Selena Halcyon
Jedi Master
Watch the Mortis Trilogy in Clone Wars. Completely explains how the prophecy was meant to be understood. It then explains how Anakin actually rejects his role as the Chosen One.
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Episode VII: What was the point of restoring balance to the Force?
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[member="Wolf"]
The balance was never restored. That was Anakin's job and he decided against it. Unless everyone just looks at the clone wars and laughs, ignoring it.
EDIT: Kark it all [member="Selena Halcyon"] beat me to it.
The balance was never restored. That was Anakin's job and he decided against it. Unless everyone just looks at the clone wars and laughs, ignoring it.
EDIT: Kark it all [member="Selena Halcyon"] beat me to it.
Wolf
Well-Known Member
[member="Davin Skirata"]
The Clone Wars are weird cartoon things therefore = invalid.
The Clone Wars are weird cartoon things therefore = invalid.
Selena Halcyon
Jedi Master
Which would be silly to do given that Clone Wars is one of the better Star Wars things to ever come out. Also has Lucas' direct hand involved in it. And it is the only thing to be carried over into current canon and therefore is not legends like everything else.
Wolf
Well-Known Member
[member="Connor Harrison"]
True, I can imagine Lucas now...
"The prophecy was talking about the net midi-chlorian change of the galaxy equalling zero. That was achieved and now the net midi-chlorian change remains zero forever, though that doesn't stop the Sith coming back. It's all just science really."
True, I can imagine Lucas now...
"The prophecy was talking about the net midi-chlorian change of the galaxy equalling zero. That was achieved and now the net midi-chlorian change remains zero forever, though that doesn't stop the Sith coming back. It's all just science really."
Ludolf Vaas
"Trust me"
The simple answer is that the prophecy has never really made sense.
Turning Darth Vader into Space Jesus was one of the most damning effects of the prequels. The problem is that Darth Vader, while a main character, was never that important within the universe of the original trilogy. When you break it down, he was just a faceless enforcer of the Empire. The guy Palpatine sent out to do his dirty work when the situation demanded it. He was a small part of a larger story. Then the prequels came around and tried to make him some kind of living embodiment of a thousand year old prophecy and the crux upon which everything hinged.
It simply doesn't work because this was all retroactive, after the original trilogy had already established his character. The prophecy played absolutely zero role in the original movies (because it didn't exist yet) and to make matters worse, it was never properly explained in the prequels, only vaguely hinted at with some cryptic dialogue here and there. So the only way to rationalize it is to come up with weird explanations, like above.
"He murdered all the Jedi, but then ended up fulfilling the prophecy because he killed himself and Palpatine"
"The Force is only ever in balance when neither side rules over the other"
etc. etc. They are all rather weak explanations to make up for the fact that the prophecy itself was a major weak point of the plot of Star Wars. I hope it is never mentioned again in the new films.
Turning Darth Vader into Space Jesus was one of the most damning effects of the prequels. The problem is that Darth Vader, while a main character, was never that important within the universe of the original trilogy. When you break it down, he was just a faceless enforcer of the Empire. The guy Palpatine sent out to do his dirty work when the situation demanded it. He was a small part of a larger story. Then the prequels came around and tried to make him some kind of living embodiment of a thousand year old prophecy and the crux upon which everything hinged.
It simply doesn't work because this was all retroactive, after the original trilogy had already established his character. The prophecy played absolutely zero role in the original movies (because it didn't exist yet) and to make matters worse, it was never properly explained in the prequels, only vaguely hinted at with some cryptic dialogue here and there. So the only way to rationalize it is to come up with weird explanations, like above.
"He murdered all the Jedi, but then ended up fulfilling the prophecy because he killed himself and Palpatine"
"The Force is only ever in balance when neither side rules over the other"
etc. etc. They are all rather weak explanations to make up for the fact that the prophecy itself was a major weak point of the plot of Star Wars. I hope it is never mentioned again in the new films.
Selena Halcyon
Jedi Master
It won't be because the Clone Wars already answered the question...
The Laughing Magickian
Well, this story is supposed to be representative of the individual human experience. Analyzing a lot of this content from the perspective of someone in the Star Wars universe rather than from someone in ours is going to lead to a broken reading.
The purpose of the midichlorians was to establish that the Light vs. Darkside Jedi battle is going on at a subatomic level, just as it is one readily perceivable by human senses, and likely even on levels far greater than that. "Bringing balance to the Force" is finding personal harmony in the Universe, and freeing yourself from the wheel of War, Sex, and Death and awakening to an authentic life. Even just bringing the flicker of peace following the collapse of the Empire would be bringing balance to the Force. Even finding a personal peace to the rage in his heart present since the death of his mother would have been bringing balance, as well.
The Force also exists outside time. The presence of a Chosen One likely doesn't occur in any singular instance in Time, but is instead, introduced to the whole of the Timeline backwards, forwards, side to side, as a recurring archetype. I think some of the struggle in understanding the story comes from the seeming preference of analyzing the work from a Mosaic Christian vantage.
The purpose of the midichlorians was to establish that the Light vs. Darkside Jedi battle is going on at a subatomic level, just as it is one readily perceivable by human senses, and likely even on levels far greater than that. "Bringing balance to the Force" is finding personal harmony in the Universe, and freeing yourself from the wheel of War, Sex, and Death and awakening to an authentic life. Even just bringing the flicker of peace following the collapse of the Empire would be bringing balance to the Force. Even finding a personal peace to the rage in his heart present since the death of his mother would have been bringing balance, as well.
The Force also exists outside time. The presence of a Chosen One likely doesn't occur in any singular instance in Time, but is instead, introduced to the whole of the Timeline backwards, forwards, side to side, as a recurring archetype. I think some of the struggle in understanding the story comes from the seeming preference of analyzing the work from a Mosaic Christian vantage.
Wolf
Well-Known Member
[member="Selena Halcyon"]
Tell us tell us. (Or provide a link maybe)
Tell us tell us. (Or provide a link maybe)
Ludolf Vaas
"Trust me"
The movies are what counts. It should have been answered there.
Wolf
Well-Known Member
[member="Tefka"]
That's a good point.
[member="Jyn Sol"]
Another good point, with regards to the nature of prophecies themselves. Anyhow, I blame George Lucas for being silly.
That's a good point.
[member="Jyn Sol"]
Another good point, with regards to the nature of prophecies themselves. Anyhow, I blame George Lucas for being silly.
Selena Halcyon
Jedi Master
Fine. Then have it be known that spoilers are incoming. However, the episode has been out for four years so it seems a little silly to be super worried about it. The first of a three part seriesin the Clone Wars was titled: Overlords. Essentially Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Ahsoka get sucked into a massive monolith in space. Inside of it are three entities known as the Father, Son and Daughter. The Father plays the role of a balancing act trying to keep his daughter (the manifestation of the lightside) and his son (the manifestation of the darkside) from resting too much power from the other. Their power directly effects the landscape of the world, and the implication is that potentially even beyond the monolith though in different ways. The father is growing old though and Anakin is supposed to take his place as the one who balances these two powerful entities (which in the first episode he demonstrate the ability to do).
Things get weird when the son has some special dagger capable of killing the entites. He ends up killing the daughter when he wanted to kill the father. This starts a whole crazy chain of events Ahsoka briefly is a darksider. Anakin ends up going to the darkside for a time as well but it is once again in a quest to save everything else. In the end the Father cleanses Anakin and wipes his memory somewhat (the Son used future events to tempt him such as the fate of Padme). The Father dies which for some reason allows the Son to be killed by Anakin. Then they end up out of the Monolith and all is good in the universe because the balance was maintained. I recommend watching it. I believe it was in season 3.
Also, Ludolf Vaas, I'm inclined to agree with you that ideally it would be answered there. However, the answer we have is the answer we have.
Things get weird when the son has some special dagger capable of killing the entites. He ends up killing the daughter when he wanted to kill the father. This starts a whole crazy chain of events Ahsoka briefly is a darksider. Anakin ends up going to the darkside for a time as well but it is once again in a quest to save everything else. In the end the Father cleanses Anakin and wipes his memory somewhat (the Son used future events to tempt him such as the fate of Padme). The Father dies which for some reason allows the Son to be killed by Anakin. Then they end up out of the Monolith and all is good in the universe because the balance was maintained. I recommend watching it. I believe it was in season 3.
Also, Ludolf Vaas, I'm inclined to agree with you that ideally it would be answered there. However, the answer we have is the answer we have.
Alan
Blessed are the peacemakers
In an interview, Lucas compared the difference between the light and dark sides as being a symbiotic relationship and a cancer. A symbiotic relationship is one which benefits both parties and in which neither is harmed, whereas a cancer takes without giving back, eventually causing the death of both parties.[13] However, this was contradicted by the Mortis arc from Star Wars: The Clone Wars, where the Father specifically states that the Chosen One is supposed to tame both the Light Side and the Dark Side and is supposed to replace the Father upon his death, with the implication that too much of the Light Side would have disastrous implications for the Galaxy at large.[3] George Lucas, in the commentary for Star Wars: The Clone Wars: The Complete Season Three, also indicated that the concept of bringing balance to the Force involved keeping the selfless (which he referred to as the light side) and the selfish (referred to by him as the dark side) in check.[14]
dark side is cancer gg sith
dark side is cancer gg sith
Wolf
Well-Known Member
[member="Tracyn"]
So basically George Lucas changed his mind cos he's annoying like that.
So basically George Lucas changed his mind cos he's annoying like that.
Jsc
Disney's Princess
[member="Wolf"]
One of the best things about writing too is that it can be an evolution. Plot points change over time. Like charcoal or clay, you add and subtract many times before the final image emerges. George Lucas and his imagination style are much the same. Lucas starts going in one direction, then changes his mind and goes the other. Star Wars, like Art. It's changeable. mailable, and evolutionary. Collaboration with other writers, directors, and company board room meetings can also create wild brainstorming sessions too. Wild amalgamations arise. Confetti-filled stories, cover-ups, and perhaps just general shrugs which then go into production as something completely new. Star Wars has an amazing history of retcons, rewrites, plot-holes, and loop-de-loops. Heck, just think of our own writing on this website. One day our characters are here then the next, they are over there. You can't plan this stuff. You can't control this. Aliens! Aliens! It's spontaneous fun spurting spokes of plot spunk all over the spotty spots. Sportingly, of course. And, naturally, we deal with the plot holes, (and our character sheets,) much later.
Ahem. My point is, taken from a writer's perspective, you are going to find a ba'zillion types of stuff like this in the Star Wars genre if you skim just about anything hard enough. ...Meh. Try not to let it go to your head.
One of the best things about writing too is that it can be an evolution. Plot points change over time. Like charcoal or clay, you add and subtract many times before the final image emerges. George Lucas and his imagination style are much the same. Lucas starts going in one direction, then changes his mind and goes the other. Star Wars, like Art. It's changeable. mailable, and evolutionary. Collaboration with other writers, directors, and company board room meetings can also create wild brainstorming sessions too. Wild amalgamations arise. Confetti-filled stories, cover-ups, and perhaps just general shrugs which then go into production as something completely new. Star Wars has an amazing history of retcons, rewrites, plot-holes, and loop-de-loops. Heck, just think of our own writing on this website. One day our characters are here then the next, they are over there. You can't plan this stuff. You can't control this. Aliens! Aliens! It's spontaneous fun spurting spokes of plot spunk all over the spotty spots. Sportingly, of course. And, naturally, we deal with the plot holes, (and our character sheets,) much later.
Ahem. My point is, taken from a writer's perspective, you are going to find a ba'zillion types of stuff like this in the Star Wars genre if you skim just about anything hard enough. ...Meh. Try not to let it go to your head.
Ludolf Vaas
"Trust me"
Not even George Lucas knows what George Lucas is saying.Wolf said:
Selena Halcyon
Jedi Master
Well markedly less if you ignore legends as I am joyfully doing, [member="Jay Scott Clark"].Jay Scott Clark said:
[member="Nezuel"] Prefer what you will at some level it is moot because canon differs.Nezuel said:
Wolf
Well-Known Member
[member="Selena Halcyon"]
I actually prefer the mystery of not knowing as opposed to that explanation, regardless of how canon it may be (thanks for the explanation though).
I actually prefer the mystery of not knowing as opposed to that explanation, regardless of how canon it may be (thanks for the explanation though).
Sabena Shai
Character
I think one should look to the title: The Force Awakens. (or reawakens?)
Anakin pretty much brought everything back to zero. There's no Jedi or Sith. I guess one could say he succeeded in taming the light and dark like the Mortis Trilogy suggests his true purpose was.
If the leaks hold true (which they have so far),
So things start over again in this movie. And the Force Awakens.
Anakin pretty much brought everything back to zero. There's no Jedi or Sith. I guess one could say he succeeded in taming the light and dark like the Mortis Trilogy suggests his true purpose was.
If the leaks hold true (which they have so far),
Luke never restarted the Jedi Order
So things start over again in this movie. And the Force Awakens.