incorporate it into the scene? What would determine your choice?

18. Your opponent tells you that they are no longer enjoying the exchange. What would you say or do next?

19. What is the earliest sign that collaboration is beginning to break down? How can a writer recognize that their own behavior may be contributing to it?

20. If you want to discuss a negative PvP experience publicly, how can you turn it into useful advice without making the other writer recognizable or using the discussion to ridicule them?

The goal is to collect practical approaches that other writers can consider when navigating similar situations themselves.
 
1. What do you personally try to contribute through PvP beyond advancing your own character's goals? How does your opposition benefit from writing with you?
I try to contribute a swift kick in their tooshy. They get to feel my foot in their tooshy.
2. Can you describe a time an opponent's OOC concerns caused you to change what you intended to write? What changed, and how did it affect the story or either writer's experience?
Yeah, instead of a swift kick in the tooshy I gave them a double-swift kick in the tooshy.
3. If your opponent produces a reasonable counter that disrupts an important moment you had planned, how do you respond?
Swift kick in the tooshy.
4. What is one assumption you made about an opponent's intentions that later proved incorrect? How did that assumption affect the exchange?
That I could probably not swiftly kick them in the tooshy. My foot ended lodged in their tooshy.
5. How do you portray a competent character while still leaving meaningful openings for your opponent?
If they ever turn their back on me, definite kick in the tooshy time.
6. How do you distinguish an unfair writing practice from a reasonable choice that simply does not suit your preferences? Can you give a hypothetical example of each?
They kicked me in the tooshy and I WAS "AYE, I KICK TOOSHYS" and kicked them back in the tooshy.
7. Your opponent's post leaves an attack too unclear for you to answer confidently. What would you say to them before requesting an edit?
That they probably chopped their own arm off and I'll kick them in the tooshy.
8. What does respectful OOC disagreement look like in practice? Can you provide an example of how you would phrase your concerns?
You let 'em know that you've got an accurate kick to the tooshy.
9. Which problems genuinely require an edit, and which can be resolved through clarification or the next reply? What should happen if one writer requests an edit and the other believes their original action was reasonable?
THEY ARE OUT MY CANON. tooshy kick
10. Your opponent avoids several direct attacks but loses ground, exhausts resources, and ultimately fails their objective. Are they no-selling? Why or why not? Which nonphysical consequences can make an unsuccessful attack matter: lost position, damaged equipment, fatigue, an interrupted objective, retreat, or something else?
WHAT UNSUCCESFUL ATTACK?! backflip crescent moon tooshy kick
11. If your equipment completely negates an opponent's attack, how can you acknowledge their action without pretending it caused damage or making their effort feel wasted?
I'M NOT GONNA BE IN YOUR CANON ANYWAYS! GWAAHHHHHHHHHHHH
12. A potentially fatal attack reaches your character, but you do not want death or permanent injury. How would you preserve the significance of the attack while respecting your boundaries?
YOU'RE NOT IN MY CANON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
13. Can you describe a time an injury or defeat created character development you had not originally planned? What made the experience worthwhile?
HE MADE IT INTO MY CANON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
14. Both writers want incompatible outcomes, and neither believes yielding would serve their character or the story. What would you do to determine how the scene continues?
REALITY SPLIT
15. If both writers believe the other caused the problem, what would accountability look like? How could they identify what went wrong without requiring either person to accept all of the blame?
TELL THE ADMINS THAT PERSON COULD NOT POSSIBLY AVOID MY TOOSHY KICK! R U KIDDING ME?
16. How should someone approach an opponent who appears more interested in winning than collaborating? What observable behavior would lead you to that conclusion, and how would you address it without presuming their motives?
U THINK U CAN BEAT ME?! R U KIDDING? I DONT EVEN NEED MY NEW ME.
17. A newer writer misunderstands your character's equipment or an established PvP convention. Would you request an edit, explain the issue OOC, absorb the mistake, or incorporate it into the scene? What would determine your choice?
ASK THE ADMINS FOR EMERGENCY BAN-HAMMER PERMISSIONS!
18. Your opponent tells you that they are no longer enjoying the exchange. What would you say or do next?
THAT MEANS YOU LOSE, HAHAHAHA.
19. What is the earliest sign that collaboration is beginning to break down? How can a writer recognize that their own behavior may be contributing to it?
BY GLOATING IN THEIR FACE
20. If you want to discuss a negative PvP experience publicly, how can you turn it into useful advice without making the other writer recognizable or using the discussion to ridicule them?
HOW I AM
The goal is to collect practical approaches that other writers can consider when navigating similar situations themselves.
HOW I AM
 
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Kitter Bitters

Creator of the Bitterverse
Can you describe a time an opponent's OOC concerns caused you to change what you intended to write? What changed, and how did it affect the story or either writer's experience?

I can think of two instances where this happened. The first is that I reached out to someone to ask if they wanted to write with me, but they told me my character was stale and hadn't changed in two years. This really hurt my feelings, and I went to bed crying. Eventually, I decided to try and see if I could change anything. I took the feedback and started an improvement plan for my character. I think sometimes we get hurt, but we don't let that hurt turn into opportunities to grow. So I would say that if someone says something that stings, try to step back and see if you can do anything to improve. I think sometimes we get the feels in PVP and we can lose sight of trying to better ourselves.

The second is that I was writing with someone who had a lot of tech submissions and asked me to edit a lot. I felt boxed in, and I decided to drop the thread. I'm not sure if that was the best way to handle it. In this instance, I think I should have admitted to the other writer that I was feeling suffocated and didn't know how to move forward. So I think this really shows that if you shut down and don't communicate, you miss out on fun threads.

Not sure if these experiences help, but I think they are good examples of how to handle frustrating situations.

I will answer more soon. There are a lot of these here, so I don't think this is going to be a one-sitting type of answer.
 

Kitter Bitters

Creator of the Bitterverse
Your opponent's post leaves an attack too unclear for you to answer confidently. What would you say to them before requesting an edit?

I think in this instance you should message them and just ask them what they meant. I don’t think threads shoukd be full of edits honestly. I think if you just say you are unsure and get some clarity then you can respond now that you understand.
 
Sʜᴀᴅᴏᴡ Lᴏʀᴅ
Jameris Jameris
Oh gosh, you certainly committed to the bit. If you're new here, though, welcome to Chaos! I hope you settle in, find some good writing partners, and have fun with us.

A well thought out, respectful beatdown. No more or less. Stop picking PvP apart and learn how to talk to other people. Write it out. Make mistakes. Learn.
Now why didn’t I think of that? Thanks for sharing your perspective.

Not sure if these experiences help, but I think they are good examples of how to handle frustrating situations.

These are exactly the kinds of examples I was hoping people would bring into the discussion. Thank you for taking the time to share both of them. I really appreciate how candid you were, especially because neither situation feels completely one-sided.

This is such an actionable perspective: what happened, how it affected you, and what you might do differently now.

Thank you kindly for being brave enough to talk about it so openly. I'd genuinely love to read more whenever you feel like coming back to the questions. ♡
 
12. A potentially fatal attack reaches your character, but you do not want death or permanent injury. How would you preserve the significance of the attack while respecting your boundaries?

13. Can you describe a time an injury or defeat created character development you had not originally planned? What made the experience worthwhile?

I can give an account for 12 and 13

A moment like this happened back when Ko was a padawan. It was in his first fight against Warpriest Prime Warpriest Prime in a ship over Ryloth. By the end of it Ko was subject to a mighty body slam by Dima that could've outright killed the character or left him paralyzed for life. (I know star wars medtech might've fixed him up eventually, but still.) To allow the attack to have some follow through and for Ko taste defeat he used an ability he was recently taught in a previous thread. Soft to Solid. However he was still woefully inexperienced in using the ability in any practical way. So the intensity and inefficiency of turning his entire body a solid as a diamond for just a second caused him to over exert himself and loose consciousness after the attack landed.

After the thread Ko had a broken arm for a bit and lost his lightsaber for a good while afterwards because Dima stole it. Leaving him a fair bit less capable as a jedi until he finally managed to retrieve it.
 
Sʜᴀᴅᴏᴡ Lᴏʀᴅ
I can give an account for 12 and 13

A moment like this happened back when Ko was a padawan. It was in his first fight against Warpriest Prime Warpriest Prime in a ship over Ryloth. By the end of it Ko was subject to a mighty body slam by Dima that could've outright killed the character or left him paralyzed for life. (I know star wars medtech might've fixed him up eventually, but still.) To allow the attack to have some follow through and for Ko taste defeat he used an ability he was recently taught in a previous thread. Soft to Solid. However he was still woefully inexperienced in using the ability in any practical way. So the intensity and inefficiency of turning his entire body a solid as a diamond for just a second caused him to over exert himself and loose consciousness after the attack landed.

After the thread Ko had a broken arm for a bit and lost his lightsaber for a good while afterwards because Dima stole it. Leaving him a fair bit less capable as a jedi until he finally managed to retrieve it.

I think that's a really solid example. I think that's actually a great way of handling it. I really appreciate the care you put into explaining not only what you would do, but the reasoning behind it.

I've had the privilege of writing PvP with you before, and I think you're an exceptionally good example of the kind of opponent I enjoy writing against. You give the other writer room to do things, you acknowledge what they're attempting, and you seem much more interested in where the exchange can take both characters than in simply proving yours can 'win' the exchange.

I especially appreciate the sense of trust that creates. I don't feel like I need to guard every sentence or anticipate how something might be interpreted when I'm writing against you; I can actually focus on the scene and the story we're creating together. That's a quality I value tremendously in a writing partner.

So ~ Thank you, both for contributing this perspective here and for practicing a lot of what you're talking about when we actually write together. ♡
 
20. For me, if it seems like the opponent is forcing me to chase without end and no actual fighting in a fighting thread or making me feel like a seal clubbing then without any real pushback, then I ask to myself whats the point in writing? Why would I do this when I might spend time somewhere else that I will actually enjoy?

AKA: Don't falsely advertise your character for something they don't want to engage in.
 
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You've given me enough pretense to share unsolicited turn-based competitive game wisdom. Woe is ye.

Fortunately for you, I like to keep things brief.

Because PvP leans into competitive aspects, the fundamental advice I can give is to always maintain impeccable sportsmanship. Displaying poor sportsmanship is the fastest way to end up as the star of some rant in DMs on discord.

Recognize the competitive aspects, talk with your opponent, and most importantly don't take it too seriously. The most fun you'll have is when you and your opponent find a groove where you're both respectful and just jamming in a creative back and forth. If you get your pride tied up in it, or god forbid your identity (read: ego) it's over, Anakin.

And on the topic of communication, that includes warning the other person about mistakes they might be making and generally talking through strategy. Don't tip your hand, but inform your opponent of potential options and effects so they can make informed decisions, rather than having them find out in the next round that they had missed XYZ equipment you had concealed in ten layers of factory hyperlinks.



I also had a few takes of varying quality on your questions. Have to keep this relevant somehow, huh.

3. If your opponent produces a reasonable counter that disrupts an important moment you had planned, how do you respond?
Roll with the punches. This is what collaborative writing is about, it's improv at the core. We can be authors and have moments planned, but without a readiness to embrace unexpected consequences, it might as well be a script we're following, which takes out a lot of the fun and social aspect.


5. How do you portray a competent character while still leaving meaningful openings for your opponent?
Depends,

for a one off? Take some hits, whatever that means, but don't land on the back-foot unless you genuinely get outplayed.

for a longer storyline over multiple threads? Don't lose, embrace the villain role. Make 'em struggle until they get the desperate win. Works for either Jedi or Sith, funnily enough.


7. Your opponent's post leaves an attack too unclear for you to answer confidently. What would you say to them before requesting an edit?
Nine out of ten times I'm probably just keeping it ambiguous myself also because I just want to get a post out, but if we're taking things seriously then point out the ambiguity, explain your interpretation and how you're going to exploit it in your favour, then give them the chance to edit.


10. Your opponent avoids several direct attacks but loses ground, exhausts resources, and ultimately fails their objective. Are they no-selling? Why or why not? Which nonphysical consequences can make an unsuccessful attack matter: lost position, damaged equipment, fatigue, an interrupted objective, retreat, or something else?
Losing whichever of these are genuinely important to your character. Any effect can be made consequential if its consequences are adequately portrayed.

My enemy shot off my blaster's backup power pack? Damn, now I got three shots and nothing in reserve.


11. If your equipment completely negates an opponent's attack, how can you acknowledge their action without pretending it caused damage or making their effort feel wasted?
Give them a chance to gain an insight into why their attack failed and how they can iterate. Mind you, you can't actually think for them. You can point stuff out and give them a chance to iterate, but they gotta do that themselves.

Not every attack needs to be acknowledged. Sometimes an attack just sucks or isn't well thought-through.


13. Can you describe a time an injury or defeat created character development you had not originally planned? What made the experience worthwhile?
As with my first answer, these unexpected moments lend themselves beautifully to improv. They're wonderful explorative writing exercises and they often force you to give a character actual depth. Winning is fun, but it's failure that defines character growth, and that's ultimately what your typical character plot is about.


14. Both writers want incompatible outcomes, and neither believes yielding would serve their character or the story. What would you do to determine how the scene continues?
Roll a die. Or flip a coin, whichever you trust more.


18. Your opponent tells you that they are no longer enjoying the exchange. What would you say or do next?
Do some work-shopping. Ask open-ended question and empathize with their situation, see if we can figure out where it went wrong and the best way to adjust to make it fun for both.
 

Matt the Radar Tech

ꜰɪxɪɴɢ ᴛʜᴏsᴇ ʀᴀᴅᴀʀs ᴀɴᴅ sᴛᴜꜰꜰ
I boil it down to: Don't be a power gamer - give hits and take hits.

Also don't try to box your opponent in (like what happened with KB above). It sucks when every move a character makes has a lethal solution. Fighting should be messy and sometimes not bringing a small armory of factory approved items can be the way for all to enjoy.

Finally, just collaborate. Not every detail, but broad strokes. It helps and keeps things clean for all involved.

I remember a character of mine (Sith Lord + apprentice) appeared in an invasion thread, isolated in a jungle on a BYOO, to pick plants for experimentation. The first opponent who attacked zeroed in on my char, arrived at his location, fired a Force tamper-proof proximity sensor missile capable of destroying tanks from concealment, and wrote the encounter as though it was one and done.

I tried to play fairly and keep within the spirit of the factory item, and used TK to raise a huge growth of ground between the missile and my char. It wasn't perfect, but I put some thought into it, rather than just 'lol, dodge' or trying to dismiss the proximity aspect.

I then had to listen to an argument about how that wouldn't work, etc, etc, etc.

Later, more characters appeared (to this secluded location), and it became a 3v1 with other smaller engagements for my apprentice at the time. It was just a cluster of attacks and Force powers thrown at us without end, and we (myself and apprentice) just retreated because we got fed up with having to defend every action we took, being expected to accept god-level attacks, and not given any back-and-forth on equal attack exchange.

It really soured PvP for me, for a long time.

So, now, I talk to an opponent in DM and roughly outline an outcome we're both happy with - without bogging it down in specifics, just a overall aim to achieve. Generally I ask if someone has a goal or narrative pursuit, we share them, and try to thread the needle. A lot of the time I give way to the other person and take the beating. My Sith didn't win a single fight. But that was fine, because it was collaborative.

The best fight I've had in PvP since then was against Tegan Starfall Tegan Starfall (with Jand). That was one instance where both our goals aligned and Jand landed a win, but took a brutal beating for it. I didn't mind, I've had my character's butts kicked a lot.

But it was fun, we discussed, and it flowed smoothly.
 
5. How do you portray a competent character while still leaving meaningful openings for your opponent?
Stick to your guns with your character. You know them and what they're capable of, although do so within reason and allow for fair play. If it could happen, roll with it and take the hit. Though at the same time, don't be afraid to not take the hit that doesn't seem to make sense. On the other hand, take some time to get to know the character of your writing partner as well and become more familiar with their capabilities as well. I'm not always the best at this, though I would like to be.
 

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