Rules Update Ruling Recall & Explanation

[Roth Likonis]

That is very reassuring - at a glance, it looked like staff was talking about cutting out a major driving force in Star Wars (there's a reason, after all, that only the Rebellion had aliens in the original trilogy). In my understanding, though, this is really geared towards the rare RPer who wants to create real world parallels to an unhealthy degree.

That being the case, I'm all for these rules. If this were a pure content creation site it would be borderline censorship, but as an RP site I understand the need to have a policy in place. Keep it up staff, I know firsthand how hard it is to implement things like this. All things considered, it going pretty smooth.

- Roth

Valiens Nantaris

 

[Wedge Draav]

We can still hate aliens though right

 

[Joy]

My two cents: you're not allowed to write an in-depth description of what a serrated knife can do to another person, in specific areas of their anatomy, followed by a vivid description of how you felt when performing said task on someone. This is in, despite the fact, that we have several talented writers who could go into such vivid detail about performing said actions in character. The reason why nobody writes such descriptive writing on this board is because we're all agreed that nobody wants to read that, and from a personal point of view, nobody wants the stigma of being seen as, we Englishmen like to say, "a nutter".

No. Such an "attack" would come down to a few short words of, "I am trying to stab you with this knife. What are you going to do about it?" and that is just about as much description is needed for such an important function of roleplay. People do write about their characters attacking someone else's character with a weapon, such as a knife, all the time and it never crosses that uncomfortable line because we understand the intent isn't to disturb or gross out someone OOC, it's just a function of roleplaying.

Conversely, this sentiment can be applied to a whole host of things that can equally cross into that disturbing, and quite frankly, cringe type of roleplaying that we have all seen, and experienced in other boards or communities. We've all been doing this a long time and we've all met that one guy who likes to cross the line.

As this applies to this particular thread to the banning and outright censorship of racism, and homophobia, my understanding and interpretation of this ruling is very simple. In the same way that nobody wants to read a 1K word essay of someone's character flaying another's character in some dodgy private thread we also don't want to read the same descriptive writing that outlines a characters racist or homophobic views for the exact same reason.

It's cringe, disgusting and, even if it were "allowed" would amount to people not wanting to write with you anyway.

If nothing else gets through to the people debating this then I can summarize my thoughts with this: the guy who owns the website has told you that he doesn't want this written here. That's it. He isn't going to change his mind about it. He has said it more than enough times throughout this thread telling you so. At this point further discussion seems trivial, reads as egotistical (you don't want to lose an argument) or you appear to be arguing in bad faith to make Tefka look bad.

 

[Ducha Relina Zhan]

I support the rules as written on an OOC level. IC, however, it's a completely different matter. As a Hapan, I play a character loyal to the Hapes Consortium and that faction has a well-known history of misandry (The male version of misogyny). Misogyny plays a role in the earliest parts of Hapan history and is why modern Hapes is misandrist in the first place... well, on paper, anyway. Asinine as it may sound, that's canon and recent events brewing has me digging in my heels to keep that way for authenticity.

 

[Aloy Vizsla]

4. Misogyny.

This one is the troublemaker. I will keep this one brief, because the explanation is pretty brief. I personally dont want it on Chaos. I dont think “I hate women” is an important enough topic to explore in Star Wars nor at Chaos. However, it is the SWRP Staff Team and I’s determination, upon closer look, that the definition is simply too unclear and all encompassing for us as Staff to enforce and for you the writers to understand. It’s not a matter of intelligence, the fault doesn’t lie with you or us, the definition is simply too large and confusing. “Contempt, hatred, or prejudice for.”

As muddied as racism might be, misogyny is a hundred times more confusing to simply have as a one-off rule. It might have been well intended, but it was not a well thought out inclusion to the rule.

Misogyny has been removed from the ruling.

Ducha Relina Zhan that last bit might interest you then, incase you missed it

 

[Tefka]

We can still hate aliens though right

Yes. Xenophobia is fine.

 

[Tefka]

He isn't going to change his mind about it. He has said it more than enough times throughout this thread telling you so. At this point further discussion seems trivial, reads as egotistical (you don't want to lose an argument) or you appear to be arguing in bad faith to make Tefka look bad.

I appreciate the help but it’s unnecessary. Some people want to be heard, some people are still confused, some people are curious.

They are allowed to discuss, and ask, and get smarter. I mean, I could easily do a “because I said so” moment but we don’t often do thst with these big topical threads, it’s important we discuss things as a community and people feel heard. Also, most of our community rulings should be easily defensible without “because I said so”. I feel this one is very airtight.

Even the ego guys who just come in to win internet points are welcome, they need love too.

 

[Tefka]

I support the rules as written on an OOC level. IC, however, it's a completely different matter. As a Hapan, I play a character loyal to the Hapes Consortium and that faction has a well-known history of misandry (The male version of misogyny). Misogyny plays a role in the earliest parts of Hapan history and is why modern Hapes is misandrist in the first place... well, on paper, anyway. Asinine as it may sound, that's canon and recent events brewing has me digging in my heels to keep that way for authenticity.

You should reread the post, I feel like you missed a major part at the end where misogyny got removed from the ruling.

 

[Joy]

I support the rules as written on an OOC level. IC, however, it's a completely different matter. As a Hapan, I play a character loyal to the Hapes Consortium and that faction has a well-known history of misandry (The male version of misogyny). Misogyny plays a role in the earliest parts of Hapan history and is why modern Hapes is misandrist in the first place... well, on paper, anyway. Asinine as it may sound, that's canon and recent events brewing has me digging in my heels to keep that way for authenticity.

This is all good, and all, but speaking as a man I don't care about misandry, and quite frankly, I would rather like it if some Hapan lady would tell me off tbh.

 

[Tefka]

If this were a pure content creation site it would be borderline censorship

This is 100% censorship in the same way writing graphic violence or porn here is censored.

No reason to mince words.

 

[Tefka]

This is all good, and all, but speaking as a man I don't care about misandry, and quite frankly, I would rather like it if some Hapan lady would tell me off tbh.

The LFG forum is down the hall, second door on the left.

 

[Max Sinn]

Misogyny & Xenophobia (Human Supremacy) some of the foundations of the Original Empire sounds like they are still intact all is well as that is part of Star Wars. Sounds all fine to me.

 

[Ducha Relina Zhan]

This is all good, and all, but speaking as a man I don't care about misandry, and quite frankly, I would rather like it if some Hapan lady would tell me off tbh.

And that's all very well and good. None of it meant OOCly, of course. The point was to have something that will clash with the rest of the galaxy's sensibilities while still offering a technologically forward-thinking faction with a formidable military and economic presence. The EU books succeeded in portraying them that way, even if ALOT of the implied misadry of the Consortium was lampshaded pretty hard. Personally, I write Hapes in a similarly lampshaded fashion, showing sexism mainly in traditional social constructs (such as family life). At the end of the day, the actual conflicts arising from Hapan idiosyncrasies don't really ever seem to cause any real issue.... except until recently where it looks like that's about to come to a head...

 

[Ducha Relina Zhan]

You should reread the post, I feel like you missed a major part at the end where misogyny got removed from the ruling.

No no. I read that. I was responding in light of that. I am simply stating my own perspective based on what I come here to write about. That's why I was saying that, if the misogyny rule remained, I'd totally support it as an OOC rule. All i want to see, personally, is for global community rules to not significantly affect the RP content while being more of an OOC ruleset, which is totally warranted and acceptable. That's what I was getting at. Star Wars has such a diverse spread of various elements touching on the best and worst of RL Human behaviour and it is good to face these issues down in IC content.

 

[Treoff Kellak]

I'm late on this, but it makes me respect you some more, Tefka. Thanks. Outside of the rulings, I'm just thankful for the self accepting accountability.

 

[Tefka]

Ducha Relina Zhan

Sure but you’ve got three posts in this thread fighting ghosts and hypotheticals. Go be a man hater IC. Nothing exists that stops that.

Are you right to be concerned we’re edging closer to banning those topics? Sure, I feel that. Slippery slopes and all that. “They came for my neighbors and I said nothing.” What will they ban next? I understand the concern.

But it hasn’t happened, and I can tell you it’s unlikely to happen. While I won’t let a 90’s EU story dictate what I feel is acceptable in our environment, I do have respect for the impact the Hapan stories have on the Expanded Universe, and I don’t think I nor Chaos should ignore or manipulate the elements that comprise that story.

Where does the slippery slope end?

Today, with racism and homophobia in roleplay. We’ll reconvene when society and culture progresses further to see if we update later.

 

[Sycorax Laveaux]

 

[Onrai]

I would rather like it if some Hapan lady would tell me off tbh.

idk what to think about this