Unified Ship/Fleet Size Reference Document

[Jorus Merrill]

So I've spent the last little while dealing with a bunch of rules-lawyering whining about 'may' versus 'may not' and what minor factions can field and so forth. The annoying part is that our ship/fleet size rules are sort of scattered around, and there are arguments over which takes precedence and which aren't enforced and all that nonsense. We need, really need, a unified and binding ship/fleet length reference chart that consolidates all the little rules from all over the place. It wouldn't be too big, just enough to solidify the following:

• Combat ship length, non-combat ship length, and fleet length for corporations, just numbers, no formulas -- all of that per tier. As per the templates, tiers that can field combat ships over 1000m can only field one each of Star Destroyers and Dedicated Carriers. Everything else combat-worthy has to be under 1000.
• Minor factions: PC-captained up to 1000m, escorts/other ships up to 400m.
• Major factions: No restrictions apart from common sense.

Seriously, this needs to be locked down now. There's a whole lotta fleeting going on now, which pleases me, but I pulled the above from like five different locations in the rules, several of which can be legitimately taken as mutually contradictory. Every one of the above points has a contentious interpretation and rules lawyers that won't shut up -- and actually have valid points.

One unified, binding chart comprising the above points would solve everything.

Give me approval to make a chart and I will do it immediately.

[member="Cira"] [member="Spencer Varanin"]

 

[Raziel]

Combat ship length, non-combat ship length, and fleet length for corporations, just numbers, no formulas

Yes please. A table with 6 rows >> several formulae

 

[Haytham Kaze]

Shouldn't this be an idea for the board, rather than for the Factory?

 

[Jorus Merrill]

[member="Haytham Kaze"]

Most (though not all) of these rules are only found in the Factory templates and reference documents.

 

[Ellie Mors]

Shouldn't this be an idea for the board, rather than for the Factory?

All rule changes proposed by factory judges (specifically those to be done regarding the factory) must be stated in the Factory Judge discussion forum.

A regular member would go about suggesting the idea either through the board Suggestion & Feedback forum or the Factory Discussion (via the Idea prefix), but as a factory judge proposing a change to the factory it needs to come through here.

-
[member="Jorus Merrill"]
If I'm not asking too much, would you be able to draw up an example of how you'd want this organized (i.e; layout) and where? My thoughts would be to just add another post onto the Starship Template & Information thread with a chart or table listing this information, but I would like to see an example of your idea, too.

 

[Ellie Mors]

To amend the above -

By example I just mean a list of what information you want on there, or even just a quote of each of the rules that dictate fleet stuff regarding factions & companies.

 

[Jorus Merrill]

[member="Lily Kuhn"] [member="Spencer Varanin"] [member="Cira"]

Didn't see the amendment, so I made a draft. Our current rules really are scattered everywhere, incomplete, and mutually contradictory. If this looks pretty complicated, it's because this is what you get when you pull everything together into one whole picture. It's a big ol' bureaucratic mess, everyone understands it differently or only knows half the rules, and as fleeting keeps getting popular we'll see a lot more problems.

 

[Ellie Mors]

[member="Jorus Merrill"]
You are awesome, I'll read this over.

 

[Ellie Mors]

[member="Jorus Merrill"]
I like it, but I think that the 401-1000 meters requiring a PC to captain them might not be correct, or at least not based on what I see in the Starship template

1. An individual character may not own a ship greater than 400 meters in length. Ships over 400 meters must be owned by a Faction (Major or Minor) or Company, and may be captained by the character, but in case of leaving will not go with them without exceptional circumstances and faction administrator approval.

I underlined/highlighted the text from where I've derived my statement from. I don't think it necessarily is required that they are captained by PCs, only that a character cannot own a ship over 400m and it must be owned by a faction (major or minor) or company.

Unless this is found somewhere else, in which case - whoopsies!

 

[Jorus Merrill]

[member="Lily Kuhn"]

That's one of the points of contention, yeah. The main issue here is this, from elsewhere in the same document:

Minor Faction Rules

1. Minor factions are permitted unique, PC-captained ships up to a length of 1,000 meters

As written, minor faction only get PC-captained ships, regardless of length. Traditionally, they also get a free pass on ships up to 400m, because any character can own ships that size without restriction or a need for PC captaincy.

This is one of the areas where clarity is needed. My setup in the document is my best attempt at making all these things internally consistent, as well as in line with the interpretations that staff have traditionally made: minor factions get a free pass up to 400m, anything 400-1000 needs to be PC-captained.

 

[Ellie Mors]

[member="Jorus Merrill"]
I can see that. I agree that this needs clarity, and if it's intended to be the case then everything you have there is 100% perfect.

 

[Allyson Locke]

That's interesting. I like the idea, but this also shows that I need to go through the rules and fix some stuff le sigh

 

[Cira]

Looks good. Agreed.

 

[ADM. Reshmar]

[member="Jorus Merrill"] @Cira @Spencer Varanin [member="Darth Vitium"] [member="Haytham Kaze"]
Can we amend the mass use ships size limit to 500 meters to give minor factions a chance to use full-size frigates. Alot of this fleeting going on it with minor factions and I think this will help alleviate the whole "why are we limited to 1km" argument.

 

[Gir Quee]

Looking at Jorus's draft (since we're looking at general clarity here), are we treating company owned warships that aren't over 1000 meters like those of minor factions (in other words, they have to be smaller than 400 meters if they're not PC-captained)? Or are they exempt from the PC captain clause that minor factions are beholden to?

 

[Jorus Merrill]

[member="Gir Quee"]

As written, the 1000m/400m stuff only applies to minor factions right now; corporations don't have those restrictions.

 

[Raziel]

The table makes it clear it's a little too complex

 

[Ellie Mors]

[member="Raziel"]
Agreed, especially the "May only own one 1000-1xxxx meter vessel, but no other combat ship over 1000 meters" in like 4 different size classes, and the 1-400 & 401-1000 PC captain thing for minor factions.

 

[Raziel]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ha-m9MkXgFVFbYTOcvdhut_yiZhiwV8tlH2CfWNhNxA/edit?usp=sharing

[member="Jorus Merrill"]

 

[Jorus Merrill]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ha-m9MkXgFVFbYTOcvdhut_yiZhiwV8tlH2CfWNhNxA/edit?usp=sharing

[member="Jorus Merrill"]

To me, that's absolutely ideal. It'll mean changing a lot of little things in a lot of places, a comprehensive overhaul, but I believe it's worth doing.