New Restricted Materials proposal

[Cira]

I'd normally pop this down in Factory, but since it deals with restricted materials, adding it here.

I'm in the process of consolidating all the factory rules, announcements, and such that I can find in the factory, be they template, standards of development, and such.

6. Submissions & development threads should adhere to the established standards of development.

This is currently in every Factory template as a rule as items that one can expect having to do a dev thread on.

My factory staff ( [member="Raziel"], [member="Jamie Pyne"], [member="Braith Achlys"] ) have discussed that since a Personal Cloaking Device is in the Restricted Materials, then maybe we should add the following in there with relevant quests since we ask for dev anyways.

• Powerarmor ( Maybe a contract mission where the armor is ordered, crafted, etc with another PC company)
• Holocrons ( Not including personal holocrons). ( Some sort of mission with one other writer to discover said holocron?)
• Any Force nullification items without reasonable weaknesses. ( Not sure)

Thoughts?

 

[Cira]

Note, these development standards are already in effect and development is expected for such. I was just thinking of standardizing them in the restricted materials for ease of convienence and visibility.

 

[Vixley CM-01]

[member="Cira"]

Force is a big focus in Star Wars... Giving everyone force nullifying items without work nulls and voids all that Force Users work they did for their rank.

I agree dev work

 

[Raziel]

If an item of technology always requires development it should be on the restricted materials and technology list for simplicity.

 

[Garett Van]

I agree with [member="Raziel"]

 

[Julius Sedaire]

[member="Cira"] -

Power Armor I can see. But let's not make it some inane pre-set challenge. There's nothing that would add anything to it by making it thus. Add it to the RM list, but just give it a static number of development posts, or X posts per Y times of strength and/or speed amplification. If we want to restrict it, make it so the dev needs to be about testing or creation of it. But the challenges are honestly pretty silly and don't add much to the use or Factory, and to me are the #1 reason I hear of people not using RM, because the challenge is too difficult (songsteel) or annoying (ultrachrome) or some such. I'd rather see us move away from that, if we are to make the Factory more accessible by things like the incoming Cookie Cutters and Guides.

As far as Force-nullifying items, it's not a bad idea to add them. The problem is, there is a ton of ways to nullify the Force. Lining it or setting Taozin nodules. Nullification resin. Voidstone. The list goes on. And some of it doesn't nullify it, but blurs or disperses or other 'dulls' the Force signature. So where would we draw the line, and how do we do so fairly?

Holocrons I am firmly against having any sort of universal or standardized dev/challenge. In any form. I could see, like Power-Armor, a static number of posts. But a specific, pre-determined quest/challenge is, in my feeling, extremely off-putting. We want people to want to go after these things and use the Factory. Not, as they tell me now, go 'Ugh, I want X, but the challenge is so frustrating/boring/difficult for me I wont bother'.

Personally? I'd like to see less 'challenges' that are so off the wall, and more 'X posts revolving around creation/testing/finding of Y' or some such. The RM challenges as they stand now are a bit silly, off-putting, and really don't make much sense and force sometimes out of character actions or stories to take place just for a Factory sub, and that is not what we should be after, imho.

 

[Quietus]

I have thoughts on this but I'm too tired to share them tonight. I'll try and get something in here tomorrow or Thursday.

 

[Jairus Starvald]

I have thoughts on this, but I am unable to accurately voice them at this point in time. I shall attempt this again tomorrow.

But a short summary would be, let's not overcrowd the RM list without a reason.

We are reactive, not proactive.

 

[Raziel]

I have thoughts on this but I'm too tired to share them tonight. I'll try and get something in here tomorrow or Thursday.

I have thoughts on this, but I am unable to accurately voice them at this point in time. I shall attempt this again tomorrow.

But a short summary would be, let's not overcrowd the RM list without a reason.

We are reactive, not proactive.

Best posts on Chaos ever.

I stand by my original position that if we have items we always require development for, they must go on the RM list. They can have a more natural challenge as well as something fun. (They shouldn't ever be tedious).

If you want to argue against them being on the list, I think you need to argue against them requiring development.

 

[Raziel]

Holocrons (Not including personal holocrons) (( Objective: With one other writer embark on a quest to discover and obtain a holocron – minimum 20 posts))

Power Armour ((Objective: Write a story about the development or discovery of the power armour (minimum 10 posts for Unique) –OR—defeat another Player Character in a fight with your character being unarmed))

 

[Jairus Starvald]

I am honestly fine with arguing that power armor shouldn't standard have development attached to it. As long as the armor is balanced and does not move past canon-level of capabilities, I think it's fine to just pass it through.

That being said the objective itself is pretty good, if we decide to move into that direction.

[member="Raziel"]

 

[Cira]

Holocrons (Not including personal holocrons) (( Objective: With one other writer embark on a quest to discover and obtain a holocron – minimum 20 posts))

Power Armour ((Objective: Write a story about the development or discovery of the power armour (minimum 10 posts for Unique) –OR—defeat another Player Character in a fight with your character being unarmed))

I am okay with this.

 

[Quietus]

Best posts on Chaos ever.

I stand by my original position that if we have items we always require development for, they must go on the RM list. They can have a more natural challenge as well as something fun. (They shouldn't ever be tedious).

If you want to argue against them being on the list, I think you need to argue against them requiring development.

Not a valid argument.

Company tier advancements require dev. All the time.
Ships over 1000km require dev. All the time.
A medium or larger force nexus requires dev. All the time.
An A quality NPC unit requires dev. All the time.

Holocrons (Not including personal holocrons) (( Objective: With one other writer embark on a quest to discover and obtain a holocron – minimum 20 posts))

Power Armour ((Objective: Write a story about the development or discovery of the power armour (minimum 10 posts for Unique) –OR—defeat another Player Character in a fight with your character being unarmed))

On Holocrons: why? Any holocron that someone is going to discover or obtain of any worth without it being a personal holocron is going to 99% of the time end up being a canon artifact. Canon artifacts already require dev threads to obtain and factory submissions so this is covered in that area. For personal holocrons: why wouldn't they be included? Personal holocrons tend to be the ones with the most obnoxious stuff in it, though it's not always the case. Besides, holocrons actually see very little use in RP aside from their value to bargain with and their initial discovery thread. There aren't actually that many diehard people running around utilizing holocrons to their OP benefit. I'm part of the small group that actually uses holocrons in rps fairly regularly because I write an Archivist that studies them. Why am I suddenly being forced to bring someone along in order to submit a holocron? What if I'm not discovering one, but creating one? Holocron creation is largely a one-person job. How many holocrons have been reported for being OP? Or reported for misuse in a thread? IMO holocrons should be handled on case-by-case basis.

Power armor: I'm not going to talk much on this only because it's not my niche. Though I would think most Power armor would be treated like a ship. If it's balanced for S/W, why does it necessarily need dev? Legitimate question since this is out of my purview. Educate me. <3

Force nullifying stuff: I wouldn't. Like mentioned above this is a very complicated topic to dissect because of the huge range of things one can use for this and not all of them should be treated the same because not all of them do the same thing. If you're using a Force Nullifying agent in a submission, you're probably making an alchemized thing. Most alchemized things fall in the category of OP and require dev, but again I would think this should be handled on a case-by-case basis, unless you wanted to go the route for alchemized creations to standardize dev there - but that would be more ideal, I think. Similar to what I intend to do with Alchemized creatures.

 

[Raziel]

Factory and Codex Judge Code of Conduct for reference:
5. Understand that your job is to help the member improve the quality of the submission and the balance of the submission within an IC environment.

6. Only ask for development threads if the submission is severely overpowered or an item located within the submission is found on the Restricted Items List. If the item is severely overpowered, determine why and see if the reason it is overpowered can be added to the Restricted Item list by following Rule #7.

Both Codex Judges and Factory Judges are held to the standard that if an item is overpowered and requires development it shall be determined if it can be added to the Restricted Materials list.

If a piece of technology always requires development due to being overpowered it should be moved onto the restricted list as it is more clear for members which items need development.

The ships one is an interesting question, one I've brought up in the factory. The same applies to power armour in a way. If it's decided it needs development should it go in the armour template or the restricted materials and tech templates? I don't think there is a right answer, just a consistent one.




That said, onto the discussion on whether these specific items should always require development and therefore be considered for the RM list:

That said I think the argument against holocrons going in there is actually a good one.

Power armour to me is very much on the fringe of star wars technology. It's almost something I want there just so we don't see power armoured soldiers everywhere. Counter argument is that you can always use a Gen'dai or droid character without development.



I think on balance I'd like to see power armour go on there, but maybe holocrons don't need to. Force nullification is too broad at the moment.

 

[Quietus]

Perhaps I am pulling from old ghost rules but I was always under the impression that power armor equated to mecha and that mecha were not allowed because it wasn't SW?

 

[Cira]

Perhaps I am pulling from old ghost rules but I was always under the impression that power armor equated to mecha and that mecha were not allowed because it wasn't SW?

Mechas are not Power armor.

A powersuit, also called power armor, was a type of personal armor that protected an individual from the elements. Powersuits were used by a variety of organizations ranging from militaries to independent explorers. Some powersuits were built to increase the wearer's strength and agility while others served to protect the wearer from blaster bolts. Many companies produced a variety of powersuits with the most popular being Nova-Tech, Corellian Engineering Corporation, and Telgorn Corporation.

Mechas
The word "mecha" (メカ meka?) is an abbreviation first used in Japanese of the word "mechanical". In Japanese, mecha encompasses all mechanical objects, including cars, guns, computers, and other devices, and the term "robot" (ロボット robotto?) or "giant robot" to distinguish limbed vehicles from other mechanical devices.[1] Outside of this usage, it has become associated with large robots with limbs or other biological characteristics.

While the distinction is often hazy, mecha typically does not refer to form-fitting powered armor such as Iron Man's suit. They are usually much larger than the wearer, like Iron Man's enemy the Iron Monger, and possess a cockpit from which they are operated.
In most fiction in which they appear, mecha are fighting machines, whose appeal comes from the combination of potent weaponry with a more stylish combat style than a mere vehicle. Often, they are the primary means of combat, with conflicts sometimes being decided through gladiatorial matches. Other works represent mecha as one component of an integrated military force, supported by and fighting alongside tanks, fighter aircraft, and infantry, functioning as a mechanical cavalry. The applications often highlight the theoretical usefulness of such a device, combining a tank's resilience and firepower with infantry's ability to cross unstable terrain and a high degree of customization. In some continuities, special scenarios are constructed to make mecha more viable than current-day status. For example, in Gundam the fictional Minovsky particle inhibits the use of radar, making long-range ballistic strikes impractical, thus favouring relatively close range warfare of Mobile Suits.

However, some stories, such as the manga/anime series Patlabor and the American wargame BattleTech universe, also encompass mecha used for civilian purposes such as heavy construction work, police functions or firefighting. Mecha also see roles as transporters, recreation, advanced hazmat suits and other R and D applications.

Mecha have been used in fantasy settings, for example in the anime series Aura Battler Dunbine, The Vision of Escaflowne, Panzer World Galient and Maze. In those cases, the mecha designs are usually based on some alternative or 'lost' science-fiction technology from ancient times. In case of anime series Zoids, the machines resemble dinosaurs and animals, and have been shown to evolve from native metallic organisms.

 

[Quietus]

That makes more sense!

 

[Julius Sedaire]

Maybe a compromise? Power armor above 2x Strength/Agility, or 3x, requires dev, but below that is based on the submission overall?

 

[Ellie Mors]

Any Force nullification items without reasonable weaknesses. ( Not sure)

If a submission does not have a reasonable weakness I will not approve it, why should we legitimize the ability to make submissions without one by putting it on a list for development?

I don't agree with putting force nullification items on there in the first place - we already have Void Stone there, the only other possible thing I could think of is Ysalamir and some Yuuzhan Vong stuff. That's about it. Force nullification resin does not do what it sounds like it does.

Holocrons ( Not including personal holocrons). ( Some sort of mission with one other writer to discover said holocron?)

I already voiced my disdain for doing this previously, mostly because it's entirely unnecessary. Yes, we require development for all canonical, unique, items - including starships, lightsabers, and so on, so why are we asking for this to be put on the restricted list and not the entirety of all unique canon items? For the record, I'd be 100% against that, too.

Powerarmor ( Maybe a contract mission where the armor is ordered, crafted, etc with another PC company)

I have the least issue with this, but I still don't feel we should just make all powerarmor require development arbitrarily. The standard development list we had was not "This is the list of everything that will always require development", it was a guideline for members to get the gist of what we might ask for development regarding submissions prior to them submitting the items. This vastly reduced the amount of WIP submissions and those that needed to be archived for development.

 

[Jairus Starvald]

I still don't see a reasonable reason why we should be putting these things on the restricted material list.

It was my assumption that we were reactive, not proactive. As far as I know we haven't had a sudden influx of power armor or overpowered holocrons or anything of the sort, so why are we having this discussion?

I'd rather we move away from superfluous development threads for arbitrary reasons.

If a power armor is in line with canon wookiepedia in terms of strengths and weaknesses, it shouldn't need a dev thread. If a holocron doesn't have twenty rare force powers attached to it, it shouldn't need a dev thread. If someone wants to coat their vault in force nullification resin, it shouldn't need a dev thread.

Aren't the dev threads there for overpowered and/or unbalanced submissions? The reasoning that 'everything that needs dev should be on the restricted list' sounds very silly to me.