Precognition Think-Tank.

[Orphen]

Just been having a couple of thoughts about how to use battle precognition in combat with PC's and what would be acceptable and what would not be acceptable in the scope of combat. I had a couple of thoughts on interesting ways to do it. But of course, I thought that the whole 'I saw that coming' response would be very frowned upon. So, I wanted to bring this question to others and wonder.

If an opponent you were using was a master of Battle Precognition, as their opponent, what do you think would be an appropriate use of the skill..

Here are some of the ideas that I had.

• Visions: Write a vision into each post which is a hypothetical event from a possible time line. Or one at the beginning of the thread. Then, if your opponent completes or simulates that attack, you have the means to fully avoid it, as you can say you knew it was coming (of course assuming that you have the ability to evade it.) This adds a prediction element into the mix which your opponent can avoid, though they would realistically have no way to know what your vision would be.
  
• Other Self: This is the one I was thinking of using, the idea is that i describe another version of my character overlapping me, and that 'phantom' is my character in another time line, other users of precognition would be able to see the 'phantom' there. The idea would be that interactions with the 'phantom me' would be able to be seen before they happen and could be made to come to pass or avoided. Ie. The 'phantom me' would take a swing at you high while the 'real me' takes a swing low. If you jumped and took the hit from the 'phantom me,' its kinda saying that, that strike is 'destined' to happen at some point soon. But of course, time isn't certain, so it could be avoided.

Would like to know people's thoughts.

On each of these two ideas, as well as others.

 

[Gray Raxis]

[member="Orphen"]

Personally I think it is best to avoid it altogether, not just in your case but in all cases of it. I have always found that precognition for combat is a little convenient and mostly an easy out for most writers to get away with making their character a badass. It is always poorly executed, because there is no real right way to do it. Combat is very fast paced and demands focus from those partaking in it. The precognition would end up costing the one using it time they would need to dodge an attack, and that is assuming the attacks are even able to be dodged to begin with.

Now it can work for not getting caught in something like an ambush or being sniped by someone, but the moment combat starts I think it would be kind of worthless for the earlier stated reasons. Another way it could be used would be for having a vision of a particular tactic the enemy might use, but more of just giving you an idea rather than exact knowledge.

I'm not talking about you here, just in case you might have thought I was. I'm just ranting because pre-cognition always turns into a cop out for writers for fights to go their way and in RPs always just becomes a form of god moding in my personal experience. I think if you used it to realize an ambush or dodge a sniper shot or something that is meant to be a surprise attack is fine. Just don't use it when fully engaged in combat. That would be taking it too far in my book.

 

[Orphen]

[member="Gray Raxis"]

I mean, okay, that's one way to look at it. But I kinda refuse to think that something is just not usable. When you get into a matter of time it becomes really annoying but its definitely not something that just can't be fair.

Another thought I had, is have it be something that is an activated maintained ability, like that of speed or strength or something and use in the style of seeing things in a constant state of like, one or two seconds in the future. That way you can only avoid everything as if you had a second or two's notice. And wide hitting things like force storm would not be something easily avoidable.

The point with battle precognition is that it's meant to be effective enough to be able to use in combat, rather than forcing a premonition. One of the reasons Echani devlop Battle sight. But i agree, it's often used as a massive cop-out, and the point of this is to discover a means of using it that is not a cop-out or silly deus ex machina. Because precognition is a huge part of being a force user, and, in most cases, is something passively attained through knowledge and mastery of the force.

 

[Gray Raxis]

[member="Orphen"]

Well it sounds like what you are aiming for is enhanced reflects and reaction times. That is not pre-cognition, which is a psychic ability centered around predicting possible outcomes. The issue I have with your proposed method is it would mean your character is pretty much living 1-2 seconds ahead of what is actually going on. He might be able to adapt to this after a very long period of time, but he runs the issue of constantly messing up his own predictions by trying to make a chance to them before they happen. Then you get into the whole time paradox thing, and it all just gets incredibly messy.

As I said, its just not something that can be easily balanced around. Even the idea of pre-cognition in battle is kind of bad in my opinion in terms of usefulness. Pre-cognition generally is very vague and forces the one subject to it's focus away from everything else going on around them and onto the vision they are seeing. This is deadly in combat and will just get you killed. The other thing is that all predictions from pre-cognition are fluid and not set in stone. You see a possible outcome and not the actual outcome you get. It is great for situations were you have a little time to understand them, but like I said before, combat doesn't give you time. That is why soldiers, fighters, warriors, etc spend so much time training themselves. They are aiming for muscle memory and enhancing their reflect/reaction times so that they don't exactly have to think in combat. The less you have to think on your own actions in a fight, the easier it is to react to your opponents.

 

[Julius Sedaire]

I use it pretty much like spidey-sense that Spiderman has from the Marvel Comics. It's not clear, it's not precise... Any form of precognition below that of the Apex level where that is the bulk of your power, to the neglect of other things, shouldn't even approach clarity. I never have nor will think battle-precognitive abilities are visions, or any of the things mentioned here. They lead to the issues Gray brought up.

For me? It's a warning system. Nothing more or less. The more skilled in the ability you are, the quicker you can react to it, the sooner the spidey-sense 'tingles' (giving you more time to react), and the better idea you have of what direction the danger is coming. A master of battle-precog might know a few seconds before the trigger is pulled on a gun, or a decision is made to swing a melee weapon. He might not no when, who, but he would almost certainly know a very precise direction the danger is coming from, and roughly how soon it is coming to him. I suppose if the assailant were inside a building, he might know that too.

However? Actually avoiding it? That's another thing entirely. Knowing it and moving take time, thought, etc... In order to react how most portray themselves acting out Battle Precog, in my opinion, you'd need a set of abilities to fully support and enhance it to a level where it retains combat functionality. And the rest of your powers should, in my opinion, suffer in development/honing. For instance, Julius is pretty talented at Battle Precog. One of, if not the best, of his abilities. But I have a cache that supports that.

Obviously, one of his focal points is Battle Precognition...Which he uses like a Spidey-Sense. He has a moderate skill in Empathy, which allows him to detect specific emotions and ascribe 'intent' to actions, particularly those targeted at himself... I.E. except in very large scale battles, and with focus even then, he can tell when someone means him harm by their shifting emotions. Or other things, like a shift/boost in confidence could indicate them preparing a cous de grace, and it might be a good time to get his guard up.. The third key of this ability is his budding skill with Instinctive Astrogation, which he developed by listening to a class from [member="Jorus Merrill"] ...

Now I know all of you are thinking 'BUT ASTRO IS USED FOR NAVIGATING'... And yes, yes it is... But as Jorus said himself, Mara uses it to navigate mazes, Obi-Wan used it to be able to step just right and avoid blaster bolts like a ballerina... And Julius uses it much like Obi-Wan. Using his gut instinct coupled with the empath and battle-precog to avoid the blows. Now, the other skill in this 'Early Warning Detection System' is/will be Shatterpoint which he will use as a way to figure out when the enemy is lax, or their are weak points. More of a counter-weight to the Battle Pre-Cog really. But in a large pitched battle it would be able to help him find the moments where the tide will turn or such to focus on. Not sure I will ever utilize the Alter/Physical aspect of wrecking armor by tapping on it.

And of course, none of this would matter much if he can't respond quick enough so Force Speed/Reaction is one of his chief most and most utilized abilities. The others listed are really the supporters to Speed and Battle Pre-Cog, honestly. Along with skill in Lightsaber Combat... And whilst it seems like a lot, Julius can barely function telekinetic abilities at the level of most middling Padawans, if that. Like, legit some Agri-Corps members might be better at TK than him. And other than the lone ability of Force Punch, he doesn't do much Alter outside of Speed that is much better than a Padawan. And even whenever he becomes a Master, that will likely remain the case. Most of the abilities listed will be strong at the Knight level, maybe a weak Master, but nothing more. Compared to a lot of others? That's hardly worth mentioning.

The key to using Pre-Cog, battle or not, is the same as the key to any PVP, or writing in general: Don't be a dick

Really, it's that simple, and totally renders my entire rant pointless...

 

[Jsc]

[member="Orphen"]

The trick is not being skilled or remarkably proficient. The trick is taking damage.

During a duel you're expected to take damage. You're expected to respect your opponent's strengths. You're expected to get as good as you give. So... Maybe your asking the wrong question. I mean. I would ask the question: How does one be Neo from the Matrix whilst still taking real damage? And I'd answer that: Dude. It doesn't matter. Dodge the bullet, eat the debris. Block the strike, eat the kinetic force. Move from one bullet and into the next. Dodge the kick, eat the mind trick. Notice every strike and parry, but forget your standing on thin ice. Crack. Break. Now you're swimming with the fishes. Burrr.

Being ridiculously powerful as a Force Adept is the easy easy easy part. However. Being creative enough to think of ways to eat damage? Nah. That's the fun part. So I'd say. Be strong. Be very very strong. Then? Eat a trainwreck and let it smash you. After all, we can always do it better.

 

[Asemir]

[member="Jay Scott Clark"]

I'm going to have to agree with JSC here. (May I call you JSC?)

What also makes it challenging is squashing your own ego to accommodate others, and this becomes more challenging the more powerful your own character becomes. For example, in a typical duel, it does not make sense IC for Asemir to take any damage, especially from non-Master level opponents. He's just that good at bladework. However, for the sake of OOC politeness, I have to tone down his dueling and martial ability. And that is challenging because it means suppressing my own ego, my own goals, for the greater good of the thread.

Man, that sounds way too much like marriage advice.

Anyways, to answer your question, I've always RPed Asemir's limited precognition as a "Spider Sense", as [member="Julius Sedaire"] pointed out. It's just easier that way and fits the IC characterization better. If you're referring to full blown precognition, then, that's a challenge to write. Your posts are going to be long winded (which is fine) as you describe the scene flashing before the character's eyes.

[member="Orphen"]

 

[Orphen]

[member="Asemir Lor'kora"]

I'm not worried about thee damage taking damage dealing aspects so much, I know my character and I know my limitations so, if he has the reason to take the hit he'll take the hit. But that's good general advice. Though oddly enough, if I am fighting someone much higher level than me, it actually Irks me if they give me too much credit and it doesn't make sense to do so. But that's just me.

The problem with the 'spider sense' option is, to me, that really does fall into that whole: "I saw it coming so i dive to the left" cop-out point. It creates the idea that it can be used against any attack or sequence, while, if you set something in stone, like, maintainable 1 second future sight. There is counter-play to it, it can be thought around and fought against.

[member="Jay Scott Clark"]
Note to some of what i said before, and while your right, it is about giving credit where credit is due and abusing the power to make yourself some kinda god thing. But I think you mistake the point, the idea is to mull about writing conventions or possible uses of precognition which people would be more happy fighting against in theory. And which ones you use... if any.

[member="Julius Sedaire"]
I completely agree, the best thing that you can do is just not be an nerf herder. But, there are instances where you and a person you are writing against are having an honest bout to see who can actually win. Where each of you are trying to actively win and are competing against one another. It's at that point (usually) when you end up pulling all the stops and precognition has always been one of those big taboo's if you rely on it a lot.

Heaven forbid a person who uses/ masters Darksight.

xD

*cough* myvillain *cough*

 

[Jsc]

...the idea is to mull about writing conventions or possible uses of precognition which people would be (more happy) fighting against (in theory). And which ones you use... if any.

There is no accounting for taste. Cheers.

 

[Gray Raxis]

[member="Jay Scott Clark"]

I swear every time I see your profile picture I have to laugh. Why must you torment me so?

[member="Orphen"]

I think you are holding out a little too much to the idea of doing it differently. So far everyone has been saying roughly the same thing.

 

[Jsc]

...Why must you torment me so?

BECAUSE I AM THE DEVIL! MUGHAHAHA!

*ahem*

Oops sorry. Caps Lock got stuck again. Damn this tiny phone keyboard. Ya know, God got me a new one for Hell's birthday a few year back. Ugh. And my fat red fingers just can't seem to cope. Just, the worst. 4srz.

#FirstWorldProblems​

#666&AppleProducts​

#TypingWithMaTail​

 

[Julius Sedaire]

[member="Orphen"] - Any power, ability, or trait can be used to God-mod. Any of them. Don't care what it is. There is no way out except the caveat I posted above. Doesn't matter. Your idea of visions? That can still be abused. You are balancing it by not being a dick in giving them uncertainity and reaction time. Same thing with how some of us do the 'spidey-sense' style. It's not always on time, clear enough to be able to avoid, or a host of other things.