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Approved Starship Marauder-class Mesen'Loras

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Image Source: Farscape, "Talyn" Peacekeeper/Leviathan Hybrid Gunship

Intent: To streamline the Mesen'Loras design, make a more common version of the design, and to provide the WoD with starships.

Restricted Missions: Invasion of Kashyyyk (all of [member=Naast'ika Laaran]'s posts)

Primary Source: See Links at Bottom

PRODUCTION INFORMATION

Manufacturer: Mandal Hypernautics
Model: “Marauder” Bio-Mechanical Ship
Affiliation: Mandal Hypernautics, Mandalorians, Witches of Dathomir, Tech-Hating Space Hippies, exc
Modularity: Increases in size as they age, can benefit from cybernetic grafting of ship-grade components
Production: Limited

Material:
  • Spine and Frame: Iron-Calcium Bones and Struts
  • Interior Hull: Bio-Organic Flesh, Wires, Veins, Arteries
  • Interior Hull: Laminanium-Enhanced Wires, Circuitry, and Support Systems
  • Outer Hull: Iron-Calcium Carapace
  • Armor Plating: Calama-Shell Carapace
  • Viewports: transparent membranes with Carapace shutters
DESCRIPTION
As the Prowler-class Mesen'loras continued to prove its capabilities as a reliable warship for Hyperion Security and the Mandalorian Clans, Mandal Hypernautics and Auron Helix invested in a new breed of Mesen'loras. Seeking to minimize the reliance on cybernetic augmentation, drastically lower the overhead cost of manufacturing a functional warship, and enhance the self-sustaining nature of an organic spaceship, new organisms and techniques were sought out to enhance the original Prowler design.

The most important change to the Prowler DNA chain was the addition of elements from the Greater Calama. With the addition of a few strains of insect DNA and the contributions of the Greater Calama, the Bioship was made capable of growing a thick outer carapace with a similar durability to a Greater Calama's. This outer carapace proves to have vastly improved resistance to energy weapons, comparable to that of even Matrix Armor. Though it does prove to be less durable to physical impact than the inner layer of carapace. Though not as durable as desired, it is thanks to this addition that Mesen'loras would no longer require fitting with the artificial armor plating that proved to stunt the creature's growth.

Also incorporated into the enhanced DNA strain were coding taken from metamorphing species. These codes were adapted to the BioShip so that various internal structures and layouts would be grown or adapted to new purposes as the ship aged. The goal being to make even the young calves viable warships. Or, more accurately, to make them capable of serving as a starfighter or gunship while they are still growing into the more desirable Corvette and Frigate sized bioships.

Fully sentient, the now designated Marauder-class Bio-Mechanical starship is designed to be the ultimate organism. Programmed with a more "aggressive and brave" personality than the original Prowler design, the Marauder is more reliable in combat, though still gets compared to a moody teenager. Designed by Mandal Hypernautics and their genetic subsidiary, Auron Helix, the Marauder is the natural next step to the Prowler design. It is a conglomeration of Quella, Charon, and Yuuzhan Vong bio-engineering and minimal cybernetic augmented by Mandal Hypernautics engineers.

The bio-ship is propelled similarly to Yuuzhan Vong Coral Ships. The creature was engineered to possess a cluster of symbiotic Dovin Basal Biot's organized into a Neuroengine that serves as a type of organ for the Mesen'Loras. This Neuroengine, like all the symbiotic and cybernetic enhancements worked into this creature, is linked directly into the central nervous system of the bio-ship and is usable to the creature like any other part of its body. With this 'organ', a Mesen'Loras is effectively able to drag itself through space without the need for mechanical thrusters or conventional fuel. Unlike the Yuuzhan Vong Coral Ships, however, the Prowler is significantly more agile.

The tail of the ship, along with the port and starboard nacelle, ends in an organic structure engineered to function identically to an Etheric Rudder. The few pilots who have attempted direct control of a Mesen'Loras have described the design as “driving a front wheel drive vehicle with rear wheel handling.” While pilots typically find the experience awkward, the bio-ship is capable of extremely agile movements. That, combined with the unique nature of the propulsion system, makes targeting the ship annoyingly difficult. Gunners and commanders alike have complained that “It just doesn't move right.” after attempting to engage a Prowler in testing operations.

The Mesen'Loras is capable of performing a natural hyperspace jump via a technique referred to as a 'starburst.' The exact nature of this ability is unknown or simply not fully understood to any but the Quellan scientist that studied the recovered Charon data. Though the technique seems to produce a less accurate hyperspace travel than conventional means, the Mesen'Loras and its Navibrain seems to have an instinctual understanding of how to travel to their intended destination. While the added benefit of being harder to track and detect than the hyperspace travels of conventional ships, there are other limitations to the technique. For starters, starbursting is rather exhausting for the bio-ship. A Mesen'Loras can only sustain a single starburst for long enough to travel roughly a single galactic unit (one hex) at a time. Upon returning to realspace, a Mesen'Loras will then have to rest for twelve to fifteen minutes to recover its strength before making another jump. If particularly exhausted, it could take as long as twenty or thirty minutes. Moreover, it can take the bio-ship several minutes to find a hyperspace route that 'feels right' for a starburst. Humanoid crew can aid the bio-ship in this regard by providing secondary telemetry and using existing star charts, but the end result is a means of travel that is statistically slower and less reliable than traditional travel over long distances. While larger Mesen'Loras are capable of traveling farther distances per starburst, smaller Mesen'Loras can travel quicker to their destination, tend to find suitable hyperspace routes faster, and have a shorter refractory period than their larger counterparts.

A starburst is significantly harder to detect via traditional sensors and biological sensors alike, which allows a Mesen'Loras Bio-mechanical ship to enter or exit a system with little fear of detection. Similarly, the creature's audio, radio, radiation, heat, and electronic emissions are significantly lower than a similar ship of its size, making it a difficult ship to detect at all. This natural advantage is further augmented by a coating of sensor dampening Reflec polymer applied externally to the bio-ship every few weeks, often appearing as an object 1/10th its actual size. The one area where the Prowler suffers in overall stealth capability is when it comes to gravimetric sensors. The nature of its propulsion systems cause the Prowler to register as a ship ten times its actual size on gravimetric sensors. A technique used by the Prowler and her crew to counter this vulnerability is to accelerate to optimal speeds while still well outside standard sensor ranges and then 'coast' the rest of the way forward, using the ship's Etheric Rudders to maneuver.

The Prowler Bio-ship is capable of naturally emitting its own Hydrostatic shield around itself. This shield, similar to the Gungan Shield Generator, is capable of protecting the ship from radiation and other environmental hazards of space just as well as energy based weaponry, and protects the bio-ship from the effects of the Dovin Basal symbiots that propel it through space. When assaulted by energy based weaponry, the shield deflects the attack, instead of simply stopping or absorbing it as other shields would. While this typically results in a ricochet-type effect, it is possible for direct hits to be deflected back onto the firing ship at point-blank ranges.

A naturally occurring symbiote of the organism, two Yuuzhan Vong Plasma Cannons grow on the outer edges of the left and right nacelle and a larger Plasma cannon grows on the forward dorsal section of the ship. These symbioic organisms are directly connected to the nervous system of the bio-ship and can be controlled by the ship. Between the two nacelle and the main hull are two forward facing Heavy Bomblet Generators that use heat and energy from the ship's bio-reactor to create and launch energy bombs.

The three naturally occurring Plasma Cannons each ejected a flaming, magma-like projectile at high speeds towards a target. This projectile could cause kinetic damage to enemy ships and could actually alter the trajectory of smaller targets. Similarly, these magma-like projectiles tend to stick to the hulls of the ships they impact causing prolonged thermal damage to shields and electronics, as well as prolonged damage to armor plating and overall hull integrity. These weapons have a slower rate of fire when compared to traditional turbolasers or mass-drivers, but pack a significantly larger punch per hit.

Each of the ship's primary turrets is capable of retracting into the hull when not in use. The two Plasma Cannons are capable of firing forward, port and starboard respectively, ventral of the ship, dorsal of the ship, and behind the ship to a limited extent. A blind spot exists directly behind the ship, and point blank targets above or below the ship are also in blind spots. The heavier Plasma Cannon is capable of firing forward, to port and starboard, above the ship, and has a limited line of fire behind the ship. The heavier Plasma Cannon is also unable to fire directly behind the ship.

Though the Mesen'Loras is equipped with a number of Dovin Basal's, its use of them is limited and the biological targeting brain of the ship is unable to effectively use these symbiotic creatures to their full effect as a means of point defense. To contend with this, it is a common practice to augment larger Mesen'Loras (over 100 meters) with a number of Mandal Hypernautics Automated Gun Platforms, or other similar point defense systems. In most situations, two are placed on the port and starboard forward dorsal section, near the Proton Cannon. One is placed on the rear dorsal section, opposite the heavier Plasma Cannon. The final turret is located centrally on the ventral side. These turrets are automated and are activated or deactivated by the crew of the ship or the ship itself. The rear facing turret is the only weapon capable of firing directly behind the ship. The ventral turret is the only weapon capable of firing directly below the ship at close ranges.

The range of effect for the Mesen'Loras's Dovin Basal's is significantly shorter than that of its Yuuzhan Vong counterpart. This doesn't stop the bio-ship from attempting to use them in combat when the time arises. Unfortunately, they typically only cause about as much shield distortion as (9-50 meters; 4x starfighter scale ion cannons. 50-120 meters; 4x capital ship ion cannons. 120-300 meters; 4x heavy ion cannons). The largest impact the Dovin Basal's have on opposing ships is actually quite unintended. Ships in close proximity to a Mesen'Loras that is actively accelerating or adjusting its heading with its Dovin Basal's (including friendly ships) are unable to safely jump to hyperspace due to the gravity distortions.



While engaged in testing, it was discovered that the Prowler's organic sensors and targeting systems were immune to the effects of Mandal Hypernautics electronic warfare techniques. It is believed that this immunity is the result of the poorly understood manner in which Yuuzhan Vong Biot's detect opposing spaceships. Due to this, it is now believed that the electronic signals produced by Mandal Hypernautics' Electronic Warfare modules are completely ineffective against Yuuzhan Vong ships and is theorized that 'Vong Sensing Nodules utilize a form of gravimetric or magnetimetric detection to identify targets. Though they could just as likely use sound or smell to detect other ships.

The Mesen'Loras is capable of emitting smaller, weaker Hydrostatic Shields similar to Gungan Personal Energy Shield along internal passages as a means of preventing atmospheric decompression or the spread of poison gas. Also engineered into the bio-ship are a number of small, anti-personnel grade plasma cannons that retract into the ceiling of the ship's hallways. These can typically be found in any ship larger than 50 meters long. There are typically two such internal defense cannons on the bridge, pilot's den, cargo hold, hanger, and in the primary reactor compartment. A few dozen such turrets are placed elsewhere throughout the ship, typically at junctions and air-locks.

The cybernetic and other mechanical adornments to the Prowler are all powered in the same way that the organism sustains itself. Nestled deep in the heart of the ship is... A heart. Of sorts. The organ is referred to as a Bio-reactor and provides all the energy the bio-ship needs to function. Grafted to this bioreactor is a thermal generator that uses the excess heat created by the organ to power the cybernetic systems of the ship.

The ship requires no true fuel. Instead, the ship simply needs to occasionally spend a period of time close to a star or gas giant. While in close proximity to one of these stellar bodies, the Prowler will absorb radiation given off by the celestial body as sustenance. This can occasionally be dangerous if the bio-ship gets too close to the gas giant or star. Should the ship get too close to a gas giant, it may find itself unable to escape the intense gravity of the planet and sink to its death. A Prowler that ventures too close to a star will suffer shield failure and burn to death long before the strength of the object's gravity overwhelms what the ship is capable of producing with its Neuroengines.

The Prowler includes genetic sequences from Firaxan Sharks and numerous other organisms. This has left the Mesen'loras with the ability to secrete its own Kolto supply. This Kolto is produced in response to injury and speeds along the healing process, enabling the creature to heal in days what would otherwise take weeks or months to heal. In larger Mesen'Loras, structures similar to tear ducts connect the organs responsible for Kolto secretion to the medical bay of the ship, allowing the medical staff aboard the ship access to a vast quantity of Kolto to aid in medical emergencies. Supporting the biological healing aspect of the Prowler, Laminanium has been worked into much of the internal circuitry to allow the cybernetic systems of the Prowler to heal at roughly the same rate as its organic structures. However, there is only so much science and engineering can do. To that extent, a colony of Dedicated Repair Droids are often released inside larger Mesen'Loras and exist solely to repair and protect the ship. Though these droids operate independently, the bio-ship is capable of limited communication with the droids via the ship's Oggzil communicator organ.


Mesen'Loras of 9-50 Meters in Length
Young Mesen'Loras are only capable of supporting a single humanoid occupant. Nestled within the cranial cavity of the creature is a single Cognition Throne, through which a pilot can interact with the young ship and control it. Unfortunately, this technique results in a blending of personalities for the duration of the experience. In younger Mesen'Loras, this results in the pilot adopting a number of childish emotional inclinations. In larger Mesen'Loras, this tends to result in enhanced predatory instincts and feelings of extreme cockiness. To reach this cognition throne, a pilot must crawl through a single passage that connects what will eventually become the ship's hanger entrance to what will eventually become the bridge. As the ship grows, this passage will become larger and more complex until it eventually houses the entire internal corridor system of an adult Mesen'Loras.



Mesen'Loras of 50 Meters or longer
The bridge of the ship is a network of cybernetic and bio-engineered systems. Computers and viewscreens rest side-by-side with Qahsa Biocomputers, Targeting Brains, Navibrains, and other organic constructs. While there are numerous stations organized throughout the bridge for crew to operate, the Mesen'Loras is capable of operating fully without the oversight of a crew of humanoids. Or so it likes to think. In reality, most bridge officers have years of training and experience that can greatly benefit the ship in peace and combat. Nestled to the port of the bridge is the pilot's den where a Cognition Throne resides. From here, a pilot or commander can interface directly with the ship and assume control of the ship's systems. A Mesen'Loras is capable of contesting an unwanted commander through strength of will, but will more often than not simply shoot an unwanted commander with the two plasma cannons recessed into the ceiling of the pilot's den.



STRENGTHS
+ Does not require conventional fuel
+ Will self-repair over time
+ Fully Sentient
+ Energy resistant, double layered armor
+ Exotic shield systems which causes energy weapons to 'deflect'
+ Exotic biological and biomechanical sensors and transceivers are hard to effect with Ewar
+ Extremely hard to detect
+ Fast for a ship of its size
+ Extremely Agile for a ship of its size

WEAKNESSES
- Limited fire-arcs
- Short range weaponry
- Outer Carapace vulnerable to kinetic weapons
- When using Dovin Basal's, highly visible on Gravimetric / CGT sensors
- Captain does not actually control ship, merely 'makes suggestions' that it may or may not follow
- Ship feels pain when injured and will become less compliant to Captain's requests




TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS

Classification: BioShip (Interceptor, Starfighter, Heavy Starfighter, Gunship, Corvette, and Frigate)
Role: Combat and Exploration
Length: ~9-300 meters
Power Core Generator/Reactor: Bioreactor and Thermal coupling
Hyperdrive Rating: Class 0.6 (Very Fast to Average: see notes)
Minimum Crew: 0-1
Optimal Crew: 0-80
Passenger Capacity: 0-200
Cargo Capacity: 0-1,000 tons
Consumables: 1-12 Months

RATINGS
  • Maneuverability Rating: High
  • Speed Rating: High
  • Defensive Rating: Average
  • Armament Rating: Average (Moderate at point blank)
NON-COMBATIVE ATTACHMENTS

Passive Camouflage
Thermal Dissipater: Lorqh Membranes
Advanced Sensory Array: Sensing Nodule, Life Form Indicator,
Standard Targeting Systems: Targeting Brain
Advanced Navigational Systems: Navibrain
Advanced Communications Systems: Oggzil Villip Communication Organisms
Standard Life Support Systems
Advanced Shielding Systems: Hydrostatic Shields
Advanced Security Systems: Internal Lifeform Scanner, Internal Heat-pit Sensor,
Detention Cells
Qahsa Biocomputers
Glow Lichens

NAVIGATION / PROPULSION

“Starburst” Biological Capability
Navibrain
Neuroengines
Triple Etheric Rudders
Inertial Compensator
Cognition Throne

ARMAMENT
(Weapons grow in size as ship grows in size)
HANGER
Hangar Rating: Average
  • If <120 meters: no hanger yet grown
  • If 120-150 meters: 1/6th a Squadron
  • If 150-180 meters: 1/3rd a Squadron
  • If 180-220 meters: Half a Squadron
  • If 220-260 meters: 2/3rds a Squadron
  • If 260-300 meters: 1 Squadron
Notes:
Hyperdrive rating is based on the actual transition speed per jump. While one or two jumps won't bother the ship much, living ship gets increasingly exhausted by numerous hyperspace jumps. The ship requires a "refractory period" between jumps that increases in length with each additional hyperspace jump. In practical terms, this means that each hyperspace jump after the first adds 0.2 to the current overall time it takes for the ship to prepare for a jump and complete said jump. And if you are trying to travel from one side of the galaxy to the other, the trip will take significantly longer than in a traditional ship, as the Bio-ship will need to "stop for a snack" in orbit near a star or gas giant.


Links
Prowler-class Mesen'Loras
Mesen'Loras Species
Canon Sentient Spaceship
Canon Bio-ship
 

ADM. Reshmar

Directorate Officer Fleet Admiral SJC 3rd Fleet
RESEARCH REVIEW
-----
Star Wars Canon:
Pending initial review
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Starwars Chaos:
Pending initial review
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WITHOUT DEV THREADS
Pending initial review
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WITH DEV THREADS
Pending Initial review
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SUGGESTIONS
Pending Inital review
 

ADM. Reshmar

Directorate Officer Fleet Admiral SJC 3rd Fleet
[member="Captain Larraq"]



Captain Larraq said:
Interior Hull: Laminanium-Enhanced Wires, Circuitry, and Support Systems
Do you have the development thread for this?

Laminanium (( Objective : With two or more other writers, complete a role-play in reverse, starting with it’s end and ending with it’s beginning –OR-- complete a role-play from an NPC’s perspective who is accompanying your character. ))
 

ADM. Reshmar

Directorate Officer Fleet Admiral SJC 3rd Fleet
[member="Captain Larraq"]



Captain Larraq said:
Interior Hull: Laminanium-Enhanced Wires, Circuitry, and Support Systems
this thread has to be done for the use of the material.

SO to make this easier I am just going to judge the larger verson of this and anything smaller would just fall under the larger one.



Captain Larraq said:
Thermal Dissipater: Lorqh Membranes Advanced Sensory Array: Sensing Nodule, Life Form Indicator, Standard Targeting Systems: Targeting Brain Advanced Navigational Systems: Navibrain Advanced Communications Systems: Oggzil Villip Communication Organisms Standard Life Support Systems Advanced Shielding Systems: Hydrostatic Shields Advanced Security Systems: Internal Lifeform Scanner, Internal Heat-pit Sensor,
To cover all the advanced and bio-organic systems. mainly the hydrostatic shielding, advanced sensors, and thermal dissipater, I would like 20 posts of dev. thread



Captain Larraq said:
“Starburst” Biological Capability Navibrain Neuroengines Triple Etheric Rudders Inertial Compensator Cognition Throne
since the triple etheric rudders are meant for fighters I would like 10 posts of development for bigger variants.



Captain Larraq said:
ARMAMENT (Armament Rating at any/every size: 19) (Weapons grow in size as ship grows in size)
I am just going to go off this and not off the listed weapon since you state it will grow as it ages.



Captain Larraq said:
If <100 meters: no hanger yet grown If 100-120 meters: 2 Starfighters If 120-150 meters: 4 Starfighters If 150-180 meters: 6 Starfighters If 180-220 meters: 10 Starfighters If 220-260 meters: 14 Starfighters If 260-300 meters: 18 Starfighters
I am just going to look at this like it has 1.5 squadrons since once it is grown that is basically what it will have.

So with weapons being 19 and it having 1.5 squadrons, plus I just feel that the number of these being grown would not fall into minor. I Would like the Production lowered to Limited.

So Limited Production, the Laminanium thread and 30 posts of development
 
[member="Reshmar"]


I'm not entirely sure how familiar you've made yourself with the Mesen'Loras, be it the previous Prowler type or the species submission, but I'll clarify a few things that seem to possibly be at odds between your judgement and the existing IC and OOC situation with these submissions.

The Marauder-class Mesen'Loras is 95% identical to the Prowler-class Mesen'Loras. The developmental process has been streamlined to make the Marauder a little less combat effective in the Corvette ranges, but makes the species vastly cheaper and quicker to reproduce, does not stunt the growth of the creature once they reach a "combat effective" size, and allows them to be combat effective at much quicker rates.



Reshmar said:
Sensor Dampener
Gravitic Modulator
Passive Camouflage
Thermal Dissipater: Lorqh Membranes
Advanced Sensory Array: Sensing Nodule, Life Form Indicator,
Standard Targeting Systems: Targeting Brain
Advanced Navigational Systems: Navibrain
Advanced Communications Systems: Oggzil Villip Communication Organisms
Standard Life Support Systems
Advanced Shielding Systems: Hydrostatic Shields
Advanced Security Systems: Internal Lifeform Scanner, Internal Heat-pit Sensor,
Detention Cells
Qahsa Biocomputers
Glow Lichens

To cover all the advanced and bio-organic systems. mainly the hydrostatic shielding, advanced sensors, and thermal dissipater, I would like 20 posts of dev. thread

Captain Larraq said:

since the triple etheric rudders are meant for fighters I would like 10 posts of development for bigger variants.
Each system you've mentioned as being a justification for requiring development threads/posts are identical to the original design, and are in some cases toned down from the original variant of the species.

The changes to the original design are an enhanced natural carapace instead of artificially adding beskar plating to the creature, speeding up the creature's growth and reproduction cycle, and removing a number of the cybernetic systems. Particularly, the Heavy Proton Cannon.



Reshmar said:
So with weapons being 19 and it having 1.5 squadrons, plus I just feel that the number of these being grown would not fall into minor. I Would like the Production lowered to Limited.

So Limited Production, the Laminanium thread and 30 posts of development

Again, I'm not entirely sure how familiar you are with the species and how it is manufactured, but Mandal Hypernautics / Auron Helix has a captured Lygria (Alor'buir) living in a large lake (Kibo Lake) on Ord Cestus. This creature is capable of giving birth to live young in clutches of 12 to 80. To produce Mesen'Loras, Alor'buir is artificially impregnated with the DNA of the Bio-Ship. After a number of months, she gives birth to a clutch of 12-80 calves. Typically though, she only gives birth to 12-24 calves at a time. These calves are allowed to swim freely in the lake until they are selected to be sent into orbit to undergo artificial augmentation. In orbit, a single Mesen'yai Space Station rapidly accelerate the growth process of a Mesen'Loras. For Prowler-class Mesen'Loras, they can be brought to 150 meters of length in six months before the process is halted and cybernetic augmentations made upon the creature.

For Marauder-class Mesen'Loras, the growth process is quicker and they require fewer cybernetic augmentations. Additionally, because the creatures will not be augmented with the rare, expensive, heavy, and hard to work with Beskar Plating... the creatures can be matured to their full 300 meter length. Meaning that sexually mature adults can be produced in roughly 6-10 months. And since these creatures are capable of breeding in the wild, or being bread specifically to create a fleet of such craft... The long-term production rating for these creatures will be rather impressive.


SO! Here's what I'm thinking. A 20 post Laminanium development thread, and then a separate 10 post development thread to increase the production rating of the Mesen'yai Space Station from Unique 1x to Limited Production. Even with just 12 or so stations cranking out two sexually mature adults every year or year and a half, plus the capability of these creatures to reproduce in the wild (thus creating a large number of wild Mesen'Loras of all sizes), I feel that Minor Production is quite reasonable. And since 95% of the technology going into the submission (and 100% of what you listed as justification for development) has already been approved in the Prowler-class Mesen'Loras submission that this is based on... Simply doing the standard 20 post development thread for Laminanium on a Minor Production submission should suffice.
 

ADM. Reshmar

Directorate Officer Fleet Admiral SJC 3rd Fleet
[member="Captain Larraq"]

Each submission is judged on its own merits. while previous submissions can be close to a current one it has nothing to do with the current submission as it stands in the factory.



Captain Larraq said:
I'm not entirely sure how familiar you've made yourself with the Mesen'Loras,

I am very familure with the design. Its a living ship. So no worries there.



Captain Larraq said:
The Marauder-class Mesen'Loras is 95% identical to the Prowler-class Mesen'Loras
its a completely different submission regardless of its similarities. For starters you are trying to submit more than one vessel in one submission. This is fine as I said I was just judging it on the largest of the design. But the Marauder is 3 1/3 times bigger than the Prowler, The Prowler is Semi-unique, and you did development for it.

The Development you did on one ship for one sub does not carry over to the next. You can As I understand it use standard development 2 times. But the development for the Laminanium is a one time thing. And generally used for one item. So a 90 meter ship with semiunique production and over 100 posts of development compared to a ship 3 1/3 times bigger at 300 meters with minor production and no development. It just is not possible.



Captain Larraq said:
The developmental process has been streamlined to make the Marauder a little less combat effective in the Corvette ranges,
I am only judging this in the max size. anything below that is it just growing to reach its normal size and statistics. IF you are wanting to have it judged at different sizes then submit it as different sized ships. I am judging it as a full grown mature ship at the most advanced and complete stats it can achieve.



Captain Larraq said:
but makes the species vastly cheaper and quicker to reproduce, does not stunt the growth of the creature once they reach a "combat effective" size, and allows them to be combat effective at much quicker rates.
This is cool and all well and good but has nothing to do with the submission itself.



Captain Larraq said:
Each system you've mentioned as being a justification for requiring development threads/posts are identical to the original design, and are in some cases toned down from the original variant of the species.
The original design has nothing to do with this submission. as stated above each submission is its own deal. you can not use something from a previous design and expect it to carry over to a completly differnet design. IF this were an upgrade or a variant of a design then sure that could work. BUt this is its own entity. This is not the Prowler MK II it is its own ship and life form.



Captain Larraq said:
The changes to the original design are an enhanced natural carapace instead of artificially adding beskar plating to the creature, speeding up the creature's growth and reproduction cycle, and removing a number of the cybernetic systems. Particularly, the Heavy Proton Cannon.
again this is very cool but has nothing to do with the submission and how it is judged.



Captain Larraq said:
Again, I'm not entirely sure how familiar you are with the species and how it is manufactured, but Mandal Hypernautics / Auron Helix has a captured Lygria (Alor'buir) living in a large lake (Kibo Lake) on Ord Cestus. This creature is capable of giving birth to live young in clutches of 12 to 80. To produce Mesen'Loras, Alor'buir is artificially impregnated with the DNA of the Bio-Ship. After a number of months, she gives birth to a clutch of 12-80 calves. Typically though, she only gives birth to 12-24 calves at a time. These calves are allowed to swim freely in the lake until they are selected to be sent into orbit to undergo artificial augmentation. In orbit, a single Mesen'yai Space Station rapidly accelerate the growth process of a Mesen'Loras. For Prowler-class Mesen'Loras, they can be brought to 150 meters of length in six months before the process is halted and cybernetic augmentations made upon the creature.
Yes I know this stuff. And again it is very cool but has nothing to do with the submission. It can still be limited and have a substantial number. but compared to a normal frigate it just wold not be as numerous. IF you want minor production that is fine but it will make the development go up dramatically. The Limited production was more to keep the development down not to limit how many there are.

so
Option 1 is Limited production 20 posts Laminanium thread and 30 posts development
Option 2 is minor production 30 posts Laminanium thread and 50 posts development.
 
Reshmar said:
its a completely different submission regardless of its similarities. For starters you are trying to submit more than one vessel in one submission. This is fine as I said I was just judging it on the largest of the design. But the Marauder is 3 1/3 times bigger than the Prowler, The Prowler is Semi-unique, and you did development for it.

The original design was 150 meters, not 90.


Reshmar said:
I am very familure with the design. Its a living ship. So no worries there.

So I'm not entirely sure that you're all that familiar with it.


Reshmar said:
The Development you did on one ship for one sub does not carry over to the next. You can As I understand it use standard development 2 times. But the development for the Laminanium is a one time thing. And generally used for one item. So a 90 meter ship with semiunique production and over 100 posts of development compared to a ship 3 1/3 times bigger at 300 meters with minor production and no development. It just is not possible.

Actually, Mark Two designs are fairly common. In the situations that I can recall, it's mainly the difference between the two designs that is taken into consideration for development requirements. With, you know, the exception of restricted materials. The only difference between doing a submission modification request for the Prowler design and creating a Mk II design (the Marauder) is that any Prowler ships already in existence remain unchanged.


Reshmar said:
Each submission is judged on its own merits. while previous submissions can be close to a current one it has nothing to do with the current submission as it stands in the factory.

I'm sorry, but I feel that you are incorrect in this matter. Not only is the source material always taken into consideration, but every single submission in the factory is, in fact, judged based upon the merits of itself as compared to every previous submission. Otherwise, it would not be a common practice to list examples of similar submissions to use as reference when determining development thread requirements. And any situation in which previously existing technology is modified from its original form is judged by taking the original submission into consideration.

http://starwarsrp.net/topic/36335-besuliik-starfighter-angel-variant/
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/30033-modified-scion-class-stealth-corvette/
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/17904-hyperion-combat-armor/
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/29365-hyperion-combat-armor-advanced/
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/34785-hyperion-beskargam/
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/19139-cabur-class-starfighter/
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/60019-mkii-cabur-class-starfighter/
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/26560-type-2-keldabe-class-battleship/
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/26561-type-2-kyramund-class-battleship/
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/43234-mkii-wanga-class-cruiser/
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/43091-mkii-azalus-class-flak-frigate/
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/47799-modified-consular-class-corvette/

***
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/44471-the-republic-deliverance-class-heavy-carrier/
***
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/42670-attrition-class-light-star-destroyer-mark-ii-attrition-ii-class/
***
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/41529-noble-class-star-defender/



Heck, here are some excellent examples from Draco, showing both the advancement and modification of a design and where comparing the submission to previous designs was used to determine fair edits and appropriate number of development threads.

http://starwarsrp.net/topic/62148-avenger-class-starfigher/
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/62838-avenger-class-stealth-starfighter/

http://starwarsrp.net/topic/8859-protectorate-blockade-runner/
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/58943-modified-blockade-runners/

http://starwarsrp.net/topic/63216-myrmidon-class-frigate/
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/74087-warden-class-sentinel-frigate/

http://starwarsrp.net/topic/62464-cobra-class-gunship/
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/66018-besdrahr-class-battleship/


There are even a few here that you approved, which only achieve approval without requiring development threads due to overall complexity because the technology used in the submission had already been developed and approved through the Factory.

http://starwarsrp.net/topic/75237-guardian-class-shield-support-carrier/
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/74132-crystal-retreat/




Even in your own submissions, you borrow elements from the previously submitted Victory III class Star Destroyer, despite it coming from a different writer and with no IC connection or justification, or even coming from the same manufacturer. And yet I'm not seeing development thread requests beyond requiring minimal length threads for the molecular shields you tried to slap onto a few of them. That doesn't tell me that submissions are not being judged based upon previous technology.

http://starwarsrp.net/topic/73669-ardent-x-fast-frigate/
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/73332-fulgor-class-pursuit-cruiser/
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/72873-vindicator-mk-x-class-heavy-cruiser/
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/73429-gladiator-mk-x-class-carriercruiser/
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/72572-vigil-mk-iv-class-heavy-corvette/
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/72419-eliminator-class-enforcement-support-corvette/
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/71964-intersector-class-war-sloop/
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/71993-customs-class-commerce-corvette/
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/71748-kantos-class-war-frigate/





I agree that the submission needs a 30 post development thread for Laminanium (I derped. For some reason I was thinking that 10 posts was for limited and 20 was for minor.), but I absolutely do not believe that the submission requires a 30-50 post development thread in addition to this, when I have already put more than enough work into obtaining every bit of technology utilized in this submission.


I'm sorry [member="Reshmar"], but I'm going to have to insist on a new Judge.
 

ADM. Reshmar

Directorate Officer Fleet Admiral SJC 3rd Fleet
[member="Captain Larraq"]

Sorry I read the width, I was cooking dinner when I posted. sorry about that. This is what I read.

Width: 70 meters [min] - 90 meters [max]

Even at 150 meters that is 1/2 the size it is still semi unique with 120 posts of development.



Captain Larraq said:
I'm sorry, but I feel that you are incorrect in this matter.
Actually I am not. Each sub is its own submission and previous submission do not have any reference to them.

Please refer to this thread. Link

Each Submission is judged on its own merits and previous submission have no precedence to them. I was judging this as its own ship as I stated multiple times. the Prowler has nothing to do with it.
 
Reshmar said:
[member="Captain Larraq"]

Sorry I read the width, I was cooking dinner when I posted. sorry about that. This is what I read.

Width: 70 meters [min] - 90 meters [max]

Even at 150 meters that is 1/2 the size it is still semi unique with 120 posts of development.




Actually I am not. Each sub is its own submission and previous submission do not have any reference to them.

Please refer to this thread. Link

Each Submission is judged on its own merits and previous submission have no precedence to them. I was judging this as its own ship as I stated multiple times. the Prowler has nothing to do with it.

Spencer Jacobs said:
They are not based on each other so there is no reason to compare and contrast them.

She was also referring to two entirely separate submissions with no IC or OOC relation to one another. Not to an upgrade being applied to an existing design.


That being said... Ayden's ship is a cut and dry dedicated carrier with no trimmings. It has far more justification to have maximum hanger capacity than, say, the Wyyrlok. Which out-guns the Dark Blade by 200 capital guns, has the hanger capacity of a maximum sized dedicated carrier, and flatly claims in its description that the entire front half of the ship is "mostly empty space". His ship makes sense and is as standard as it gets. I would have probably rubber stamped it. Ten post dev thread at best.


Regardless though, I do not see the merits of your argument and find myself disagreeing with them. I also find myself quite shocked that you've taken such a sudden and drastic change in the standards by which you are reviewing submissions. After all, the recent Rekali-class Starfighter that you yourself approved was rubber stamped with nothing more than a mandatory minimum 30 post development thread for the Beskar. And yet that submission creates (at that size) a considerably more durable and versatile ship with more advanced and exotic systems than this current submission, including a duel shield system utilizing two different advanced shield designs, one of which (to my knowledge) has never before been used on this board. Most the the technology utilized in that submission came from previous designs made by Larraq, but not all of it. And yet for that you asked for only 30 posts for the Beskar.

Between the inconsistencies in the judgments you render, and my disagreement with your views towards this submission, I'm going to have to insist that I request a different judge.

[member="Spencer Jacobs"]
 
Currently this has essentially maximum armaments, maximum hangars, pushing the limits of speed, incredibly durable hull, some advanced stealth system, a unique form of hyperdrve and 0 development.


Background information

Regarding Corvette Hangars:

(Please provide the amount of fighters this submission can hold in it's hangar by count of Squadrons, which hold 12 average Starfighters. The higher your squadron count, the lower your Armament and number of Special Features should be. This submission's Max Squadron Count: 1

Regarding Hijarna Stone:

Hijarna stone was a material found in a fortress on Hijarna, as well as the Hand of Thrawn on Nirauan. The stone was black, incredibly dense, and had the apparent ability to absorb laser or turbolaser fire like a sponge. This is not to say it was invulnerable to all forms of energy attacks, however - a powerful enough laser blast, such as that from a superlaser, would damage it. Additionally, it could absorb energy somewhat from lightsabers but after enough hits the stone would break.

Previous Judgement:

The work is there. The thing is overpowered but is unique. If you don't go making more of these with out adding hard numbers to the sub then I see no issues. If this is used for blatant powergamming then it will be reviewed again but as I have no further objections than "what if".

Approved Pending Secondary.





Let's break this down by systems:

Hyperdrive
You've pinched Starburst from Farscape. This is a rating of 0.6. You've made it very hard to detect.

For the smallest ship of its class, how long would it take to make a long distance voyage (say half a galaxy) compared to a traditional class 1 hyperdrive. Is this a significant reduction in long distance speed?

I'm assuming given the quote on dovin basals it's affected by gravity wells?

Stealth

The stealth systems this this submission warrant a solid 20 posts of development for minor.

Hangar

The current template lists the max hangar as 1 for up to 200m with low armaments and limited special systems. You may drop the hangar entirely for the vessel entirely OR drop the armament rating to ~10.

Laminanium

Requires development in line with the restricted item list. 20 posts should do the trick.

Hull

Clearly the quote for Hijarna stone goes above and beyond something acceptable. Can you please tone this down in the description please? It shouldn't go far beyond a typical durasteel hull or additional development will be required.

Speed

Please change to roughly the following (apologies I'd noted down the approximate middle value):

Size Speed
10 1.5
15 2
24 2
40 3
65 4
90 5
110 5
130 6
165 6
200 7
240 7
280 8

If you wish to stick with the original ratings an additional 20 posts of development will be required. Alternatively we could do some trade off in terms of making the main armament exceedingly light.

Armaments

To give me a bit of a feel for this, how powerful would you say the weapons systems are compared to a typical X-wing (for this size class)
[member="Captain Larraq"]
 
Raziel said:
Regarding Hijarna Stone:

Hijarna stone was a material found in a fortress on Hijarna, as well as the Hand of Thrawn on Nirauan. The stone was black, incredibly dense, and had the apparent ability to absorb laser or turbolaser fire like a sponge. This is not to say it was invulnerable to all forms of energy attacks, however - a powerful enough laser blast, such as that from a superlaser, would damage it. Additionally, it could absorb energy somewhat from lightsabers but after enough hits the stone would break.

Previous Judgement:

The work is there. The thing is overpowered but is unique. If you don't go making more of these with out adding hard numbers to the sub then I see no issues. If this is used for blatant powergamming then it will be reviewed again but as I have no further objections than "what if".




Hull

Clearly the quote for Hijarna stone goes above and beyond something acceptable. Can you please tone this down in the description please? It shouldn't go far beyond a typical durasteel hull or additional development will be required.
My viewpoint on Hijarnia Stone, as it is not a restricted material, is that it would offer roughly similar durability against energy weapons tk Matrix Armor. Likewise, as it is (so far), a stone, shell, or carapace... it would not be as resiliant against physical attacks (mass drivers) as a metal would be (such as durasteel).

The trade off is really good energy resistance, but fairly brittle against mass drivers.




The reason I've got it set up as individual starfighters instead of squadrons is because these things would predominantly only carry smaller versions of themselves in their hangers. For instance, a 132 meter long Marauder would likely hold a 10m, a 11m, a 13m, and a 16m calf. While, in younger Marauders between 100 and 150 meters in length, these calves would be younger siblings... in older, larger Marauders, these starfighters would actually be the offspring of themselves or their mate. If you check out the species sub, these things get their hanger capacity cut in half while gestating offspring.


The goal with the hanger size vs ship length is to maintain roughly 2/3rds the hanger size of a traditional ship.





It's easiest to explain the armament rating system as compared to the 2.0 guide, as opposed to anything else. As, in the 3.0 guide, there are zero set standards opposed to comparing individual submissions to other submissions.

In the 2.0 Guide, any "balanced ship" would aim for an armament rating of 16-18 to maintain a simple yet competative offensive armament. An "assault ship" would look to maintain an armament rating of 18-20. Personally, I'd view an X-wing as a 17 or 18, while a TIE Fighter would be closer to a 14-16. Coralskipper? Probably an 18-19, but with maneuverability issues.

Considering that the ship has fairly close range weapons and bomb launchers instead of torpedoes or missiles, the slightly higher armament rating is due to the heavy close range punch it packs. The ship is designed to fly up quickly, fire everything 3-4 times, then zoom away.



The Hyperdrive speed listed is the physical quickness with which the ship travels through hyperspace. If the ship is going from Mandalore to Ordo (so close that planet Ordo isn't shown on the map), the ship is moving at speed 0.6. But if the ship has to make a second or third jump to reach its destination? The overall travel time quickly drips to roughly Hyperdrive speed 1. Going across the galaxy? You're looking at an overall speed 1.5 or 2.

Granted... The Marauder can navigate rougher patches of Hyperspace than most conventional ships. But in those cases, it takes quite a while of sitting around in realspace while the ship "feels out" which way it needs to go.



While I get the desire to request development threads for stealth aspects, at 20 posts I'd expect the ship to include visual cloaking, like an octopus. The majority of the stealth aspect simply comes from a drastically reduced amount of metal and electronics in the ship. Because... Organic. Granted... reflek and a gravitic modulator... But it also comes with a fairly balanced (and amusing) counterpoint.... Dovin Basals light up CGT like nothing else.

Anyway... I'd like to hear your viewpoints on how many posts gets you how much stealth.



Oh. And yes. Gravity fields effect the Mesen'Loras's version of hyperspace travel too.
 
[member="Captain Larraq"]

Please remove references to the stone and make generic statements on the armour being more efficient against energy based attacks and weaker against others please, ensuring this is reflected in strengths and weaknesses.

Please let me know when all other edits and dev have been made.
 
[member="Raziel"]


I've gone threw it and tweeked a few things. I took out the gravitic modulators and most of the stealth based stuff outside of the natural tenancy for flesh to produce less noise, produce fewer electronic signals, and have a smaller magnetic signature. I left on that a coat of reflec is sprayed on every few weeks, to help protect against basic sensors.

I converted the hanger into squadrons and reduced the hanger at the 180-220 meter range to 8 starfighters (3/4ths of a squadron) from the original 10.

I've removed mention of Hijarna stone and touched up the strengths and weaknesses to reflect the current design.
I've also clarified that the design incorporates fairly close range weapons, as compared to a standard turbolaser.


Where are we standing atm?
 
[member="Captain Larraq"]

So to summarise we've got a range of sizes that include a fighter-class up to a corvette-class (and slightly larger)

They've all got top of the range speed, man, armaments, hangars. None of the special features are standing out as requiring any particular development any more (other than the restricted mat one).

You're at minor production.

I'll have a quick think and get back to you on total dev requirements. (If you brought the armaments down to 14 and halved the hangar we'd be good without dev based on the capabilities of the ship I think.)
 
[member="Raziel"]


I'm fine with a little bit of dev. My viewpoint on the armament rating is that anything 10 or lower would be a civilian ship. Even a carrier or support ship should have an armament of 10-12. Any dedicated warship should aim for an absolute minimum armament of 14. The lowest I could see a ship like this going on the armament rating scale is down to an 18. And even then, most of the combat capabilities of the ship come into effect at knife-fighting ranges. I think... if we really pushed it, we could do 16 at standard turbolaser ranges and 18-19 at point blank... But I'd rather just leave it at 19 or 18.
 
[member="Captain Larraq"]

There's a good amount of work gone into the submission itself here. Given you're pushing the boat out on all the stats and getting several classes of ship in the same whack I'm going to ask for 20 posts of development in addition to carrying out the 20 post Laminanian goal.
 
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