Forged in Fire
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, another member approached me with similar ideas. Definitely a lot to take into account here, and I'll be thinking on all of it!
Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos
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Feedback MAKE COMPANIES GREAT AGAIN PART 1
- Thread starter Annasari
- Start date
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, another member approached me with similar ideas. Definitely a lot to take into account here, and I'll be thinking on all of it!
The Monster
Monster
On the one hand, would love to bring back this idea of tiers. It would make factory mean a little more I guess since there's a consistent group of people that do a lot there (myself included), but I would be really sketchy to do so. This is because I think there is a massive chance for people to come up with arbitrary rules that turn subjective and opinion based observations into rules that will either restrict or otherwise take away from people's ability to be creative. Take my PMO (Para-Military Organization) The Dire Wolves and it's subsidiary civilian production and development firm Freebirds Industries. I started through RP using just the bare minimum of production and research capabilities which allowed me to start TDW as a small PMC that operated out of a single gunship. As I expanded the scope of the company I gave it gradually more people and increased the ship size to where it currently is now, and created a civilian manufacturing firm to have a devoted and specialized company that instead of just providing a small PMO weapons, armor and gear can now produce a variety of products both civilian and military. And what I fear is that people establish arbitrary rules that will restrict this kind of natural progression or will allow for an elitist "good ole boys/girls" club where the highest tiers are reserved for people who are either well liked or very well established. Then the argument would start with people talking about gear where the tier of the company is what determines it's quality and availability, not the level of work put into a sub or the actual creativity of the creators who made it in the first place. Names like Locke and Key, Roble Manufacturing, Republic Engineering Corp, and many others would automatically win compared to many other smaller scale but equal quality development and production firms. It's why I didn't participate when the Stock Exchange went up last time as I would rather choose what my companies do and how they conduct business, rather than have that dictated to me by someone else because their company is a higher tier and therefore is better. Not to mention several companies on the site being Canon-linked and having widespread proliferation already alongside being critical for day to day operations of the average citizen.
That's my two c-bills, do with it what you will as while I would hope it would be used to make something even better I see lots of potential for abuse.
That's my two c-bills, do with it what you will as while I would hope it would be used to make something even better I see lots of potential for abuse.
Character
Couldn't a business just start a faction and as long as they have enough employee's (members) and activity they could take over as much as the map as they want?
Forged in Fire
Nothing to stop them from doing that if they wanted, but as I mentioned, I didn't mean to imply I wanted companies to just straight up own hexes. As
Takui
said, influence doesn't mean ownership when it comes to corporations, so it would be more finding ways to play on that influence.The Monster
Monster
Just to clarify I would absolutely love for the factory to mean something, for all of these companies to have some kind of impact in the galaxy at large. But I would temper that absolute love and hope for something like that to come about, because I can already see it being abused and used to give people more IC power for the sake of giving them something to Lord over other people. I do not, in any way wish for that to come to pass and would regret if the factory started devolving into that. As the main reason I do a lot of my writing there is because there are rules and quantifiable, objective standards that are set and that I can set for myself. And I am the person who decides how limited or widespread I want my subs to be, and can do as much or as little work into them as I like to increase/decrease their quality. There is no OOC to influence things I make, and there is no overarching "council" that can just arbitrarily decide that just because they don't like my particular flavor of subs that my company is now essentially worthless and defunct and that my stuff is now all garbage.
This idea has lots of potential, and I would love to see it come out in a way that allows for people to expand their creativity, to motivate them to push the limits of what they can dream up, of what the rules allow. But the moment people use it as justification for why they're stuff is better, or as an excuse as to why they don't have to put as much effort to make a sub better because "it just is better because I'm tier x", I feel it will have crossed the line and be a massive detriment, alongside chasing any new ideas away from the factory/codex. And this I feel would be a failing on all our parts if this were to come to pass.
This idea has lots of potential, and I would love to see it come out in a way that allows for people to expand their creativity, to motivate them to push the limits of what they can dream up, of what the rules allow. But the moment people use it as justification for why they're stuff is better, or as an excuse as to why they don't have to put as much effort to make a sub better because "it just is better because I'm tier x", I feel it will have crossed the line and be a massive detriment, alongside chasing any new ideas away from the factory/codex. And this I feel would be a failing on all our parts if this were to come to pass.
Annasari
What is it that you want to do specifically that you can't accomplish within the present framework?
Right now, company holders can either start their own Major, or work through established Majors using informal clout to influence policy like some Minor groups do. Folks into that sort of thing already do it, with some of them commenting in this thread.
Rynn Vizsla
Spawnslayer
I think that the influence aspect is already something that can be done through Factory and Codex submissions alongside working with the various Major Factions. So, I don't think there needs to be any additional system(s) in play - when all one needs to do is take the initiative and put the effort in. If folks want their Companies to affect the map directly, they should put effort into making a major faction just like the rest of the groups already painting that ever-changing diagram with their selected colours.
The same could be said about canon companies now, as there's nothing stopping folks from taking them over - the only thing that's changed is that the Factory isn't going to stop duplicates from being made. If that affects the originality? Well, prove to the website that your company's better by making not only thematic products - but making them better than the other person's.
Shrugs
I see no reason why economic roleplay, let alone owning and operating a company, should get its own set of rules - when they've got everything they could ever need already at their disposal. All they need is the people to think outside the box and put effort into making them "great" again.
The same could be said about canon companies now, as there's nothing stopping folks from taking them over - the only thing that's changed is that the Factory isn't going to stop duplicates from being made. If that affects the originality? Well, prove to the website that your company's better by making not only thematic products - but making them better than the other person's.
Shrugs
I see no reason why economic roleplay, let alone owning and operating a company, should get its own set of rules - when they've got everything they could ever need already at their disposal. All they need is the people to think outside the box and put effort into making them "great" again.
Born Sinner
Lady of Vanity
I think my question would kind of be why and what cannot be accomplished within the current framework? That question also extends out to other replies in this thread as well in favor of a change. The current system is very open and I don't believe there's anything stopping anyone from RP'ing their company as hardcore as they like but it also allows people who don't want to do that to have a company without any strings attached. For example I only have a company so I can list a manufacturer for my personal stuff and for the ship size increase and I can have these lightweight benefits without needing to have a large investment in time and conversely it still allows corps like Locke and Key Mechanics or any of our other much larger/more investment corps on the board.
Character
I mean back in the day when I had more time, I worked hard to get agreements with multiple major factions and feel like I influenced them and their space. They were using my products for all sorts of things due to these agreements. I mean it all went to crap when I got declared a war criminal but that is besides the point, the framework is there it just takes effort to work in the in character agreements with factions. Its just like the real world, you need to wheel and deal and get people to like you and suddenly your providing them whatever you sell. I had more than one major faction agree to use my factory sub for a holonet satellite. Sure there was no fancy map but the fact was I influenced all the space they took up because it was my satellites that they agreed to use. so I guess I am echoing that companies are as great as you let them be and we don't really need to change anything?
Sic transit gloria mundi
This also sums up my view of things. Done tons of Codex and Factory subs for Firemane and Archangel, roleplayed them exercising 'influence' on a bunch of worlds and rped with this or that faction. I don't need to paint a map blue, red, purple or whichever colour in order to feel that my company game is meaningful. Frankly, I can already do virtually everything a major faction can, except build an SSD (they're irrelevant anyway) or paint a part of the map my colour etc. And again, the average company is the work of one person. A major faction is always a group of people, be it large or small. In addition, under the present rules, minor factions can do the same things as companies.
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Buy'ce olar, kar'ta ogir
I'd like to preface this by saying I'm not fully knowledgeable on how tiers worked in the past. What it sounds like is that you thread to go up the tiers, or you make subs. Furthermore, I would like there to be stakes regarding companies. However, stakes are also what we make of them in RP, and making something else for stakes is just extra work for factory judges. The same goes for loss and gain, it's up to the writer. If they feel like their company can take this massive hit, whether an attack or loss of material, then that's on them. And if they want to RP out the hardships because it brings them more fun, then that's up to them as well. Arbitrarily adding things in to regulate that takes the control away from them, and also forces that onto the writer.
To the meat of what I'd like to say here. I like the way the factory and codex work at the moment, I like being able to build what I want and when I want. Then I like being able to use what I've made, as I'm primarily the one who uses what I make. This is a sentiment I'm sure many may also have, as there's always that one thing you want to have, but nobody's made, so you make it yourself. As such, if I have an idea and want to use it, I write it up, say my clan made it, and then use it when it's approved. If tiers are added, I believe this'll restrict the freedom to do that. Granted, I believe that's the point of the tiers. You work to make bigger things that you want too. But that restriction removes part of the fun of creating something, that personal mark you have.
A personal mark on something is a large part of why many create something, so they can use it themselves. Tiers restrict making something for oneself and then using it. That said, I also believe there are two general categories of people in the factory. And this is very broad termed. Those who make things to use for themselves, and sometimes for others to use. Those who make things for others to use, and that they will also use. Adding tiers will most likely give more to the latter than the former, and add more of a grind to companies as well.
If I've misinterpreted the threads intentions, please let me know and explain. The overall idea is interesting, and stakes are always fun, but said stakes are also up to the writer. IE: you say if you take a hit or not in PvP. The same applies to factories with loss and gain. I feel that changing what we have now takes away our freedom to create as we please.
To the meat of what I'd like to say here. I like the way the factory and codex work at the moment, I like being able to build what I want and when I want. Then I like being able to use what I've made, as I'm primarily the one who uses what I make. This is a sentiment I'm sure many may also have, as there's always that one thing you want to have, but nobody's made, so you make it yourself. As such, if I have an idea and want to use it, I write it up, say my clan made it, and then use it when it's approved. If tiers are added, I believe this'll restrict the freedom to do that. Granted, I believe that's the point of the tiers. You work to make bigger things that you want too. But that restriction removes part of the fun of creating something, that personal mark you have.
A personal mark on something is a large part of why many create something, so they can use it themselves. Tiers restrict making something for oneself and then using it. That said, I also believe there are two general categories of people in the factory. And this is very broad termed. Those who make things to use for themselves, and sometimes for others to use. Those who make things for others to use, and that they will also use. Adding tiers will most likely give more to the latter than the former, and add more of a grind to companies as well.
If I've misinterpreted the threads intentions, please let me know and explain. The overall idea is interesting, and stakes are always fun, but said stakes are also up to the writer. IE: you say if you take a hit or not in PvP. The same applies to factories with loss and gain. I feel that changing what we have now takes away our freedom to create as we please.
Forged in Fire
A lot of misunderstanding still going on 
I don't want to restrict anyone really, in any sense. I'll rewrite my initial idea tomorrow and post it for feedback. For now, I cuddle with my dogs and stuff my face.
I don't want to restrict anyone really, in any sense. I'll rewrite my initial idea tomorrow and post it for feedback. For now, I cuddle with my dogs and stuff my face.D I R E C T O R
I think people are thinking in terms of restricting when it should be rewarding.
No, no company should be restricted by tiers or whatever. If anything, the current limits for companies (which are really none outside of fielding and production when it comes to really chonker ships and stations) should stay the same. However, there should be an optional track that can lead to some rewards and perks for your company. This way you don't have to participate if you don't want to, but there are also things you can actually earn that are hard to get but satisfying to do so.
A perfect example of this are SSDs. A major faction has to complete and turn in three dominions in a month to earn an SSD slot. Owning an SSD doesn't suddenly mean you win every invasion or whatnot, but it's frickin cool and fun to build. Something along the lines of that sort of idea (no, I'm not saying companies should be able to make SSDs) is what I think would be most appreciated.
No, no company should be restricted by tiers or whatever. If anything, the current limits for companies (which are really none outside of fielding and production when it comes to really chonker ships and stations) should stay the same. However, there should be an optional track that can lead to some rewards and perks for your company. This way you don't have to participate if you don't want to, but there are also things you can actually earn that are hard to get but satisfying to do so.
A perfect example of this are SSDs. A major faction has to complete and turn in three dominions in a month to earn an SSD slot. Owning an SSD doesn't suddenly mean you win every invasion or whatnot, but it's frickin cool and fun to build. Something along the lines of that sort of idea (no, I'm not saying companies should be able to make SSDs) is what I think would be most appreciated.
Beautiful, isn't she?
Let's do ittttt
Rynn Vizsla
Spawnslayer
Alban Roble
- You keep mentioning rewards and perks for your company, do you have ideas as to what those could be - or are you just saying that in the hopes of incentivizing others to get on board with the idea? Lol.I say that because there's quite a lot a company can do already, including giving themselves special treatment if they put the work in through Codex and Factory submissions. It is no different from what other factions and people have to go through already to make rewards and perks for themselves or their friends. Hell, with no official economic system whatsoever, there really isn't any rewards that could be given. Nor perks, either, as people have everything they could feasibly need. They just need to take the initiative to do what they like, rather than sugarcoating what's already there in the hopes of drawing more activity.
If you feel like it's a slog and don't enjoy the grind, arbitrary rewards and perks won't bring that spark back, nor will they get other people invested. My recommendation there is to find something else that tickles your fancy and do that for a time. Who knows, maybe the spark will return.
But, uh, companies have never been greater, imo. The sky's the limit on what they can do and people can "opt-in" to immerse themselves as much as they want. To me? That seems more than enough of a reward and a perk, especially if it's something they like or love to do.
D I R E C T O R
Rynn Vizsla
An example of a reward in my mind would be getting to produce a civilian space station at 100k in length, something like that. I'm not trying to get cool toys for my company, just trying to give examples and get people on board.
I support
Rynn Vizsla
and
Siobhan Kerrigan
's statements on the matter. There's already a lot we can do as companies and people are more than welcomed to immerse themselves and play out the company game any way they wish. There's not a need to bring anything back.
Rynn Vizsla
and
Siobhan Kerrigan
's statements on the matter. There's already a lot we can do as companies and people are more than welcomed to immerse themselves and play out the company game any way they wish. There's not a need to bring anything back.Rynn Vizsla
Spawnslayer
Alban Roble
- I'm not going to lie to you chief... that doesn't really sound like a reward to me. Say we had these goalposts implemented, and you put in the effort to reach them... only so you could add 20km to a civilian station? It sounds like more trouble than it's worth, honestly.
D I R E C T O R
Rynn Vizsla
I am literally just giving an example off of the cuff of my sleeve. If you want that example to be a 160K station, go for it. I'm just saying a perk or reward like that is what I had in mind.