Invasion of Roche OOC [GR vs Mandos]

[Mr. OOC]

[member="Anija Betna"]
Joining on the Republic side as a roamer.

 

[Gir Quee]

[member="Gir Quee"], [member="Reshmar"], [member="Abigail Selonna"], [member="James Justice"]

It just occurred to me that this is about to get complicated. We're about to fight in an asteroid field where nobody's viewpoint of where eachother are is the same as any of the other four viewpoints, and that's not even including the rocks.

Anyone else in favor of adding a map? It doesn't have to be accurate or to scale... but it would at least give people an idea of how close they are to one another. And it helps uncomplicated things if formations are splitting up and wandering around the asteroids.

(Note; I suck at map making. So if the vote is in favor of, then we'd need to grab someone that can make us a Hex Map. *cough* [member="Valiens Nantaris"] *cough*)

Maps are good. I'm in agreement with Valiens making the map, if he's willing.

 

[Ashin Varanin]

I'm in agreement with Valiens making the map, if he's willing.

Safe bet. Nothing but fleeting maps gets [member="Valiens Nantaris"] that willing, not even a pair of shapely pastel lekku.

 

[Ali Hadrix]

[member="Mantic Dorn"], [member="Anija Betna"]

I know I proposed this a few times in the negotiations and it was never addressed fully, but since we've already got so many third parties running around in the thread, can we recruit someone to roleplay on behalf of the Verpine government?

Playing the political game isn't much fun when the opposition isn't leaving much room for continue rebuttle. Ali's portrail of the locals is... very one-sided.

Edit:
Dont get me wrong. I get the viewpoint of "it's our planet, we control the government." But it's more fun to debate with someone when you're both having to try equally hard to convince someone to believe you. I honestly didn't think it would come upn but I'd really like to see this play out with a third party RPing the Verpine, or nobody doing it.


Edit2: chose my words a bit more politely.

You are free to role play random individuals at your leisure, but as far as representing the population, that is our place, not a third party's I feel.

Especially considering the Verpine population typically distinguishes two forms of their government, one being the Verpine Hive of consensus-based decision making, writing the consensus majority makes most sense for the Republic. I do not wish us to relinquish that right.

The true narrative of this story as established by RP is that the Republic gained Roche's membership after helping thwart a pirate attack and fended off a horde of zombies commanded by a dark force user.

It's not the narrative at all that we're some how muscling our way into these people's lives, so one-sided would be YOUR portrayal to make it seem so.
To write the Verpine as confused by the Mando claims, coupled with their working wholly with the Republic in the face of a Mando invasion force showing up out of the blue, is entirely congruent to the story.

The Mando history with the Verpine, however, is not forgotten by me, which is why I ensured the Verpine would not forget their neighbors.
But as far as your Mando's are concerned, they are invaders.

It's "white-knight syndrome" to assume that because YOU think a government is bad, that the local population will think the same. The Verpine really have no reason to believe that, so it would be false to give you that power.

If you want to RP representatives of your companies, that's different; those corporations are yours.

However, it will be difficult to write about the Republic taking over your companies and rights when we haven't done anything aside from show up to civilian living areas and help temporarily evacuate them in the face of an encroaching Mando invasion force.

 

[Arrbi Betna]

[member="Ali Hadrix"]
*hands a shovel, goes back to writing*

 

[Miss Blonde]

[member="Arrbi Betna"]

Do you distribute spades as well? I must tend to my revenge garden with only the highest quality of gardening equipment.

 

[Arrbi Betna]

[member="Miss Blonde"]
I distribute many kinds of gardening equipment, including but not limited to: spades, shovels, rakes, trowels, and hoes.

For more information, please dial the Mando Hotline at 1-800-MANDOS

 

[Miss Blonde]

[member="Arrbi Betna"]

Ha, you said hoes.

 

[Tydeus of Tion]

It's "white-knight syndrome"

 

[Arrbi Betna]

[member="Miss Blonde"]

 

[Gir Quee]

[member="Mantic Dorn"], [member="Anija Betna"]

I know I proposed this a few times in the negotiations and it was never addressed fully, but since we've already got so many third parties running around in the thread, can we recruit someone to roleplay on behalf of the Verpine government?

Playing the political game isn't much fun when the opposition isn't leaving much room for continue rebuttle. Ali's portrail of the locals is... very one-sided.

Edit:
Dont get me wrong. I get the viewpoint of "it's our planet, we control the government." But it's more fun to debate with someone when you're both having to try equally hard to convince someone to believe you. I honestly didn't think it would come upn but I'd really like to see this play out with a third party RPing the Verpine, or nobody doing it.


Edit2: chose my words a bit more politely.

As Ali reiterated, this isn't likely.

I could even make the case of going beyond the Republic's control of the Verpine right now to the Republic controlling the local Mandos living in the Belt as well. If they are permanent inhabitants, then they are likely lawful Republic citizens as well. I think Republic writers would be within their OOC rights to RP mandalorians that have been living in the belts as well, unless specific NPCs have been specifically detailed in the past.


However, because none of this was agreed upon in the invasion, and since this is supposed to be a PVP-based invasion, I think it might be best if this is an area that is best left alone in general. But that's just my personal opinion.

 

[Captain Larraq]

You are free to role play random individuals at your leisure, but as far as representing the population, that is our place, not a third party's I feel.

Especially considering the Verpine population typically distinguishes two forms of their government, one being the Verpine Hive of consensus-based decision making, writing the consensus majority makes most sense for the Republic. I do not wish us to relinquish that right.

The true narrative of this story as established by RP is that the Republic gained Roche's membership after helping thwart a pirate attack and fended off a horde of zombies commanded by a dark force user.

It's not the narrative at all that we're some how muscling our way into these people's lives, so one-sided would be YOUR portrayal to make it seem so.
To write the Verpine as confused by the Mando claims, coupled with their working wholly with the Republic in the face of a Mando invasion force showing up out of the blue, is entirely congruent to the story.

The Mando history with the Verpine, however, is not forgotten by me, which is why I ensured the Verpine would not forget their neighbors.
But as far as your Mando's are concerned, they are invaders.

It's "white-knight syndrome" to assume that because YOU think a government is bad, that the local population will think the same. The Verpine really have no reason to believe that, so it would be false to give you that power.

If you want to RP representatives of your companies, that's different; those corporations are yours.

However, it will be difficult to write about the Republic taking over your companies and rights when we haven't done anything aside from show up to civilian living areas and help temporarily evacuate them in the face of an encroaching Mando invasion force.

I feel that you are failing to take into account SW Canon and SW Chaos Canon events and histories.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Verpine

During the Second Galactic Civil War, the Verpine accused the people of Murkhana of breaking trade agreements by producing technology similar to theirs. They signed a non-aggression pact with the Mandalorians because of their fear that the Mandalorians would expand their borders once again and invade Verpine territory. The treaty was simple: the Mandalorians would supply their best export, military strength, while the Verpines would supply defense technology and quality control.[18]
This agreement was later put to the test when Imperial Remnant forces allied with Darth Caedus attacked the Verpine's home system in an attempt to gain control of their technology. The Mandalorians rushed to their aid and, with the help of Jedi Jaina Solo, the Mandalorians fought to defend the system.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Roche_asteroid_field

In the years leading to the Second Galactic Civil War, Roche was involved in a significant commercial dispute with the planet Murkhana. The Verpine accused Murkhana of counterfeiting Verpine technology. To solve the problem, Roche agreed to a trade agreement in 40 ABY with the powerful Mandalorians for protection services in exchange for technological enhancements. When the war erupted between the Galactic Alliance and the Confederation, Roche remained neutral.[4] However, the system was invaded by the Imperial Remnant shortly after, but the Mandalorians honored their agreement and came to the Verpine's aid.

There there is the introduction of Roche to the SW Chaos universe/map.
Flashpoint: Roche.
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/4614-flashpoint-roche/

Long and short? Everyone fought for Roche. The Mandalorians abandoned their chance to hold the system in favor of guaranteeing that the Sith could not gain control of the system, allowing for a Republic victory. (or so I have been told) For a considerable amount of time after that event, the Roche system was jointly held by the Republic and the Mandalorians. That changed only after the fall of the Sith Empire and the Republic's unchecked expansion into their former territory. Space that the Mandalorians felt was theirs to conquer at their leisure. As Republic control of the map spread, including the Republic taking full control of Roche, the Mandalorians retaliated by sending a fleet to Coruscant and demanding open negotiations while aiming nuclear missiles at the planet.



The point is... You may be dating the Hive Queen for the moment, but she's been hopping between the blue and orange bed for centuries. IC, the political caste, soldier caste, and worker caste would be 50/50 on the decision to side with the Republic or the Mandalorians and should be roleplayed as such.

Your "true narrative" is an injustice to the situation and makes for a poor roleplaying environment. It also pulls away from the establishment of a fair and balanced roleplay environment for both sides.

You write for the Republic Soldiers. We'll write for the Mandalorian Soldiers.

I've never seen an invasion in which one side dictates the political views of the entire planetary population as you have.
The Verpine Government should either be written by a neutral third party, or not at all.

 

[Ali Hadrix]

That's certainly not the clinical definition by any means. But it conveys the idea adequately; attempting to rescue someone who does not need rescuing.

 

[Mr. OOC]

[member="Captain Larraq"]
You forgot recent events in which I and others successfully rescued the Verpine queen from a Sith and stopped a horde of zombies.

 

[Captain Larraq]

However, because none of this was agreed upon in the invasion, and since this is supposed to be a PVP-based invasion, I think it might be best if this is an area that is best left alone in general. But that's just my personal opinion.

PVP has a broad definition. We're not just talking about player character vs player character duels here. We're including naval actions, squadron dogfighting, NPC unit combat, exc. Any situation in which one character is pit against another character is PVP. That includes political negotiations.

And, as was covered in the negotiations, both sides agreed that writers utilizing NPC's should restrict themselves to a number of NPC's that is appropriately balanced against the number of NPC's their opposition controls.

Aka; dictating total control of the Verpine Government violates the agreement between faction leaders to keep things fair and balanced between both sides.

 

[Ali Hadrix]

I feel that you are failing to take into account SW Canon and SW Chaos Canon events and histories.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Verpine

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Roche_asteroid_field


There there is the introduction of Roche to the SW Chaos universe/map.
Flashpoint: Roche.
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/4614-flashpoint-roche/

Long and short? Everyone fought for Roche. The Mandalorians abandoned their chance to hold the system in favor of guaranteeing that the Sith could not gain control of the system, allowing for a Republic victory. (or so I have been told) For a considerable amount of time after that event, the Roche system was jointly held by the Republic and the Mandalorians. That changed only after the fall of the Sith Empire and the Republic's unchecked expansion into their former territory. Space that the Mandalorians felt was theirs to conquer at their leisure. As Republic control of the map spread, including the Republic taking full control of Roche, the Mandalorians retaliated by sending a fleet to Coruscant and demanding open negotiations while aiming nuclear missiles at the planet.



The point is... You may be dating the Hive Queen for the moment, but she's been hopping between the blue and orange bed for centuries. IC, the political caste, soldier caste, and worker caste would be 50/50 on the decision to side with the Republic or the Mandalorians and should be roleplayed as such.

Your "true narrative" is an injustice to the situation and makes for a poor roleplaying environment. It also pulls away from the establishment of a fair and balanced roleplay environment for both sides.

You write for the Republic Soldiers. We'll write for the Mandalorian Soldiers.

I've never seen an invasion in which one side dictates the political views of the entire planetary population as you have.
The Verpine Government should either be written by a neutral third party, or not at all.

1) You have cited IC sources that are 800 years old. They are irrelevant by this point, which was the spirit of placing the site's events this far into the future.

2) Roche is our system. It is ours to write. This cannot be rightly challenged by any rule or precedent that I am aware of existing on this site. It is akin to using third parties to determine our defenses, writing our soldiers, as far as I'm concerned.

3) You came to us with a half-cocked story that didn't make any sense. I'm doing what I can to make the best of that. Now how I wrote the Verpine people fairly moderately. They're not denouncing you, they are simply opting to evacuate with the people they recently joined who showed up first and said "There's an ARMY of Mando's at the door and there's gonna be a fight, you need to get to safety!"

If you want to take the issue to an RPJ, fine with me, but unless my fellow Republic writers have anything to add, I'll be continuing writing as such.

 

[Arage Bao]

[member="Ali Hadrix"]

Point is moot. FAs and RPJ are already in discussion.

Sidepoint: that thread ain't 800 years ago ICly. Try more like... maybe two decades? Something like that. It's still part of the current Chaos Canon timeline.

 

[Arrbi Betna]

[member="Ali Hadrix"] [member="Captain Larraq"] [member="Gir Quee"]
The issue in question is under discussion between the FAs of both sides. Lets refrain from any more back and forth in the OOC until this is sorted.

 

[Onrai]

And here's how you know an invasion's a mess - when the OOC is over four times as large as the invasion thread itself.

 

[Katalyn]

[member="Vitor Imperieuse"] hay not every part is just one minor bit