Please drop Rule 14 of the General Factory Submission Guidelines

[Jsc]

"14. All submissions should reflect the strengths and weaknesses of their materials and components for transparency, balance, and fair play." - Factory Standardized Rules


As a suggestion. Strengths and Weaknesses in the factory need not be mandatory. Nor may it even add anything valuable to submission at all under certain circumstances. Examples include submissions like this one and this one which make an absolute joke out of having Strengths and Weaknesses be mandatory. Neither of which required mandatory Strengths and Weaknesses to better provide transparency, balance, or infringement upon fair play.

Rather. Let's just drop this specific rule and let Rule 4 of the Standardized Codex and Factory Rules take overriding precedence at the discretion of the Factory Judge involved. Which reads,

"4. The entire template must be used in your submission. If you have nothing to add for a certain section, simply put ‘N/A" - Codex and Factory Standardized Rules


In this way I believe we can avoid the often useless lack of context, circumstantial biases, and time wasting application that is, mandatory Strengths and Weaknesses.

To note. They can, and probably should, stay on the template. However. Marking these sections N/A should be reasonable when they do not apply at all. See the subs above for more info.

 

[Cira]

Thank you for your suggestion. The factory staff will take your recommendation into consideration.

 

[Krayzen Dratos]

Maybe remove the strengths and weaknesses for some things in the submission(like the examples you provided), while keeping them for others could be another alternative explored.

 

[Natasi Fortan]

I like strengths and weaknesses. I think the submissions you provided aren't indicative of the need to remove strengths and weaknesses, I think it's indicative of a need to flat-out deny submissions and discourage submissions that are clearly wastes of time.

 

[Jsc]

I think it's indicative of a need to flat-out deny submissions and discourage submissions that are clearly wastes of time.

Sure. But submissions can already be denied on intent alone. And if the moderating Judge decides that "To make a Hyperspace Motivator that runs on Unicorn Poop," is okay by way of intent? Then heck. Who's to stop him and say that Unicorn Poop doesn't need to have it's Strengths and Weaknesses listed too.

Mind. Blown. I know.

 

[James Justice]

Or we could tweak it to what I think would be more fair for every strength there must be a weakness.

Just my 2.49 cents.

 

[Natasi Fortan]

I would say that it's up to the judge to decide to allow their time to be wasted I still think that there should be strengths and weaknesses involved, handle, coleslaw, or unicorn poop hyperspace motivator. In a world where PVP on the board is roughly 82% factory links, it's helpful to have some stipulated weaknesses.

 

[Jsc]

[member="James Justice"] - Just by way invitation. Apply that to the examples I gave above. ...Mmm. Yeahhh. Love ya man. But Str and Weaknesses do not apply 100% of the time. Nor should they. Thusly, neither should that specific rule apply 100% of the time. I figure let's let the Factory Judges apply their discretion and let it go left as N/A, more often than not. Rule 4 is all we ever needed.

[member="Natasi Fortan"] - If only 82% of factory links are deemed to require this helpful feature then why are they mandatory on 100% of subs? Shouldn't they then be given by way of invitation rather than by necessity. Just seems like a 18% waste of time to me.

 

[Netherworld]

No specific examples off the top of my head and I'm not about to go scour the Factory for them, but I'm 95% certain there's been submissions where the weaknesses/strengths were simply: "nothing out of the ordinary".
If you're subbing something as banal a handle (for whatever reason, who cares), no reasonable judge is gonna get on your case for it. It's average.

I'm also pretty sure that most things that are submitted to the Factory are submitted because they are not, in fact, ordinary, and therefore have a use in the weaknesses/strengths field.

tl;dr things that don't need strengths/weaknesses don't/rarely need submitting.

 

[Jsc]

tl;dr things that don't need strengths/weaknesses don't/rarely need submitting.

Sure. But this isn't enforced. The Factory rules are.

It's why I'm suggesting to change the Factory rules. Not PMing half of the writers on this website who sub strange things and going,

See what I'm saying? This is discussion not on the helpfulness of strengths and weaknesses in a vacuum. It's a discussion about the Factory Rules as they apply to 100% of submissions.

Yes. Str&Wek are helpful. Yes. We want them to help use judges the merits of a submission. No. We don't need them to apply to 100% of submissions. <-- That's all I'm saying.

 

[Natasi Fortan]

[member="James Justice"] - Just by way invitation. Apply that to the examples I gave above. ...Mmm. Yeahhh. Love ya man. But Str and Weaknesses do not apply 100% of the time. Nor should they. Thusly, neither should that specific rule apply 100% of the time. I figure let's let the Factory Judges apply their discretion and let it go left as N/A, more often than not. Rule 4 is all we ever needed.

[member="Natasi Fortan"] - If only 82% of factory links are deemed to require this helpful feature then why are they mandatory on 100% of subs? Shouldn't they then be given by way of invitation rather than by necessity. Just seems like a 18% waste of time to me.

To quote a wise (and attractive) woman: What the hell, JSC?

I said PVP is 82% factory links, not that only 82% of factory subs require it. My contention is that 100% should require it.

MATH, BRUH.

 

[Jsc]

[member="Natasi Fortan"] - Oh... My bad. I guess I can't math today. Damn. I wondered why you might say that anyway. Meh. That's what I get for trying to sound smart. Shoot.

Also. First things first. We need to resolve this quickly. Who is this woman and where can I get her number?

 

[Kamon Vondiranach]

A submission without strengths and weaknesses is nothing but useless junk. Every submission has strengths and weaknesses and they should be clearly defined. Especially since strengths are the inherent good points of a submission.

 

[Jsc]

A submission without strengths and weaknesses is nothing but useless junk.

This is simply not true. Not only that. But it certainly not a reason to create or enforce rules in the Factory. Jebus Ignus.

 

[Kamon Vondiranach]

Everything ever made has had strengths to it, and weaknesses. Even the apple. It's food which provides nourishment, but it's attractive to worms and rots if not eaten in a timely manner. EVERYTHING has strengths and weaknesses. Removing that section from the submission serves no purpose other than to remove people's chance to ponder the point of their submission, what it can do for them, and how it can be adversely affected, both of which have merit in an items usage. Knowing it's strengths is just as important as knowing its weaknesses.

 

[Jsc]

Removing that section from the submission

We are not talking about removing it from the template Ignus.

We are talking about removing Rule 14.

 

[Kamon Vondiranach]

Removing rule #14 would be the same as removing them from the submission. Strengths and weaknesses are necessary and the submission template only requires 1 of each. You're trying, here, to make a workaround to not using the weaknesses and strengths section at the discretion of the judge. I would ask why that's necessary? Anyone can think of one strength and one weakness for a submission no matter how mundane the submission is. Why do you need to remove the rule?

 

[Jsc]

Removing rule #14 would be the same as removing them from the submission.

Literally. No.

Strengths and weaknesses are necessary

Look at the subs I used as examples. La' nope.

to make a workaround

I am trying to save us all time and sanity.

Why do you need to remove the rule?

Because of everything I said in the first post. ...Ignus. Ignus. Work with me. Work with me buddy.

 

[Jsc]

As an aside, regarding Strengths and Weaknesses, I think mandating those are pretty limiting and annoying. I understand why they are required, but they don't actually mean anything or have any equivalence to "Real Life". Does the Homo sapien race have any strengths and weaknesses? No, it really only has characteristics. "Vulnerability to fire" is not a weakness; it is a characteristic. "Unable to breathe ammonia-rich atmosphere" is not a weakness; it is a characteristic of having a pH stability based on water. You can't evaluate strengths and weaknesses in a vacuum. Any strength and weakness has to exist within context of something else. The same inability to breathe ammonia vapor can act as a weakness in one context but a strength in another. That's why I feel listing strengths/weaknesses is really.... odd.

QFT

However. Even as I submit this here for introspection I would like to add that all of our Factory Judges are pretty good at catching these. Most subs that start out with silly strengths and biased weaknesses are quickly noticed and reworked during the submission process.

 

[Kamon Vondiranach]

How can I work with you when all I see is you trying to make it so people don't have to exhibit weaknesses for their submissions?

I'm not going to get into those submissions because it would likely result in hurt feelings.