LAAV/g - (Low Altitude Assault Vehicle, Gunship)

[Progflaw99]

OUT OF CHARACTER INFORMATION

Spoiler

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  Intent: To create a well armed infantry deployment platform that can provide adequate fire support in low altitudes.
  
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  Image Source: http://fractalsponge.net/?p=1652
  
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  Canon Link: N/A
  
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  Restricted Missions: N/A
  
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  Primary Source: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Low_Altitude_Assault_Transport/infantry/Legends
  

PRODUCTION INFORMATION

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  Manufacturer: Sienar Jaemus Fleet Systems | First Order Corps of Imperial Engineers
  
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  Model: LAAV/g Mk I (Low Altitude Assault Vehicle, Gunship)
  
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  Affiliation: First Order
  
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  Production: Limited
  
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  Material: Durinium Impregnated Alusteel Frame, Duraplast Lined Deck Plating, Transparisteel Viewports
  

TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS

• Classification: Infantry Support Gunship
• Length: 18.4 m
• Width: 18 m
• Height: 6.6 m
• Armament: Very High​​
  4 x Heavy Blaster Cannon Turrets (Wing Mounted)
• 2 x Dual Light Repeating Blaster Turrets (Forward, Ventral Mounted)
• 24 x Light Concussion Missile Tubes (Single Use)
• 8 x Proton Torpedo Missile Tubes (Single Use)
• 2 x Forward Facing Shieldhttp://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rampart_II_shield_generator Barrier Projectors (1 Port, 1 Starboard)

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Defenses: Very High

• Ablative Heatshieldhttp://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ablative_heatshield
• 00D-A Charged Plating Shield Systemhttp://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/00D-A_charged_plating_shield_system
• Shield Disrupting Projectorhttp://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Shield-disrupting_projector

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Squadron Count: Low

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Maneuverability Rating: Low

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Speed Rating: Very Low

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Hyperdrive Class: Very Slow: 10

STANDARD FEATURES

• Standard Engine Systems
• Standard Navigation Systems
• Standard Atmospheric Flight Systems
• Standard Encrypted Communications Suite
• Standard Sensor Package
• FLiR & NV Optics
• Standard Countermeasures
  
  Chaff/ECF Canisters
  
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  Signal Jamming
  

ADVANCED SYSTEMS

• Ablative Heatshieldhttp://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ablative_heatshield
• 00D-A Charged Plating Shield Systemhttp://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/00D-A_charged_plating_shield_system
• Shield Disrupting Projectorhttp://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Shield-disrupting_projector

Strengths:

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  Heavily Armored: Though its shields may be substandard, the heavy armor plating affixed to the exterior of the landing ship make it quite the juggernaut - most notably along its ventral and side surfaces to protect against ground fire during descent and to provide adequate cover for troops embarking/disembarking. Designed to take weapons fire, the 00D-A Charged Plating System allows for limited protection, relying more fully on its charged plating to mitigate damage.
  
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  BRRRRRRRRTTTT: Boasting a wide array of weapons, the LAAV/g can lay down withering amounts of fire on both hard and soft targets. Equipped with two large banks of single use concussion missiles and a total of eight proton torpedoes, the gunship is equipped to soften the enemy up before landing and delivering its complement of troopers to the battlefield.
  
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  Survivability: Though it carries the capability to operate with its side doors open, the LAAV/g is designed to protect those inside until the very moment they disembark. As the doors open, two forward facing shield projectors are activated, providing limited cover for the soldiers who are now exiting onto the battlefield.
  

Weaknesses:

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  Bulky: Because of its large size, the LAAV/g requires a somewhat berthy LZ if it plans on setting down. Unable to nimbly maneuver in tight spaces, it requires significant clearance if it hopes to land before disembarking its troops.
  
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  Freight Train: Once the vehicle gets going, it’s not stopping anytime soon. Sluggish controls on top of its bulk create a definite barrier to finesse when piloting the LAAV/g
  
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  Slow: Because of its increased armor and weapons, the engine systems are already taxed at full loadout. Trying to eek out a few extra kph isn’t unreasonable but the risk/reward ratio of burning out the engines usually isn’t worth it. Slower than most shuttles, this gunship knows it’s going to be a target and compensates with heavy armor and weapons systems.
  
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  Reduced Complement: Designed primarily as an infantry support gunship, the heavy punch the LAAV/g Mk I comes with a tradeoff in complement size. Though it is larger than its predecessor, the LAAT, it holds a smaller complement of soldiers within its bowels to make room for the additional weapons systems and thickened armor. This coupled with the increased thrust requirement allow only up to 15 fully kitted stormtroopers. Like anything, you might be able to squeeze in a few extra in a pinch, but it was designed for 15.
  
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  Limited Ordinance: Though it packs a meaty punch, the rocket/missile racks on the LAAV/g are non reloadable in the field and require a service facility (Or designated landing zone) to replace the modular racks. By default, each rack is equipped pre-loaded and the expended module is replaced with another fully loaded one upon return to a service location. As the rack's firing systems are aligned in series, if one rocket malfunctions or is damaged, the entire module is short circuited and will fail to operate.
  
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  Shield Disruptor: Equipped with a shield disruptor, the LAAV/g is capable of breaching most planetary shields - once. Designed as an assault vehicle, a one way trip isn't particularly out of the question. As such, a weaker shield disruptor was installed, allowing it only one use before burning out.
  
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  Low Altitude: Like its predecessor, the LAAT, the LAAV/g is capable of entering space, but was never really designed for zero g environments. Typically designed to enter the atmosphere of a planet, getting back out requires a lot more work, taxing the engines to full capacity. While exiting the atmosphere, due to the poor power distribution and required thrust, the LAAV/g's weapons systems are diminished and sometimes completely unavailable.
  

Description:

Operating primarily out of the SJAS-AAL/FO-03 Tactical Troop Transport, the First Order’s Stormtrooper Corps was missing a crucial component in their ground combat doctrine - that of close air support. Lacking a dedicated troop delivery, gunship platform, the First Order settled in on a design. Rushing it into production. Carrying a hefty price and the high quality armor and systems they weren’t able to mass produce the craft, but have eyes on creating other variants based on the same design. This, the “Gunship” model was the first to reach production however, the others plagued by design and compatibility flaws with some of the proposed features.

 

[Gir Quee]

Under Review.

 

[Gir Quee]

Armament: Very High​​ 4 x Heavy Lascannon Turrets (Wing Mounted) 2 x Dual Heavy Repeating Lascannons (Forward, Ventral Mounted) 24 x Advanced Concussion Missile Tubes (Single Use) 8 x Proton Torpedo Missile Tubes (Single Use) 2 x Forward Facing Shield Barrier Projectors (1 Port, 1 Starboard)

Heavy Lascannon Turrets

Lascannon

This submission is denied for incorporating Warhammer 40k technology.

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Ok...maybe it's not.

But on a more serious note, this is grossly overarmed. While ratings are all relative, and no-one is expecting exact gun math here, individual weapons listings can be especially in problematic with small ships. Most pilots are going to react differently to a ship shooting 8 laser cannons than two.

Consider the template example of a gunship, which also has a "Very High" armament rating:

Armament: Very High

• 2 Heavy Ion Cannons
• 1 Twin Laser Cannon Turret
• 3 Proton Torpedo Launchers (4 torpedoes each)

If we use the starfighter weapons exchange chart on the bottom of the starship template page, the template example comes out to be 12 points. In comparison, as it currently stands, the LAAV/g has 32 points. As a suggestion, you may want to consider replacing some of that ordinance with lower-powered munitions more suitable for precision ground strikes, such as an Arakyd 3t3s or a MG3 Mini-missiles. Another option might be to describe them as "light concussion missiles" and so forth. While I don't expect this to get to exactly 12 points, it should be in the general vicinity to keep some sort of coherence for writing purposes.

2 x Forward Facing Shield Barrier Projectors (1 Port, 1 Starboard)

As a suggestion, I'd consider looking at the KL-44 Commander Shield Projector or a pair of Rampart II Shield Generators.

Reduced Complement: Designed primarily as an infantry support gunship, the heavy punch the LAAV/g Mk I comes with a tradeoff in complement size. Though it is larger than its predecessor, the LAAT, it holds a smaller complement of soldiers within its bowels to make room for the additional weapons systems and thickened armor. This coupled with the increased thrust requirement allow only up to 20 fully kitted stormtroopers. Like anything, you might be able to squeeze in a few extra in a pinch, but it was designed for 20.

I'd remove this from the weaknesses section. This seems more like a limitation of a strength to me rather than a true weakness. Most "starfighters" don't carry passengers at all under our system. Their presence at all is an anomaly and is actually a strength. This is why the light freighter template example has passengers and cargo listed under its "advanced systems". From a canon perspective, the Lambda-class shuttle is also roughly the same size and also carries around the same amount of passengers.

Limited Ordinance: Though it packs a meaty punch, the rocket/missile racks on the LAAV/g are non reloadable in the field and require a service facility (Or designated landing zone) to replace the modular racks. By default, each rack is equipped pre-loaded and the expended module is replaced with another fully loaded one upon return to a service location.

I'd also remove this from the weaknesses. This is applicable to pretty much every warhead equipped starfighter and small starship, at least for practical RP purposes.

Shield Disrupting Projector

This should probably be added to the "Strengths" section. Additionally, I would like to see some additional detail of it within the description itself, particularly since it is not common or well-defined technology. Does this allow the LAAV/g to penetrate through shield barriers itself (like a planetary shield)? Or is it more to better facilitate assaults by its troops (like opening up a gap in a shield for its troops to go though?

 

[Progflaw99]

Adjusted to Light Concussion Missiles, modified shield projectors.

Modified to Light Repeating Blaster cannons on fore weapons.

As far as ratings, this is why it is "Very High" in armament, additionally, why the other ratings have been dropped accordingly to Very Low/Very Slow.

I'd remove this from the weaknesses section. This seems more like a limitation of a strength to me rather than a true weakness. Most "starfighters" don't carry passengers at all under our system. Their presence at all is an anomaly and is actually a strength. This is why the light freighter template example has passengers and cargo listed under its "advanced systems". From a canon perspective, the Lambda-class shuttle is also roughly the same size and also carries around the same amount of passengers.

This I think would be more valid if this were a U-Wing or a dedicated starfighter. As is, it is a dropship/gunship. Looking at the AAL (Canon), it has a complement of 20 (though the Chaos version has a capacity of 30. Even though previous submissions aren't relevant to the judging of a submission, I wanted to reference it as far as scaling.) If I drop the capacity to say, 12 or 15, would that be more agreeable as it's a dual purpose vessel? Even though it fits into the starfighter category, this is decidedly not a starfighter.

Added weakness regarding the modules - aligned in series, should one missile malfunction or the pod be damaged, the entire bank of weapons is disabled.

Also added a few additional weaknesses, focusing on the atmospheric focus of this gunship/dropship.

[member="Gir Quee"]

 

[Gir Quee]

8 x Proton Torpedo Missile Tubes (Single Use)

If you'll make these light as well (or halve them), we'll be close enough.

This I think would be more valid if this were a U-Wing or a dedicated starfighter. As is, it is a dropship/gunship. Looking at the AAL (Canon), it has a complement of 20 (though the Chaos version has a capacity of 30. Even though previous submissions aren't relevant to the judging of a submission, I wanted to reference it as far as scaling.) If I drop the capacity to say, 12 or 15, would that be more agreeable as it's a dual purpose vessel? Even though it fits into the starfighter category, this is decidedly not a starfighter.

We don't have hard and fast rules about passenger complements, and it's one of those gray areas right now.

To that end, it's our discretion if we think it's unreasonable or unbalanced. My main concern with this submission is not only is it a decent transport, but it's exceptionally well-armed.

That being said, as I see it, I feel that you've already partially compensated for the troop complement by having a much lower hyperdrive than standard. This typically doesn't effect RP much, but neither does having a small troop complement usually. This would not be true for me if this carried more troops.

As far as precedents are concerned, small craft are everywhere, especially from canon sources. There's nothing wrong with having so many troopers for this size of vehicle. If I were going to push an example in favor of more troops for this, I'd choose a DX-9 Transport myself, but there are plenty of other examples that move less people and are larger (Mneffe-class Shuttle) or are similar in carrying capacity and size but less combat capable (Svelte-class Shuttle).

So short version is that I think the troop count is fine as it is, but it just shouldn't be listed as a weakness.

EDIT: I was thinking about this a bit more when a possible scenario came to my head.

If this ship can pass through shields, what is to stop it from passing through shields, and then going directly to the shield generator and destroying it with all of its onboard ordinance?

 

[Progflaw99]

If you'll make these light as well (or halve them), we'll be close enough.

See: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Low_Altitude_Assault_Transport/infantry/Legends

As you'll see here, 8 proton torpedoes for a gunship/dropship fulfilling this role is not unusual, in fact it could be argued that it is under armed given the canon example. The LAAT, the direct (in this case) predecessor of the LAAV/g, holds up to 60 missiles in addition to air to air rockets. Some even equipped with Droid Busters. Given that the ratings are balanced by being very slow, and very un-maneuverable I'm not sure why this seems to be a hinging point.

Considering the canon variant can carry twice the number of soldiers into the field, is very agile and maneuverable, and more heavily armed than the LAAV being submitted, I think that a halved troop complement is just as valid as any other weakness.

EDIT: I was thinking about this a bit more when a possible scenario came to my head. If this ship can pass through shields, what is to stop it from passing through shields, and then going directly to the shield generator and destroying it with all of its onboard ordinance?

So - I'm not sure how to phrase this but I will attempt as tactfully as I can. Firstly, what/how a vessel behaves in RP while the balancing is a function of the Factory, the scenario you've described is no different than the vast number of encounters we've seen where people magically bypass shields, board vessels, "sneak" into secured facilities. At that point it's not the ratings or the presence of a shield disruptor that are the issue, it's the peopel RPing it. Given that those encounters fall into the realms of RPJ's, I'm not sure the scenario is relevant to the factory. Especially as this is not mass produced. The primary function of the shield disruptor is to allow deployment from space to a shielded surface such as a city shield or some such - to facilitate landing forces. I've also added that it's a one shot system.

Additionally regarding the scenario you've described:

1. Point Defense Systems
2. Fighter Support
3. Offensive Weapons Batteries
4. Any number of other Roleplay opportunities. The Ship is slow, designed for atmosphere, making a suicide run on another space vessel isn't it's primary function. But that falls again into RPJ territory if something like that were attempted.

[member="Gir Quee"]

 

[Gir Quee]

As you'll see here, 8 proton torpedoes for a gunship/dropship fulfilling this role is not unusual, in fact it could be argued that it is under armed given the canon example. The LAAT, the direct (in this case) predecessor of the LAAV/g, holds up to 60 missiles in addition to air to air rockets. Some even equipped with Droid Busters. Given that the ratings are balanced by being very slow, and very un-maneuverable I'm not sure why this seems to be a hinging point. Considering the canon variant can carry twice the number of soldiers into the field, is very agile and maneuverable, and more heavily armed than the LAAV being submitted, I think that a halved troop complement is just as valid as any other weakness.

Canon material is not infallible precedence in the Factory.

There are some canon technologies that are outright banned in the factory, and others that are restricted.

It sounds obvious, but the reason is gameplay balance. Gameplay balance will trump canon precedence, especially since canon material is inconsistent. You could out the LAAT is what you think the precedence could be, and I could point out Grek-class Troop Shuttle or Aegis-class Combat Shuttle as what I think it should be (or if I really want to be a jerk, the aforementioned Mneffe-class Shuttle). This is cherrypicking. Because canon material isn't consistent, we have templates here to impartially come up with what is acceptable.

So let's talk about armament and template, because this seems to be a sticking point between us.

All of the template example armament ratings have a clear, linear correlation between their rating, and the gun count(value) per the rating. That value is "2" per each rating. Thus, your "average" armament starfighter has "8" points to buy weapons with, while your "moderate" armament starfighter has "10" points to buy with, and so forth. I could theoretically expect this submission (with a very high armament rating) to have exactly "14" points of weaponry.

Now, you could arguably make a rules-lawyering case for following that guide strictly to the "T", or allowing some wiggle room (which I think is more in the spirit of the use of ratings). I generally do allow some wriggle room (a laser cannon or two), but I generally also expect it to be pretty close for consistency and equality between different submissions. But this doesn't take into the account the individual characteristics of the weapons themselves. For example, I'm not really likely going to count that single pintle-mounted T-21 Light Repeating blaster as a weapon for this purpose (it's practically useless against other vehicles), nor I am going to consider a bunch, short-ranged rocket pods as being equivalent to a normal warhead launcher. A small flamethrower is another good example of something I might not count towards the armament.

I think you could even make an argument for even less strict interpretation if this clearly was a so-called "one trick pony", that really only excelled in providing ground support. I do not think that this is the case for this sub though, because as I've already mentioned, this is also a transport, which in and of itself is an "advanced system" based on the template example. And per that template field, "Stealth technology and other advanced systems may require other weaknesses or reduced ratings for balance".

I'm not asking you to make a concession to carry troops, but I do not expect this to be pushed as a weakness.

With that said, please reduce the armament on this to be close to "14". I will not count certain weapons as going towards that count (like the light repeating blasters, which seem to be like the T-21 example previously mentioned). If you're looking for something like the LAAT's mass driver missiles, I recommend looking at PLX-2Ms. I'd probably consider 2 of those launchers to be equivalent to an average warhead launcher.

So - I'm not sure how to phrase this but I will attempt as tactfully as I can. Firstly, what/how a vessel behaves in RP while the balancing is a function of the Factory, the scenario you've described is no different than the vast number of encounters we've seen where people magically bypass shields, board vessels, "sneak" into secured facilities. At that point it's not the ratings or the presence of a shield disruptor that are the issue, it's the peopel RPing it. Given that those encounters fall into the realms of RPJ's, I'm not sure the scenario is relevant to the factory. Especially as this is not mass produced. The primary function of the shield disruptor is to allow deployment from space to a shielded surface such as a city shield or some such - to facilitate landing forces. I've also added that it's a one shot system. Additionally regarding the scenario you've described: 1. Point Defense Systems 2. Fighter Support 3. Offensive Weapons Batteries 4. Any number of other Roleplay opportunities. The Ship is slow, designed for atmosphere, making a suicide run on another space vessel isn't it's primary function. But that falls again into RPJ territory if something like that were attempted.

Shield Disruptors (and their very closely related cousins, individual field disruptors) are not unheard of technology to see on starships. They are not typically this powerful though, and usually come with caveats. Consider this example, which allows limited penetration of already weakened capital ship grade shields. There are several examples (here and here) where they can penetrate planetary shielding, but cannot have their own shields active during this time. Both of those designs are also clearly not direct combat craft in the conventional sense either.

I'll stand aside and let the RPJ who comes up after me to decide if this is kosher, but like those previous two examples, I would like to see a caveat to using this besides "single-use".

 

[Progflaw99]

This submission may be archived at the convenience of factory staff.

 

[Gir Quee]

Moved to Factory Archives - If you want to remove from the archives, please feel free to tag [member="Jamie Pyne"], [member="Nadja Keto"], or [member="Taryc Ap'Irae"]