Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos

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Defining Dark Jedi

From the wikia:

Dark Jedi, also known as "Fallen" Jedi, were Force-sensitives, frequently former Jedi, who chose to deny the light side of the Forceand/or follow the dark side. Although "Dark Jedi" originally referred to a Jedi who had fallen to the dark side, it could also refer to uninitiated Force-sensitives who received no Jedi training but began their careers under another Dark Jedi. Others were simply dark-side users who did not follow the teachings of the Sith or other dark side organizations. In some cases, Dark Jedi also included "artificial" Force-sensitives who served the dark side, such as the Reborn and the Shadowtroopers.
Dark Jedi are Jedi who frequent the dark side of the Force. They havn't been trained in the way of the Sith, as the Sith are a culture of dark side users. This is my interpretation. It seems like a lot of people view leaving the Jedi of the Republic as a reason to change their titles from "Jedi" to "Dark Jedi" while still remaining Jedi, though this is just an opinion.

What's yours?
 
Wrote an article a few years back on Sith and Dark Jedi, and explaining the difference. Reflects my thoughts well enough:


Although these two terms are often used synonymously, there are actually many significant differences between Sith and Dark Jedi (also known as Fallen Jedi, for reasons that are mainly self-explanatory). The most basic distinction is in the origin of each type: the Sith themselves were originally a species, originating on Korriban, long since extinct, but naturally strong in Force Sensitivity, although they exploited this through the use of magical incantations and formulas, much like the Dathomir Witches, rather than through simply using the Force in the way that the Jedi have always been known to do. Millenia ago, several Jedi that had been exiled from the Jedi Order for advocating a path that required that the individual used emotion, enslaved the Sith as their Gods and eventually became known as the Lords of the Sith.

Over time, these Dark Lords inevitably adopted many of the cultural aspects of the Sith, primarily including their language and magical incantations, learning things about the Force as a result that the Jedi had never taught, thus creating a schism between the abilities of the Sith and those of the Jedi. In honouring the legacy of Darth Andeddu, all subsequent Sith Lords took on the title of 'Darth', immediately followed by a pseudonym which remained their secret name among the Sith, not to be revealed to outsiders. More often than not, these adopted names became the Sith's permanent names, their original names discarded and forgotten.

Dark Jedi, on the other hand, are not members of the Sith Order, although the original Dark Lords of the Sith were indeed Dark Jedi, but instead these are simply members of the Jedi Order that have 'fallen' or turned away from the Jedi teachings to follow the 'Dark Side of the Force', whereby they act out of emotion, rather than from mindful serenity. In doing so, they also connect to the Force in a far different way to those advocated by Jedi teachings - rather than channeling the energy of the Force that flows through them, instead they use their emotional energy to use the Force as a direct tool, thus meaning that Dark Jedi techniques are far more overt and aggressive in nature than the more passive Jedi skills.

This in itself provides one of the more major differences between Sith and Dark Jedi - the types of abilities which the two possess. Dark Jedi traditionally utilise corrupted Jedi teachings and abilities, so more often than not they possess similar skills like Force Kinesis, Affect Mind etc, simply drawing on a different approach for using those skills. Additionally, the Dark Jedi also lack the same restraint and ethical tendencies of the Jedi, so can turn their powers into less moral uses - a major example being the use of Force Kinesis to choke an adversary, or using a dominating Mind Trick to force another to serve their whims. The Sith, on the other hand, use mainly abilities that originate with the Sith race that they enslaved, and hence have a far wider range of abilities than Dark Jedi, the most prominant example being that of Force Lightning, which stems from a Sith incantation that eventually had the verbal component removed.

While it is certainly true to say that the Sith can use the powers of both Jedi and Dark Jedi, albeit in a form not restricted by the Jedi's ethical tendencies, and feeding off the Dark Side of the Force like Dark Jedi do, inevitably the reverse is not true - one cannot use Sith abilities without being trained in the Sith arts (thus becoming a Sith), consequently meaning that Dark Jedi are far more restricted in their powers than the Sith.

Additionally, there is a major difference in the philosophies of the two. The Sith have a long and ancient tradition which all Sith adhere to, whereas Dark Jedi are merely those that have turned away from Jedi practices, and thus, they have no set philosophy to adhere to - the only major similarity between the two in this regard is that both ascribe to using the Dark Side of the Force. The Sith have set traditions regarding several points: firstly, the use of emotion instead of serenity (a counter-Jedi philosophy), the idea that only through using emotions could one truly understand the Force, since emotions were completely natural to all sentient life, and to control them and suppress one's own instincts for power and progression was heretical - hence why the Jedi and Sith have always been opposed to one-another.

Secondly there is the belief in the doctrine that life only becomes truly strong in conflict - following on from the Darwinian idea that evolution occurs from adaptation to environmental stimuli. Hence, in periods of war, those that are strong become much stronger, surviving and coming out of the war far more powerful than they had been before, whereas those that were weak to begin with perish. Inevitably, this improves the overall power of the species - and the Sith believe this is the key to understanding the Force, since this is a natural process, that the strong succeed where the weak perish. Consequently, the Sith prefer to be the ones responsible for the aggression, using it to increase their personal power, and to cull the weak that they might benefit from the strong. Unfortunately, this tended to be the downfall of the Sith, since their beliefs in their own strength were obstinate to the point whereby they often underestimated strength in forms other than the ones which they were used to - hence the inevitably withdrawal from the Sith existing en masse to the creation of the Rule of Two.

As a sidenote, this was an ancient doctrine that began following the Battle of Ruusan where both the armies of the Jedi and the Sith were destroyed as a result of a Thought Bomb, leaving only Darth Bane as a survivor. He came to realise that the failure of the Sith was in giving their adversaries a face to match the name - the Sith had up until that point existed in large numbers, and thus they had become an enemy towards whom it was easy to direct the arsenal of their inevitable defeat. Consequently, it is now Sith philosophy that the Sith exist only via the Rule of Two - that at any one time, only two Sith may exist: a Master and an Apprentice, one teaching the other. When it is time for the apprentice to train someone themselves, and once their own training is completed, it is customary for the Apprentice to murder their Master - if they fail, it is assumed by the Sith that the apprentice was not strong enough, and thus the Master seeks out a new student to train.

Dark Jedi are different in this regard, since they do not strictly speaking have to follow a path to dominate or control - instead, they can simply learn to use their emotions to channel Dark Side energy. What they then do with that is entirely at their discretion, whereas for a Sith, this is not so. Indeed, it is quite possible for a Dark Jedi to exist that uses their powers for good, although sadly this has never actually occurred, since very few Dark Jedi are strong enough to resist the inevitable corruption they face when utilising the Dark Side of the Force.
 
Dark Jedi are Jedi that are no longer part of the Jedi Order, and who have embraced the use of the darkside, however simple, or in whatever form. It might be something simple, it might be complicated. Dark Jedi range in spectrum from those who only dabble in the darkside, but have good intentions, to those who are dark but have their moments of light.

My two cents.
 
Teynara Jeralyr said:
The Sith have a long and ancient tradition which all Sith adhere to, whereas Dark Jedi are merely those that have turned away from Jedi practices, and thus, they have no set philosophy to adhere to - the only major similarity between the two in this regard is that both ascribe to using the Dark Side of the Force.
Perfect summary.
 
Kamon Vondiranach said:
Dark Jedi range in spectrum from those who only dabble in the darkside, but have good intentions, to those who are dark but have their moments of light.
I agree, but we should keep in mind that absolute power corrupts absolutely: the dark side, however lightly intended at the beginning, however minor, would begin to snowball in corruption. It takes a toll.
 
That then requires us to define 'corruption' - do remember, the term is usually only ever used by Jedi to describe their fallen counterparts, and thus is a judgmental statement: to use the Dark Side is to be tainted/stained/corrupted by it, which is to say that it takes a hold and refuses to let go. That noted, what characterises this corruption? Not all Sith or Dark Jedi suffer physical effects from their use of the Force, and I do believe it is quite possible for a being to remain in charge of themselves and be able to maintain a moral compass of sorts - after all, we've seen acts of mercy from those embroiled in the Dark Side, so my suspicion is that Dark Side corruption is mostly a combination of emotions unleashed combined with the absence of Jedi moral philosophy: to do anything that serves yourself is a corruption of what Jedi believe are the core tenets by which a Force Sensitive should live.
 
Rogue Jedi are simply those who have forsaken their vows to the Order, and follow their own path, rather than one dictated for them by the Jedi Council. Dark Jedi have gone far beyond that, and sworn to a different philosophy and set of means entirely - essentially, a Rogue Jedi might be able to return to the Order, if persuaded to do so. A Dark Jedi would need much stronger rehabilitation, essentially weaning then from the Dark Side and restoring them to the Light.
 
The way I think of the Dark Side is that it s a highly unstable and a volatile source of power. Hence the requirement of the teachings of the Sith to temper the mind so that it can handle the power without succumbing too much to it. Without these teachings any attempt to use the Dark Side will make it that much harder to ever go back to the light.
 
Perhaps Dark Jedi are simply a mix of both Sith and Jedi. Were their actions and ways of dealing with things are normally geared towards ghe dark side but their motives and overall outcome are for the greater good. Like assassins from AC or something like a anti hero.
 
Subject 13 said:
Perhaps Dark Jedi are simply a mix of both Sith and Jedi. Were their actions and ways of dealing with things are normally geared towards ghe dark side but their motives and overall outcome are for the greater good. Like assassins from AC or something like a anti hero.
Sadly not - the Sith have a very specific philosophy, and the name points to a specific Order and members associated with it. Dark Jedi is just a blanket umbrella term for those who tap into the Dark Side for their own purposes, and have not trained under nor been granted rank under the Sith mantle. Not all Dark Jedi can be Sith (any more than all Jedi can convert to the Sith ways), and no Sith is merely a Dark Jedi, but something different, though they tap into the same power source.
 

Thadd Zarr

Guest
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Jedi and Sith are basically orders.., religions of force users. Jedi being on the light side of the spectrum.., and the Sith on the dark end... A force user that does not adhere to either of those creeds would then be either dark side users... Light side users... Or grey... In the middle. Jedi and Sith do not define the force... They are merely ways of thinking about it....
A dark jedi would thus be a term for a jedi that is no longer a jedi... One who left his creed and is now a dark side user. But is obviously not a Sith.

My character is neither jedi nor sith. But a form of a grey force user.. But he wouldn't consider himself a dark jedi even if he uses the dark side because he wasn't trained in the jedi religion or,arts.
 

Thadd Zarr

Guest
T
Calum Finley said:
I personally find it confusing to distinguish between a rogue Jedi and a 'Dark' Jedi...
Rouge jedi - doesn't believe in the jedi order anymore but still uses the light side.
Dark jedi - is not in the jedi order and succumbs to the use of the dark side...l
 
Tefga said:
It seems like a lot of people view leaving the Jedi of the Republic as a reason to change their titles from "Jedi" to "Dark Jedi" while still remaining Jedi, though this is just an opinion.
The term people are looking for in this instance is Gray Jedi, which covers Force sects "walking the line" of the dark side (in reality, the Jensaari and Imperial Knights) -OR- it could define a Jedi that distanced themselves from the Jedi High Council and Jedi Code, whether by leaving the Jedi or just by not listening to the Council's authority.

Dark Jedi are, without a doubt, dark side users that were never trained to be Sith.

When using both Dark Jedi and Gray Jedi, one doesn't have to be a former Jedi.

This is how Wookieepedia defines such terms.
 
Thadd you are right about the rouge Jedi still using the light side of the force, But what I see differently from you is that Dark Jedi are Force users who use the dark side to TRY and do good things but it never ends up that way.
 

Lord Ghoul

Guest
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Sith - Dark Side, follow tradition and tenets
Dark Jedi - Dark Side, follow their personal beliefs
Grey Jedi - Light Side, follow their personal beliefs
Jedi - Light Side, follow tradition and tenets

Personally, I think characters who use both the light and dark side at the same time should not exist. They're an inherent contradiction. This does not mean that light siders cannot do bad things, or that dark siders cannot do good things. In my opinion, Jedi can be pretty awful. (see the Je'daii Order first striking the Followers of Bogan and later the Jedi Order doing the same to the Legions of Lettow)

If you want to be a rogue who uses the light, you're a Grey Jedi. If you want to be a rogue who uses the dark, you're a Dark Jedi. None of this in-between nonsense.
 

Lord Ghoul

Guest
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Except the fence is actually a wall. And the wall is made of lava. And if you stand in, or on, it you die.
 
Mikhail Shorn said:
Sith - Dark Side, follow tradition and tenets
Dark Jedi - Dark Side, follow their personal beliefs
Grey Jedi - Light Side, follow their personal beliefs
Jedi - Light Side, follow tradition and tenets
This is actually the best brief definition of the terms. All Dark Jedi used the dark side. Most, if not all, Gray Jedi actively rejected the dark side - even the Jensaarai.
 

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