Sith Alchemy Restrictions

[Jamie Pyne]

I've been noticing a steady increase in Sith Alchemy submissions where people are beginning to pass these off as equally resistant to lightsabers as say, Beskar. I am beginning to wonder if, because it is common place to require dev threads on typical creations that are equally resistant to such things that this should be looked at more closely, perhaps requiring a development thread regardless, to simply reflect that the item was alchemized, and is increasing the strength of a typical item to something above what is typically plausible. The reason being I feel that this is opening a loophole to people entirely avoiding doing dev threads for work simply by slapping "sith alchemy" onto the description.

 

[Cira]

[member="Jamie Pyne"]

Sith alchemy, like in sith swords per canon are lightsaber resistant.

Sith swords were constructed through various metallurgical and arcane means, transmuting base metals into an alchemical alloy possessing an unusual affinity for dark side energies. The rare metallic compounds used in its construction could result in blades varying in weight from 3 kilograms up to 6.5 kilograms, a blade far heavier than its 1.4 meter length[source?] would indicate. It often required great strength of body as well as in the Force to successfully wield the weapon and make it as dangerous as a lightsaber. In fact, the alchemical alterations allowed the Sith sword to block incoming lightsaber attacks, as well as deflect and redirect blaster bolts in much the same way a lightsaber did.[2]

A user skilled in the dark side could alter the weapon's molecular structure, making it stronger and sharper, and reverse its magnetic polarity, turning it into a high-temperature superconductor that could deflect blaster bolts and other particle weapons as if magnetically sealed.

It is canon that the alchemization process makes them lightsaber resistant.

However, remember you have the Stan Dev guidelines here:

Still a Judge reserves the right to ask for a dev thread for something ambitious that isn't on this list so please be aware of that. Any questions please inbox me and I'll answer there - I'd like to keep this thread clutter free.

Other than that, here is a rough standardization of what needs a dev thread.

Factory Dev Thread Guide

• Anything created with restricted Items. ( IE A. The mining resource thread or B. Link to purchase of restricted item along with the sellers original resource mining thread.)
• Anything beyond a canon precedence that does not have at the very least, three reasonable and balanced weaknesses to prevent powergaming.
• Flagships. ( details here )
• Stealth Tech.
• Powerarmor.
• Force Artifacts or Holocrons ( Not including personal holocrons).
• Any item that is alchemized beyond an existing canon precedent.
• Any Force nullification items without reasonable weaknesses.
• Moving / creating of a new Company Headquarters.
• To start a subsidiary of a Tier V+ company at III.
• To start a company with an abnormal amount/unrelated operations.

As a judge, one looks for fairness and balance. We overview the entire submission, and continue on from there.


If whatever they are making has like five different things and looks pretty crazy without some fair weaknesses, then yes, you may ask for more development.


Alchemy isn't a free for all, we just judge it accordingly based on what is there.

 

[Jamie Pyne]

per canon are lightsaber resistant

• I don't see how this matters? Cortosis and Phrik and Beskar are lightsaber resistant, they're still on the list...

Still a Judge reserves the right to ask for a dev thread for something ambitious that isn't on this list so please be aware of that.

• True. But the fact of the matter is that because the precedent is that "Sith Alchemy doesn't require dev" in asking for any kind of development the submitter has the argument that 'X, X, X and X submissions didn't require it so why should this?" And it would be a valid argument.

My point is not that Sith Alchemy doesn't have canon evidence to back up the fact that it is lightsaber resistant, my point is that it is being substituted in a way that I don't think is entirely fair to dodge having to do development work because it is seen as the norm. I don't quite understand why Alchemy is given a free pass to be lightsaber-proof, when all of the other materials require development to do essentially the same thing, with some having some minor difference or otherwise benefit.

I just feel like it's a way of dodging the system.

 

[Cira]

[member="Jamie Pyne"]

Sith Alchemy doesn't have canon evidence

Sith Swords are created through sith alchemy and it is canon based on what effects it has, to include being lightsaber resistant.



Each submission is stand alone.

If the qualities of the submission are beyond canon ( like in a sith sword) then yes, you may ask for more development.

I don't see how this matters? Cortosis and Phrik and Beskar are lightsaber resistant, they're still on the list...

There are more than just phrik, beskar, and songsteel that are lightsaber resistant.

We have duraplast, mandalorian iron, turadium, Greater Calama shell, yorrik coral, and that is just to name a few. There are a dozen more materials that are canon or chaos created that do the same thing -- but they are not required to do development as in the restricted materials. Same thing goes with your basic Yuuzhan Vong tech.

Again, if the submission is greater than canon, then we ask for at least 3 weaknsses and a judge reserves the right to ask for a dev thread for something ambitious that isn't on this list.

You as a judge, have a right to ask for additional development.

If the item is ambitious, yes, you can request for additional development.

Previous submissions are only used as a reference point on what has been done before; but they are not the end all.

 

[Cira]

And if they argue with you, then you can still go --- Pls do a dev thread of [ enter a range of posts ] for this item or you can remove [ x ] features so that you can do it without dev.

You have all the power as judges, and if you are concerned about an item, you can crowd source with your other Fj's , factory RPj's or Factory Admin.

Ultimately, if you ask for development, and they argue, odds are we'll back you up and they'll need to do the development.

Rarely is your gut instinct wrong.

If they keep arguing, then tell them that if they don't do dev, they can do edits. If they don't do edits and still want to argue, deny and they can second chance.

 

[Jamie Pyne]

[member="Cira"]

My point is not that Sith Alchemy doesn't have canon evidence

There are more than just phrik, beskar, and songsteel that are lightsaber resistant.

I am aware of that, these are just quite often the most common applications.

But alright.

I just don't see what the purpose is of having common-place materials that are not in any way difficult to obtain like Phrik, through both objective and discovery, be restricted then, when there is almost no purpose to having them be restricted given the countless ways people can go around having to do it with notably less common materials?

What's the sense in bothering with development for these seemingly common items? They should just be removed from the list, with only true materials that would be reasonably difficult to obtain, remaining.

I don't see how the argument can go both ways in favor of having some common items be restricted, while there are countless others that are not, and are less commonly found. Either they should all be unrestricted or they should all require some kind of baseline development to achieve.

For example:

• Phrik can be found on about a dozen planets.
• Greater Calama are found on a single planet, the product of Sith Alchemy, yet as you said, is not restricted.

My question then is, why? Because less people know about it? I am not following the logic behind why certain things are being restricted for what looks to be no reason, when they are both more common and available than items that are not on the list.

 

[Cira]

My question then is, why? Because less people know about it? I am not following the logic behind why certain things are being restricted for what looks to be no reason, when they are both more common and available than items that are not on the list.

Because we are reactive. Not proactive.

The bulk of the items on the restricted list are based on mass abuse or due to reports being filed.

Orbalisks, beskar, and some of the others were through mass exploitation or due to reports. And thus, added to the restricted materials list.

Beskar, phirk, and cortosis are all rare materials -- but we don't consider them to be a finite source here. There is no way we can do that.

Before, when all the Yuuzhan Vong tech and Ysalimir items were being put in the factory, a suggestion was stated that we should put them both on the restricted list. But board staff denied it because it was just being proactive instead of reactive.

Otherwise we'd have so many items on that restricted list ( as much as [member="Raziel"] would LOVE that ) it wouldn't make sense.

Fairness and balance in a submission is the key.

If more and more sith alchemy items get reported for abuse, then yes I can see it going onto the restricted list -- but not because it is lightsaber resistant. But then again, I see no reason for someone to do development thread on say... an amulet that does the same thing as a canon protection sith amulet or a lesser Force imbuement. A totem that can summon a monkey? And that monkey just is a companion and you can't even control said monkey? Okay.. sure have your totem that can summon a monkey.

A sith sword that has an imbuement to help you focus your energy? Well that's canon, sure.

Leather armor that was alchemized and force imbued as well as can do three other things? Whoa hold on there, I'ma need some development for this. And some weaknesses. Kinetic damage, can't be used in a ysalamir field for the imbuements, cannot allow you to be hidden from the Force.

Fairness and balance.

 

[Jamie Pyne]

Fairness and balance in a submission is the key.

Sure. I get that.

What I don't follow is the logic of:
Less people know about these other materials over here that do the exact same thing so we won't add them to the list.

Despite them being equally rare, the only reason they aren't on the list is that they are submitted less because less people know about it.

I guess I just don't agree that it's being proactive because when it all comes to, for all intents & purposes, the only difference is the name.

But this horse is well and beaten so I will just let it be.

 

[Ellie Mors]

Sure. I get that.

What I don't follow is the logic of:
Less people know about these other materials over here that do the exact same thing so we won't add them to the list.

Despite them being equally rare, the only reason they aren't on the list is that they are submitted less because less people know about it.

I guess I just don't agree that it's being proactive because when it all comes to, for all intents & purposes, the only difference is the name.

But this horse is well and beaten so I will just let it be.

Staff is reactive, not proactive.

 

[Raziel]

Any particular examples that have troubled you?

I tend to let Sith swords without too many special abilities through and minor trinkets.

Anything much more than that...

 

[Allyson Locke]

Staff is reactive, not proactive.

Like what Lily said, we haven't had any previous issues with sith alchemy and most people are fine with doing the dev especially since we do have it in the standard dev guideline. If people give you issues just quote that and if they continue, deny and they can deal with me or the other RPJs.

Like what Raz said, is there a particular item that brought this up or was it just something that you were noticing. If there's at trend of Alchemy items that are getting a bit more insane, we can further the conversation to possibly looking into actually setting up a legit alchemy guideline.

I do want to avoid continuing to constrain people to guidelines and rules, so if its nothing overly serious I want to remain a reactive staff. I've already seen the decline in using of the factory and it makes me wonder if we're getting too overbearing with rules and removing the fun out of all of it.

[member="Raziel"] [member="Lily Kuhn"] [member="Jamie Pyne"] [member="Cira"]

 

[Jamie Pyne]

[member="Raziel"]

No. Nothing in particular. I just don't really agree with the process of how certain materials that are more common ended up on the list than things that are much more vague but fundamentally exactly the same. [member="Cira"] answered the how they ended up there, which is fine, I just don't agree with the why, but the answer is just "reactive not proactive" so it's not really worth continuing the discussion any further to me.

Edit because I didn't see [member="Spencer Varanin"] post.

At this point I would more shift my debate to be removing some items from being restricted, given the above. I honestly can't see a purpose to forcing people to dev at all for Phrik. If there are so many materials and ways to make things lightsaber resistant, this in my eyes no longer belongs on the list. There are tons of planets to obtain the material from. I would just say to limit the production on these if they are considered "rare" rather than force dev threads.

 

[Cira]

[member="Jamie Pyne"]

Okay, we may have a viable compromise. Spencer will set up a proposal tonight.