Suggestion PvE Thread Change

[Darth Malum of House Marr]

An issue I think that is prevalent in Dominations, Populates, and maybe Junctions, is that factions are incentivised to stop posting once 30 posts are reached.

Now, people should not, but with a limited amount of time to expand within a month, it is in my opinion, undeniable that factions that engage in these kinds of threads, will want to give enough time for each thread to get off the ground, which incentivises the quick conclusion of each thread.

My proposal would be, that for every instance of a multiple of 30 being passed, the faction would be allowed to expand into another hex.

For example, in a domination in which 30 posts are reached, obviously a faction could claim a hex, however if it reaches 60, it could claim another, if it reaches 90, another.

Now this way, I believe that factions would be incentivised to finish the stories within a thread, without the pressure that it might be someway “wasteful”. While another incentive to be posting long stories, is always a bonus.

And since it’s not a reduced amount, it’s not as if a faction has any benefit in forcefully pushing a thread along, as if the story within a thread is finished, they could simply just begin another thread and still aim for 30, rather than trying to force it to another multiple of 30.

 

[Tefka]

People who make the conscious decision to change their font from default in something as basic as a suggestion thread are the absolute worst.

 

[Gerwald Lechner]

Darth Malum of House Marr

I see what you are saying, but if you look at the victory conditions for a dominion for example... they are:

Story, Representation, and effort.

30 posts is only 1/3 of the criteria. Many dominions with a large writing base can reach 30 posts and advance no story... why should even 1 hex be gained under that let alone 3...

Under the old rules it used to be live and die by post count... and we had to do 100 posts for just one. I personally like where things are now and feel it would be better to just focus on telling the story rather than get hung up on post count.

 

[Tefka]

i'm not reading his thread because he changed the font to be extra but your response looks great and non-combative good job Gerwald Lechner

 

[Darth Empyrean]

Gerwald Lechner

On the contrary, I have been bullied into nearly tying up my stories at 30 posts by multiple factions on numerous occasions, because they needed the story to look done for the judges. They were terrible dominions, they burned people out, and they generally sucked. I can't recall any of the stories told in most dominions because they are, as most know, almost secondary to that glorious arbitrary 30 number we've all decided on. If someone did the math, i would'nt be surprised at all if doms didn't have a mode of 30 to 32 posts.

I think making threads focused on fun and story, and letting people write in a single thread for as long as they please with the additional benefit of 30 posts per hex would be fine if not help encourage long form doms instead of the 4 30ish post threads most do.

There's not really anything this hurts, and I can only see it encouraging quality threads. I like it

 

[Mellifluous Magenta]

30 posts in and of itself is not reflective of the total amount of effort that it takes to complete a dominion/PvE thread. I've always thought that the act of making a dominion thread and generating a story for it is the hardest part of running a dominion, rather than getting the posts out. I have experience with making dominions when I was staff in the EE and generally, the 30 posts came automatically. I always just disappointed that the threads seemed to fizzle out after that and thought that it would be nice to have an additional motivation to keep things going.

So that said, I think that it should be like this:

• 30 posts to complete the dominion
• 40-45 additional posts (after the first 30) to submit the dominion for an 2nd hex
• 50-55 additional posts (after the first 70-75) to submit the dominion for an 3rd hex

So, that makes it possible to get 3 hexes out of 1 dominion, provided that the dominion reaches 120-130 posts.

 

[Darth Malum of House Marr]

Quintessa just beat me to the punch, but yeah realised after getting back from Uni a way to make this slightly better would be to make the number for the second, third, etc bigger.

Edit:

As for the point made by Dizzy, as far as I've been here, and granted I am not actively looking, I have never seen someone over at the mapping thread deny a dominion, populate, or junction on the basis of failing the story or representation merits.

And while I understand that in the olden days, pre-my time, things were even more difficult when it came to expansion regarding post counts, I do not believe that is inherently a reason to deny making a change like this.

 

[Gerwald Lechner]

Darth Empyrean

I understand because I’ve been there too… but those same factions at 50 has doms rejected because the story wasn’t there.

The point, and in a way you’re making it for me as well… is that focusing on post count is the wrong move here entirely.

Most stories focus on the hex… you add another hex how do you factor for the transportation in the story so it makes sense now? If you can pull it off awesome, but it certainly makes the mechanic more complicated now.

Mellifluous Magenta

Again this focuses only on post count. At one point when I was an MFO Tef tossed out doing away with post requirements entirely… but the Faction Owners WANTED to keep them. That’s the thing that gets me… here…

why are we so focused on a number when the story is the PRIMARY goal.

Darth Malum of House Marr

This is because role play judges stopped judging dominions. It’s become more automated and mechanical, which is sad. I would be all for getting rid of post requirements entirely but for some reason people need the benchmark.

 

[Tefka]

Things will change, sooner than you think, but not soon enough to make people in this thread happy, Dominions are boring, we hate them, I've known this for like the past two years.

 

[Valery Noble]

In GA it's not really a race to 30 and then drop it anymore. Recent Hapes dom got to about 100 and ongoing dom is going to hit 50 here soon. If you set up fun stories for them and don't create a culture where you push to move on from them with new threads as soon as you hit 30 posts, it definitely doesn't have to be that way.

Also, I understand the point Gerwald Lechner is trying to make, but not a single dominion reaching 30 posts has been denied in ages. I've been on faction staff for almost 2 years, which is comparatively short for some of you, but more than long enough for us to not feel like we need to get anything out of a dom beyond 30 posts when it comes to completion purposes.

I don't think gaining additional hexes out of doms is a solution to it all though. To me, it's about setting things up in a way that makes people want to complete their stories because it's fun to write. If your faction only writes more than bare minimum if it's directly rewarded, I personally feel that's the issue there.

That said, dominions will likely get changed, as Tefka mentioned, so I'm looking forward to seeing what will pop up instead. But either way, PvE faction stories will still exist to some extent, so keep your writers entertained.

 

[Srina Talon]

I was going to comment but it seems like a lot of what I was thinking has already been spoken, so, that's not a dead horse I'll beat. Thank you for taking the time to share your opinions and experiences though. Hearing perspectives can be a blessing even if we don't wind up being able to facilitate the request. It can help provide guidance down the way.

But yeah...

Things will change, sooner than you think, but not soon enough to make people in this thread happy, Dominions are boring, we hate them, I've known this for like the past two years.

This^^

 

[Gerwald Lechner]

Also, I understand the point Gerwald Lechner is trying to make, but not a single dominion reaching 30 posts has been denied in ages. I've been on faction staff for almost 2 years, which is comparatively short for some of you, but more than long enough for us to not feel like we need to get anything out of a dom beyond 30 posts when it comes to completion purposes.

30 posts has been the norm for as long as you’ve been faction staff and RPJ’s now Mods were not judging doms during you’re tenure.

Empyrean was here for it as others here were. Just because you haven’t seen it happen doesn’t mean it couldn’t or wouldn’t.

Now that post count isn’t a thing let’s see story take the spotlight.

 

[Tefka]

Now that post count isn’t a thing let’s see story take the spotlight.

i just spit water all over my monitor

 

[Valery Noble]

30 posts has been the norm for as long as you’ve been faction staff and RPJ’s now Mods were not judging doms during you’re tenure.

Empyrean was here for it as others here were. Just because you haven’t seen it happen doesn’t mean it couldn’t or wouldn’t.

Now that post count isn’t a thing let’s see story take the spotlight.

Nah if you don't deny a single dom in 2 years, it wasn't being reviewed anymore for quality. It was very much just a numbers thing.

But I agree on the last sentence.

 

[Gerwald Lechner]

Valery Noble

Which was my point… despite 3 areas of criteria many were focused on a mechanism like post count

Tefka

I can hope. My gut says post count will have to be implemented again when the inevitable person argues 3 posts is effort

 

[Tefka]

Nah if you don't deny a single dom in 2 years,

i mean you're not wrong lmao

Even when asked, they don't judge. But I think that was what he was saying.

 

[Srina Talon]

They haven't been "reviewed for quality" in years on purpose. We stopped nitpicking and holding back Dominions for arbitrary reasons in the same manner that we stopped nitpicking the crap out of Factory/Codex. It was my understanding that 30 was supposed to be a benchmark because within 30 posts a satisfactory story could be reached. That's why it used to say (before this update) that "less" could be accepted if the story was solid.

So if a Faction posted a Dom w/Thirty Posts of: I am L33T or it was just one writer writing to themselves we'd call it. It's meant to be a collaborative effort and that's really not it.

The fact that we haven't had to do that means you guys were doing a good job. Not a numbers game.

So, it makes sense to remove it to me... And everyone can keep on keeping on.

 

[Tefka]

Not a numbers game.

you staffers literally need to stop saying this lmfao it literally is a numbers game

otherwise why even have the number

 

[Srina Talon]

Whelp it's gone now lol

 

[Tefka]

Whelp it's gone now lol

no ur gone now say ur last goodbye heathen