Community First, PvP Second - A Mindset Suggestion

[Jsc]

Tef I'm going to try to sell you on something you're probably not going to like. Given that this is your website? I understand it will be run your way. However, just give this idea an ear. It's public for the sake of a reply to current events. It's also from me, so. You know how that goes already. Anyway. Here we go.


There is no Winning

People complain a lot about not feeling the warm fuzzies when they FvF. And here's my point. They always will. Look. There is no solid method for "winning", you can't optimize for PvP, There is no "win" button, "win" force ability, or "win" gun. There are no HPs or XPs, the rules change every Invasion, the judges are their own darn biased FAs, there are the same writers fighting on both sides, the FAs don't even represent, understand, or acknowledge every members playstyle as a contributing factor, and Faction Loyalty is just another excuse to troll other people for their choice in fact or fiction. This is just how it is right now.

So. The game you like, may not be the game you want at all.


There is just People

When you opened up freedom you open up the floodgates. Good desires as well as more immature ones showered forth. From lego makers, to God builders, to sexy Ewok hottubs. It all came pouring out. And yes, we all like to think these can all be shoved and boxed into a game we call PvP. A little fairy tale we call 'fairness'. Well. They can't. Not without a way to keep people from cheating. And even then? You can't stop stupid. Even when the majority vote has prescribed this great 'fairness'. People will still complain, report, and demand changes. Even the majority can still demand bad things in large quantities. That's just the human race in a nutshell.

You can't please everybody. A little discomfort is a good thing.


Fair PvP is a Unicorn

Good PvP is a mindset. Bad PvP is a focus on winning. Moderated PvP means trust. And this website needs to pick which one it wants.

If you want to enjoy PvP. Then just be happy you're playing a game, be optimistic of the experience, and be willing to lose everything you love that is fictional. Because, who cares! It's just for fun. Now. If you want Bad PvP then just focus all your efforts on winning. Spam the Factory, build an Armory, powergame, godmode, spy, troll, bait, grief, cheat, blog, skype, whine, complain, report, and demand changes to suit your fancy. Become war. Anything goes. ...And if you want Moderated PvP then be willing to pick an unaffiliated third party and abide by their "humanly biased" decision. Of course it's slighted. Of course it's biased. Because so is people. But wait. We didn't come here to fight human nature. We came here to write fantasy. So... I guess we already succeeded the moment we made our first post. Didn't we.

No where in there did I mention "fairness", voting, or adding more rules. I just talked about attitudes. The pinkest unicorn of all.


Your Concerns Matter

But utopia is fleeting. When I come onto this website I accept a compromise. I accept that no matter how hard I write, my characters will not be Gods. (Or even probably convincing) I accept that no matter how hard I blog, people will not change. I accept that no matter how much I want to see my Faction of the Month succeed on the Map, I can only recommend they be awesome to everybody. In fact, I even accept that no matter how long I play this game, there will always be another member who has to learn all the lessons I've had to learn the hard way. Even if that member is me. Again. Still. We keep pushing. It's what has made this website so much fun since day one. We strive to remember that now matter how much we change the rules or open them up? People are still people. Nothing really changes.


In closing. Don't be afraid to speak to your PvP concerns. Yet, here's the suggestion again. A mindset. "Community first. PvP Second." The Map can be a game of attitude, teamwork, and cooperation. Or it can be a game of rules, leverage, and winning. And sometimes? The only difference is in how we perceive it in our mind.

 

[Boggo Flib]

PvP = A really fun time Communicating with other Writers OOC and then translating that into IC. xD

 

[Seraphina Shel'tah]

The only time I have found PvP enjoyable is when the fight is discussed between the writers throughout the entire thread, rather than when one person takes issue with something the other did, and then tries to compensate for it by in turn, infuriating the other writer. This is the scenario that occurs in every single invasion, and it's why many people have grown to despise the idea of invasions and/or have abandoned participation in any. Communication only happens when someone is angered by another writer's post.

I remember my very first PvP experience with [member="Xhexania"] - It was fantastic. The entire invasion was enjoyable because we talked constantly, and she's been a great friend ever since. Other PvP encounters though? When this doesn't occur? Nightmarish at best.

[member="Jay Scott Clark"]

 

[Teynara Jeralyr]

We've got a 7v7 PvP skirmish going on between OS and SSC right now, and it's been nothing but friendly, civilised and well-written. There's animosity between characters but none between the writers, and that's how good RPs should be done. The only people around here who really give a damn about who wins in PvP skirmishes and duels are those who don't understand that good writing isn't about you, it's about the story, and in this environment, it's all about who you're writing with, and what you create together.

We;re a community, and I have to be honest, sometimes we fail to act like one. We've got good writers, bad writers, writers who can blow you away and some who just don't deserve to be considered writers at all, but where we do great things is when we challenge each other, teach each other, learn from each other and just focus on making some damn good stories.

If anyone's here to 'win', just get out. You'll be saving everyone a lot of grief, hassle and frustration in the long run, because this isn't a competition, and 'winning' is just your ego being satisfied at the expense of someone else's writing.

 

[Darth Vyrassu]

Deep words, and I agree with alot of it, my personal opinion some admins are biased to their own Factions, that's my opinion it's not wrong of me to state how I feel, I'm not meaning any disrespect and not going to be dropping names, but I do feel that way, some admins are biased on choosing the faction they are in to win or the faction they favor.

 

[Coren Starchaser]

But how will we prove who is better?

 

[Teynara Jeralyr]

[member="Coren Starchaser"] Better at what? Flexing invisible muscles?

 

[Kei Amadis]

[member="Jay Scott Clark"]

All the Yep! - I'd marry you about now, well maybe not, but i'd offer you a cup of tea, and a sandwich.

[member="Coren Starchaser"]

Beard measurements. It's always been beard measurements.

 

[Tellos]

I am of the group who has abandoned invasions due mostly to the fact as you mentioned I usually only get spoken to so people can complain about my posts, thus it makes it very un fun and starts off communication in a combative manner. My best PVP threads were all private ones devised with other writers and they were awesome.

 

[Jsc]

[member="Darth Vyrassu"] - Bias is a good thing. A wonderful thing. Until it causes you slight another person. Then it's still a wonderful thing, you're just swinging it like a sword. Oops.

 

[Morgana Sokolov]

Bias is a good thing. A wonderful thing. Until it causes you slight another person. Then it's still a wonderful thing, you're just swinging it like a sword.

I'm going to quote you on this at some point. I like this... this collection of words.
A++ read as always, Mr. Clark.

 

[Jsc]

[member="Morgana Sokolov"] - Thank you. But please note. I have also been quoted as saying: "Why do Indian girls taste like Greek food?" , "Could tuna really be the chicken of the sea?" , and "I was actually thinking about voting for Donald Trump the old day..."

So. Grain of salt.

 

[Morgana Sokolov]

[member="Jay Scott Clark"]
Everyone has their moments- good and bad. Especially when it comes to the wisdom (or 'wisdom') of what they say. For example, my dad is known for making horrible puns (not the ones that are so bad that they're good, just the ones that are so bad they're just bad), but he occasionally manages to pass along some half decent fatherly advice. One quote of his I've held onto goes something like "Common sense is only common when it's nonsense". I don't remember the original context, but it fits a fair amount of life. At least in my mind
The same mind that has randomly thought things like "how much can a half-done mariachi band do" and once responded to the question 'are you okay" with "what if tacos had butts?".

 

[Rusty]

Setting out to win is not necessarily a bad thing. A good competitive spirit will keep a site going strong far longer than sentiments of peace, love, and hand grenades for all.

From what I've seen, the problems stem not from writing to win, but from trying to win at all costs. If I'm in a duel with someone, unless there's an agreed upon outcome, I'm going to do everything within my power to come out on top, but only from an IC perspective. That's what PvP should be about: characters striving to best each other, not the writers themselves. When the writers let their ego get involved, things turn nasty with a quickness. More than once, I've seen the writers insert themselves into duels in order to achieve a favorable outcome for a faction, often at the insistence of their faction leaders. When they find themselves at a disadvantage, they whine about how the other writer is in it for the win, or about how it's not fair that they're losing. They start demanding edits. They start powergaming or outright godmoding to avoid taking hits. What could have been a fun experience is now a miserable slog. Tempers flair all around and fun goes out the window.

Once that happens, the well has been poisoned. If it's only a couple of writers, maybe everyone else can get by without much trouble, but in an invasion, the bad feelings tend to spread.

I don't pretend to have a solution for this. On my last site, we erred too far towards the side of caution, and that snuffed the life out of the place. After five years, it was a shadow of its former self. It's been around for eight years now, and aside from the desperate thrashing of a few stubborn writers who refuse to let go, it's dead.

 

[Neiros Starwind]

I don't ever expect to win. Only to survive.

 

[Ellie Mors]

I pvp regularly (It's pretty much all I do), and I've very rarely engaged in pm conversations with the other writers. Of those I have, the majority try to "communicate" in order to get their way, demands for edits because they don't fit that other person's ideal flow of battle.

This has nothing to do with communication and everything to do with sucking it up and moving along. I've only had a single issue with a writer that hadn't been in contact with me, and it had to do with hit calling in my first invasion on Empress Teta.

Mad someone ducked instead of taking the hit? Get over it and keep writing. The issue with PvP is the inability to accept another character's actions, and the attempt to impose on another.

The issue with the community is not PvP, it is paranoia, grief, rage, and bias - want to fix the community? Fix how they see the rest of the community, PvP is just a scapegoat.

 

[Rusty]

The issue with the community is not PvP, it is paranoia, grief, rage, and bias - want to fix the community? Fix how they see the rest of the community, PvP is just a scapegoat.

I'll drink to that.

[member="Braith Achlys"]

 

[Six-O]

It's a game of writing, so story and style should win ten times out of ten.

 

[Jsc]

I don't pretend to have a solution for this.

Your post is welcome and spoken from good experience. But let me turn aside and speak to the quote above real quickly. Rusty. We don't need a solution. Probably because their isn't one. Life isn't really something you solve. It's something you endure and evolve from. Humans will be humans after all. And I certainly didn't make this post to give anybody a solution to any one problem. Oh no. I gave it to help one man keep a very broad perspective on what some people see as a very simple complication.

Now. I would clarify this by saying that while I often preach and give invitations to changes and new ideas, I've learned to stay away from making rules and making rainbows. There is no post, blog, nor suggestion I can make that can force any man to do anything. Especially help himself. I can only invite, reason, and lend an optimistic voice to otherwise muddled and stirring seas. Such is life. Some will call this intent helpful. Others will call this intent annoying. I'm sure the truth is somewhere in between.

So I hope that as you read my posts you will understand that I'm not here, posting ever so loudly, to give definitive solutions, be space jesus, or make rainbows our of crimson threads. Nah. I'm just another opinion in the mud.

Good comments.

 

[Cyrus Tregessar]

But utopia is fleeting.

You read it here first, folks. >.>

More seriously, I've always found in RP's that the best fight scenes come about when both sides are dedicated to writing a good fight scene first and figuring out who wins/loses second. Hell I've done fights where the outcome is pre-arranged and they're some of the most entertaining to write and read. The alternative is also true, of course, but having a good rapport with your opponent or at least mutual respect goes a long way.

I don't think there is a solution to this at all, but being aware that there's more to life (in RP) than victory can help mitigate the problem.