Read Me

[Miss Blonde]

So I haven't done this in a while so excuse me if I'm rusty. So recently I've been hearing a lot of complaining about masters and force gods, now I'm not going to lie I've been right there on the queen train straight to complainville, but I think I have the clarity to take a step back and give my opinion on what exactly it is people's jimmies are being rustled over. So let's talk about masters and "force gods"

What are force gods? Well they are players who can do some pretty ridiculous things. Now I'm not going to go into specifics but yes I have come across these over powered characters and it's been messy. Sometimes I sorely wish that masters would have to limit themselves to movie or TV show level force users instead of the dragon ball Z stuff I've seen around here. But then again I've never had a master so maybe I haven't had the "master syndrome" that I've heard of. But regardless of that people who have master level characters aren't inherently over powered and bad. I've seen very responsible masters and writers and to be honest it's not the rank, it's a freaken word that doesn't mean anything. I've seen padawans do master level crap, and I've seen masters go toe to toe with NFUs and lose. However I will admit that is very rare on this board.

The problem isn't the tag, it's the writer. If a writer wants to be the most OP character great grandson of Revan and Luke Skywalker Darth Bane Jango Fett's cousin who can dodge any hit and wins all their fights because they have a superior character who has done 30,000 word dev threads on how they can levitate a ball into a cup. Well excuse my language but fuck off and find a different site to write on, cause I'm not going to be writing with you at any time.

Which brings me to my next point. Besides invasions, no one is forcing you to write with these people. Just do what I do, walk the other way. Now invasions that's a different story what with the rules and what not, that I can see being a pain in the ass since you are forced to write with them or give the other team a better chance of destroying all your development. Now personally I think you should take a step back and realize it's a fictional universe and none of this stuff holds any bearing in your life. Now myself chaos is really my only form of entertainment besides Netflix and exercise. So I'm on here more often than usual since I use my phone and I see a lot of people in Skype chats who are pissed. Yeah there's some favoritism and cliques and maybe the site ruins friendships over trivial things, but the same thing exists in real life so it's not going to be different here, but I'm getting off point now.

Masters. It's not the tag it's the person. Now if you are the type of person who writes a "force god" I just have something important to tell you and I really hope you take it to heart.

"playing god is easy. Now playing human is where it gets difficult" -Aaron your favorite SJW

Good morning noon or night guys.

 

[Alndys]

"playing god is easy. Now playing human is where it gets difficult"

Now, I've never been one to go light on Godmode. I've, in fact, wrote a guide helping people to not do that thing. On the other hand, I also write the most ridiculous Mary Sue piece of garbage on the board, so take it with a grain of salt - I like to keep my poles covered.

That said, into the meat of me playing Velok's Advocate:

Running a train on another player is only fun for the person doing it, and only if they're supremely selfish. To be sure, it's a condemnable action, and anyone doing it will likely have a very short career here on SWRP - despite what some might think, Masterhood approval is neither an arbitrary nor easy accomplishment. It still isn't a blank check to do 'DBZ' nonsense. Sure, some might consider it thus, and they tend to get shut down pretty hard in the form of reports from the people they're trying to demolish. Historically speaking, the staff isn't at all shy about telling those people to calm down, stand down, or whatever. SWRP staff might seem like an insular club from the outside, but Tef's priority has - and this remains true from my time as staff to today - been focused on new users and writers.

That said, let's examine some nonsense.

Limiting Star Wars to the TV shows and Movies is, I feel, entirely unreasonable. Most of our lore comes from the books and comics, in fact - and once we start picking and choosing what is or is not cromulent to use (aside the really absurd stuff like Dragons) then things get much, much more complicated for the new guys who have to tip-toe around the house rules. So let's say, for purposes of my argument, that SWRP allows, and will always allow, the material covered in the books and comics. I think that's a safe thing to assume.

Let's look at some nonsense.

Luke Skywalker held himself in place with the Force with enough... err, force, to resist the event horizon of a black hole and then rip it inside out.

Not one to be outdone, Palpatine tore a hole in space and time to destroy the Republic Fleet.

Yoda could lift and move around two of these bad boys, simultaneously, in his prime.

Revan Force-Lifted a language, learning it instantly. He gave it back later, permenantly retaining it despite a massive mind-wipe.

The Force can be used to create life, throw energy beams, fly, incinerate those who aren't pure of heart, see through time, turn invisible, teleport, and mimic a good WAAAAAAGH. It's absolutely overpowered and always has been. At least on this board, characters tend to specialize in one or two of the above to the exclusion of anything else, meaning that the most powerful masters on SWRP are actually less powerful than the ones in the Extended Universe. People are still arguing about whether Darth Bane actually pulled a moon out of orbit, because it's frighteningly plausible that he did - nothing like that happens here, really.

There's lots more that I'm sure [member="Ashin Varanin"] could go on at length about, but my hair is sticking up and turning yellow just looking this stuff up so I'll rest my case in that regard. While jumping around a ship's bridge, chopping off hands and pushing over droids with a grunt and gesture is very Star Wars, it isn't all there is to Star Wars. Star Wars loves DBZ nonsense, and the EU plays on an entirely different scale than the Shows and Movies.

On a player-to-player scale here on SWRP, that doesn't mean much. As you said, at any point, you have the power to walk away from an engagement you don't care for. While Darth Buttmunch may have written an awesome novel planning out every which way he's going to sabotage your company, ruin your name, and defeat you in single combat before actually enacting any of those plans, you have ability to reply with 'lol nope' and just leave. Ask [member="Enigma"] about that rule! Because it is a very, very effective one at stopping people from stomping all over you and dogpiling your stuff.

Yes, some people will always hold more power, authority and regard. Several of the pillars of this community came here from other boards, some of them have been putting in work to the same character for over a decade. Some have been contributing to the community since it's inception, serving as staff and managing factions. Others just simply wrote a disgusting amount of content, resulting in a character who's seemingly done everything, knows everyone, and can kill anything. I know of one guy who - and this a temporary suspension of hyperbole, because I'm still amazed to this day - write a full-length novel in a self-training thread, just because he could. This is a commendable, amazing thing, not anything to be derided.

Is it a bad thing that the people who contribute the most, have been around the most, and in most cases, help keep the Factory running for at least a portion of their time here, should retain a leg up? No. It is absolutely fair. At the end of the day, the real measure of a character on SWRP, and how far they'll go, is entirely in the hands of the Writer behind the keyboard. Polishing your own skills as a Roleplayer, putting in the time and effort to make a name for yourself, and existing harmoniously with everybody else is what makes a character powerful, because on SWRP, a character is only as powerful as the community allows them to be. Padawans need approval to become Knights, Knights need even more approval to become Masters, Masters can only do what the consensus decides is admissable. If some moron with bad writing, bad PVP manners, and no visible effort comes swooping in and decides to one-shot you, report him. If he's got a Master Tag somehow? Doesn't matter, report him. PM him and ask him to change it, maybe. Don't invite him to your tea parties, and watch him fade away or find a new sandcastle to try and kick over.

And then keep writing. It's as easy as that.

 

[Jsc]

TL;DR

 

[Ashin Varanin]

[member="Alna Merrill"] hit the nail on the head. The one part I don't entirely agree with is this:

Star Wars loves DBZ nonsense, and the EU plays on an entirely different scale than the Shows and Movies.

And here's why.

Let's look solely at top-tier canon for a moment: the films, and Clone Wars. A couple other things too, but since 'waaaaah I like my Star Wars pure and all the rest of you like a lesser and more inclusive Star Wars' is starting to grate on me, let's just stick with the films and the show. And let's talk about what this setting is.

Here are some examples of the scale of the Force, solely from those sources. I've fought dozens upon dozens of PVP engagements and I guarantee most of these examples would have had someone storming off and whining about Force gods and how NFUs and permanent Apprentices are the morally superior choice to play. I've had Ashin for a long time, done a lot of stuff with her as a protagonist, and as far as seniority and power go, I figure she's got a pretty decent claim to being somewhere near the top. This is stuff I probably or absolutely wouldn't have her do in any kind of competitive setting. But it's part of the universe, so I deal.

This is the scale of the Force, according to the highest level of canon. Spoilered for gifs.

Spoiler

Two absolutely elite NFUs. Takedown time: 0.5 seconds.

Three Force-using, invisible opponents at once, with his eyes closed. One of those invisible opponents is Ventress, who took down more Jedi Masters than just about anyone.

Ow.

And then there's...

Just about any Darksider who tried that on Chaos would be laughed at unless they'd put in a LOT of work.

So, let's talk about the flipside.

Here are some NFUs doing things. Writers of Master-level characters need to take other people's characters this seriously:

Spoiler

That's an NFU with rocket boots and multifunction gauntlets keeping up with, disarming, and electrocuting a fully armored elite Jedi Master.

...and fighting him sabre to sabre.

See also:

By this point I think it's pretty clear that I'm saying stop griping about how powerful the Force is. And I'm not talking primarily to Aaron. What I'm saying is if you play primarily NFUs, take your options more seriously. Work more, gripe less. And if you want to see change, level up some of your permanent Apprentices and then set the example of getting stomped by NFUs. That is how to put your money where your mouth is. This isn't zero-sum: Forcers can be insanely powerful and still beatable by NFUs. And if you know your EU, that principle actually increases the more broadly you cast your personal net of what's 'acceptable' or 'respectable' canon. I'm not even going to get into those examples, because I've spent too long on this already.

So here's two for the road.

Enough said?

 

[Mirus Hi'ija]

I think this problem goes both ways. Problems don't usually exist unless there are two contributors to the argument. It's a time-honoured tradition, one that both sides perpetrate. I feel it boils down to a single point:

Nobody likes losing.

We're all the protagonists in a shared universe; we all want to be the Yodas and the Hoths and the Rexes and the Vaders and the Sadows and the blah blah blah list etc you get it. So we like to do crazy, outrageous stuff because that's what we do. It's innate. It's inherent to the universe. And that's okay.

I feel that I have two things to say to each side, respectively:

Force-users: Remember that this is a shared Galaxy. Just because you can Force Repulse your new friend's whole stormtrooper squad and kill them all instantly and render him with no chance of winning doesn't mean you should. That's kind of a dick move. Faceless NPCs, sure, to an extent; the backdrop stormies, whatevs. As soon as it's this one guy's personal squad and the PC has referenced that NPC of his, his battle-buddy Private Anders by name, he is a little more plot-relevant. Have a little respect for it. But movie canon proves to us that while Yoda can throw two guys in a single move, Ki-Adi-Mundi, Aayla Secura and a dozen other Jedi Council members got killed by about six to eight guys. You're good, but not God. Play smart.

On some level, too, don't be totes crazy and go tech-insane. Unless that's your thing and you hate the Force, because the Force is living and tech is not - and Vader is proof as to how much tech reduces your insane Force power, so your reliance on tech should actually leave you under-powered in the Force. Leave mega-tech for the NFUs and let them feel special sometimes too.

Non-Force-users: Bro, you have options. I got a really nice compliment from someone I didn't expect this week because they liked one of my characters, played as a straight soldier, who fought with a damn heavy plasma cannon to fight FUs to a standstill. I got some warm fuzzies. It was great. Guess what? There's a million options you have. Being a NFU, with some good writing and a little work, that means you are to some extent able to go immediately toe-to-toe with a Master if you can work it. There are a million Factory open-market options available to you. You don't need to be a Jedi to have good reflexes. Take a handful of dudes and plan an ambush. Your squad dies? Whatever, man, bust out that force sword and duel that guy. Bring toys you like, use them well, and off you go. Hell, grab a shotgun with beskar rounds or a nerve gas projector or an electro-whip. Try new things that aren't just omg duel vibrokatanazzzz.

Also: whining unfortunately doesn't help your case in this instance because there is unfortunately too much against you. Instead, you have another tool at your disposal once you delve into the world of cool kit. Communicate. You have Skype and board PMs; use them. If you need something clarified, ask. Report things if you feel it's unfair but only after you talk to the person you're writing with.

I know I'm putting stock into good writing and personally I don't really ascribe to that theory, but here it's unfortunately true and it does need to be said. Most people know I loathe PvP here for a variety of reasons (I've had plenty of bad experiences with it, here and elsewhere) - but good writing will help you out.

Also, Wil Wheaton Rule One: Don't be a dick. That helps too.

 

[Khallesh]

And here I thought someone had put together a new readme for the site!

 

[Cassus Akovin]

I've said it before, I'll say it again:

I'm kakin' batman.

Genius Millionaire Playgirl Philanthropist

I'm coming for you OP force users.

I'm coming for you.

 

[Raziel]

Yes, some people will always hold more power, authority and regard. Several of the pillars of this community came here from other boards, some of them have been putting in work to the same character for over a decade.

2004? Pah http://comnet-v1.imperialnetwork.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000094-3.html

 

[Arumi Zy]

You know i rarely do big right ups or overtly respond to TLDRs, mostly because i don't care about peoples opinion and such but this nonsense of Masters being overpowered etc is getting old. Yes the force is an exceptionally powerful thing, able to rip SDs out of the sky, consume all the life force off a planet or to well you get the point. It sucks for NFUs it really does but it doesn't put you at a disadvantage unless your bloody lazy. If you want to beat a Master with just a hold out blaster you deserve what you get, theres a reason NFUs have tons of gadgets and stuff.

I have spent a decade writing Arumi Zy and i am going to say this i have pretty well earned what he is. I continued his training and development even when i was stationed in Iraq, through the good times and the bad times i have always written this character to the detriment of other characters who i find boring. Arumi has always been written as a character who has almost exclusively trained to fight and neglected learning the fancy force techniques to concentrate on saber combat. Don't get me wrong he is a master and has a competent grasp on the basics but his lightning more tingles then zaps, if you think for some reason you should be able to lock him up in one on one hand to hand combat and be able to have a fair shot your wrong. I am not saying that you can't win, or i am writing to win but you would be up against a character that has dedicated a thousand years to fighting. [member="Ashin Varanin"] can back me up i do not mind loosing but i will not loose to satisfy someones Epeen or to seem underpowered. I write him to be slightly over powered in his chosen field and much weaker in everything else.

Your characters are a culimantion of the work you have put into it, the effects other people have had on your character. If you have in your mind already your character should always be X and that other people shouldn't ruin your story and plans etc then you are writing in the wrong form. Seriously is FUs such a problem to NFUs they need to get up on their soap boxes?

 

[Miss Blonde]

[member="Alna Merrill"] [member="Ashin Varanin"]

I'll get you next time canon source materials! Next time!​

 

[Flannigan Mcnash]

Anyone can write in quantity, grinding is only a matter of time, from the non cannon source material are debatable at best, as some contradict others and blank events listed in X and Y, so it's a pick and drop situation. While NFUS can deal with force users, but there seems to be an entitlement issue. I put X amount of time into this character thus superiority over character Y, sure you can train and dare I say it earn some skill and notoriety, but have some restraint don't go throwing mountains at people just because you can.

I have spent a decade writing Arumi Zy

Now I'm using you as an example, I hold no ill will so you must excuse the following as best intentions.

So? I've spent time and exerted effort over characters before, long lived ones too just like you Arumi Zy, maybe four years off from your ten and on another RP format, but I don't think there's a line that one crosses to have their character mean more than another, sure you've put time and effort but what does that mean to another player, what do they owe to your time, maybe a clap at best. We're all here for our own selfish reason's, not me not you and not the guy above you are different. But we equal that out with everyone's selfish desires.

I don't care about peoples opinion

What can I say to that, other than that's like your opinion man.

community
noun

1. A group of people living in the same place or having a particular characteristic in common.
"Montreal's Italian community"

2. The condition of sharing or having certain attitudes and interests in common.
"the sense of community that organized religion can provide"

Text book definition of community, and we're the second being that we don't live together as far as I'm aware. We gotta work together to get those selfish desires done, to get that buzz that comes from that release of adrenaline and endorphins. And don't get me started on those cannon sources, there was only a handful of these forces gods at a time and NFUS that could stand up to them, we've got over a hundred members on SWRP, not everyone can be a Yoda or a Palpatine or even a Boba Fett.

 

[Asemir]

My take away from this thread, especially Ashin's gifs, is I need to go watch the Clone Wars saga.

 

[Corey's OOC]

Any love for the Force Master who are just terrible at everything?


...no?

 

[Solariel Eldara]

I'm just going to be a rebel and say that I didn't read 99.9% of this.

But personally, I enjoy losing. Nothing is more fun than losing a battle and having to run for your life and go into exile to stay alive.

This character, like Galadriel, would use her power sparingly, meaning it would be an extremely rare occasion that you'd ever see her use it. But in the unlikely event that she did use it, it would be under the most extreme circumstances, and it would likely unleash heaven, hell and all the powers in between. But it would also drain her to the point that she likely wouldn't be able to go to that extreme again for quite some time.

I have a Sith Master that I've been playing for the better part of 15 year (IRL time). Roughly ten years into her powers, I used her force powers to split a planet to the core. Overpowered and godlike? Yes, probably. But did anyone try to stop me? No. They all ran away and whined and cried in the OOC forums.

I agree that effort needs to be put in on both sides. Non-force users have a serious competitive advantage over force users. Do you know what that competitive advantage is? Most force users are cocky enough to underestimate your abilities.

This character is a Jedi Master. If a non-force user played his cards right, and I thought it was a well thought out, well played move, I'd gladly allow myself to be captured or seriously injured. To me that's more fun than completely dominating the stage.

But if you put little to no effort into your roleplaying context just because you think it's impossible to beat a Jedi Master then that's your fault and your problem. Non-force users literally exterminated the Jedi Order within minutes. It took three movies worth of planning by a Sith Master to carry it out.

If a role play took three months to plan, set up and execute, I guarantee they could do the same here.

Most of the people who play Masters have earned the right to have the powers that they wield over years, if not decades of development and role playing.


Less bitching, more roleplaying. If a Sith or Jedi isn't playing fairly then roll up your sleeves, bite your bottom lip and fight jut as dirty as they are.

 

[Flannigan Mcnash]

I'm just going to be a rebel and say that I didn't read 99.9% of this.

At-least you admit it, so that's something.

[member="Solariel Eldara"], what can I say, you've spent fifteen years on a single character. I commend you for your dedication, but what does that mean to me or the guy next to me or the one next to him, as I said previously anyone can write in quantity, grinding is only a matter of time and quantity isn't quality. Not that your character isn't or is quality, but what does it matter that you've had that character for years. I've spent time and exerted effort over characters before, long lived ones too just like your Sith, maybe nine years off from your fifteen and on another RP format, but I don't think there's a line that one crosses to have their character mean more than another, sure you can earn some skill and dare I say it notoriety, but have the decency not to throw mountains at people.

Now the planet thing, I don't know anything about it so I can't really comment on that, but I'll assume you had a bunch of Sith helping you with the ritual and Revans, mummified middle finger.

They all ran away and whined and cried in the OOC forums.

Woah, I think there's a bit more to that than simply that, two stories only hearing one. But I wasn't apart of it so what do I know.

Now this isn't anyone in particular, But-, as all terrible things start with ‘but’. “I’m not racist. But-”. So I say this with some sort of foresight as I say this, but alot of people are thrusting their characters into this as if it's an attack on their character, maybe there's some form of clarity or there using them as examples. Between this and the last thread you gotta admit there's a fair few 'examples'.

 

[Hailyn]

If the character matters to you, you deserve every last bit of what you're writing. Whether that's a romance, a broken one, being a power-hungry Sith Lord, Jedi hippy, it doesn't matter.

We're all here to write a story, so write one. This isn't a competition, and when it is, the story is still more important than that.

 

[Flannigan Mcnash]

[member="Lily Kirsche Kuhn"], I couldn't agree more the story comes first. But mind you this isn't like a book, it's non-linear and has an obscene amount of authors telling the story. And that the sad truth is, that we're a community for your sake I will tell you the definition SWRP, falls under. community, the condition of sharing or having certain attitudes and interests in common. And why is it sad that we're such a thing surly something like that is good, more people, expression, exchange of interest. We're an RP community with a timeline and continuity, excluding non-cannon every story affects another, it's not a lone island they're connected. From interactions between characters to other character talking about them, even to the most minuscule the number of people on the forums and activity may increase new joiners and or changes in design and layout.

I'd give you point, but these aren't unconnected stories in there own little universe, they're stories happening that will affect our character's, so this isn't your story mine or even the person on the next thread you visit. It's ours, and unless they're non-cannon the story affects us.

 

[Break]

[member="Ashin Varanin"] [member="Alna Merrill"] [member="Patricia Susan Garter"] [member="Arumi Zy"] [member="Flannigan Mcnash"]

So what I'm taking away from this is, yes your jedi CAN be powerful, and yes my bounty hunter can be powerful too. It doesn't matter what tag you have, how long you have had your character, or how I feel canon should play into how the fight goes.

The thing that matters is that I have fun, if I am not having fun I can leave the fight, to have change I must start the change and take my defeat with pride and my wins with dignity because it isn't my character that people will respect it's the person who is typing these long ass posts right?

Personally I always just mirror the amount of effort my opponents put into their posts and if I feel that they are godmoding I just leave the fight. If you feel like you wasted 4 hours on a small sized novel to oneshot my character well tough twonkees.

Thanks for the insight...now I'm thinking of ways to lose gracefully....

 

[Eddie]

"playing god is easy. Now playing human is where it gets difficult"

I don't write force gods, but I understand how hard it is to play human.

 

[Hailyn]

I'd give you point, but these aren't unconnected stories in there own little universe, they're stories happening that will affect our character's, so this isn't your story mine or even the person on the next thread you visit. It's ours, and unless they're non-cannon the story affects us.

If I choose to not acknowledge your character's actions across the galaxy (or am simply ignorant to them, as in unaware) my story is no more non-cannon than yours is. Just like we are not required to adhere to the events, or participate in them, we are not required to write our own stories as told by someone else (by that I mean we don't need to include every last person on the board). Every writer has the choice to not write with another character, including those people who storm into a thread with the ability to "destroy worlds". As it has been stated prior, even in cases like invasions it is your right to be able to neglect another post/character in its entirety.