Canon Overpowering Site-Canon?

[Matreya]

Not bringing to light any such issues, as I feel they may be dealt with as is, but, in the future, what is the transfer of equality? Ie. A weapon being described as X powerful, while site bound is not possible. Or a Starship that has Y amount of armaments, while Z is the Max amount allowed on site canon.

I have seen it a couple times, once even dulling down a transfer of my own, as the actual canon was oddly OP. Recently I see it less, but it is arising again with me. Thus, without making any waves, what can be done about such? What should be done?

Honestly don't feel that reporting is the right answer, but I don't know what to do..

 

[Ellie Mors]

[member="Darth Pikiran"]
Can you give an example?

 

[Soeht]

My litmus test is this:

• Is what's being used/done something that a random character could possibly counter it without needing a new Factory submission?

I apply this to anything on the site, including canon items (unique or not). I don't use items/abilities that fail and try to avoid Writers that heavily abuse such things.

And what I mean by counterplay is that there is a way to defeat the function of the item/ability. The armor shouldn't be invincible to everything, is an example. Or, the weapon should not be able to cut through anything and disable lightsabers automatically.

Some canon items obviously fail this test. The Gauntlet of Kressh the Younger is one such item. The Wookieepedia description says all you need to know:

• Prevents anything from touching the wearer without wearer's consent

The only reason the villain wielding it lost was because he took hold of the Idiot Ball. A Writer would likely not do what Haazen did.

I don't think it would be fun to have one's character fight against a character that literally cannot be touched by anything. Hence, it fails the litmus test.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

[member="Darth Pikiran"]
I don't know exactly what you mean, but let me give you some context.

Star Wars legends canon is a nearly 40 year mass of random items from as diverse sources as comics, playing cards, young adult novels and video games. Some of the things are wildly out of context with what happened later, or were invented because they were required for the plot.

Take Force Storm, an ability created for Dark Empire comics for dramatic effect. Or take some of the many overly powerful 'superweapons of the week' such as the Suncrusher or Eclipse Star Destroyer. These were brought in and disposed of in quick time but added that sort of necessary flair to the story.

So yes, there are times where sense, rationality and fairness overcomes 'canon'. In the Codex I have had to reject canon precedents at times when having a super invulnerable creature such as a Gen'dai is not good for the board.
It comes down to the individual case, but where the item or skill creates unfair and unbalanced role playing, Chaos canon will always take precedent.

 

[Matreya]

[member="Braith Achlys"]

A ship having 2000+ weapons on it? Stuff like that. I have seen others but that's the one sticking out. I imagine making a quick change to ships like that to fit the site would be best, but don't want to call anyone out on anything.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

[member="Darth Pikiran"]
If it's an issue, report it.
If it's not an issue, no need to faf around and half-mention it.

 

[Soeht]

A ship having 2000+ weapons on it?

Counterplay to that might be just boarding the ship.

Or kamikazes.

Or more ships, despite people somehow wanting fleet length limits. No Battle of Coruscant space battle, I guess. Seriously, over 1,000 Venators. Another 1,000 Destroyers from the CIS. Thousands more capital ships. Nothing like that has been done on SWRP, to my knowledge.

Or all of the above.

 

[Matreya]

That was the point behind the thread. Didn't know if this sort of thing should be handled by staff so that its clarified, as I believe the whole allotted amount of weapons per ship thing is still active. Or whether I should ignore and keep at it.

Regardless the amount of weapons, I have plans to take it out either way. Hell just like your video showed, some of the best ships can be taken out rather simply.

 

[Cyrus Tregessar]

[member="Soeht"]

Fleet length limitations are typically used in order to facilitate the use of more esoteric or clever tactics than traditionally present in Star Wars. Twenty ships is manageable, two thousand star destroyers less so.

That said, there have been fleeting engagements that avoid using specific numbers. Those tend to have a higher assumed overall ship count, and higher body count as well.

I also personally like using smaller amounts of ships to emphasize how goddamn big they all are. A little 400m frigate is somewhat larger than a modern Nimitz-class Supercarrier. That's for a patrol ship.

Finally there is (of course) the wildly varying examples from canon. The Empire supposedly loses like ten ISD-II's at Endor and it's a HUGE DEAL and crippling blow (well, alongside the Executor and Death Star, obviously). Then Thrawn conquers worlds with a single star destroyer. And subsequently we see in the prequels and SWTOR and the like that apparently there are just thousands of SD's lying around for everyone to use and abuse.

I figure as long as you work something out with your opponent than do what you like.

As far as canon being OP to site canon, there's also the fact that we have writers here who like to use actual physics and science, something Star Wars canon tends to stray away from. The theory of relatively gets downright apocalyptic when you're dealing with mile-long warships.

 

[Tefka]

It's situational.

 

[War Hydra]

I have seen it a couple times, once even dulling down a transfer of my own, as the actual canon was oddly OP.

And here is your answer. SW Canon ships, weapons, and other technology are not created with the express purpose of being fair, friendly, or balanced against any other ship or technology. As such, some are going to be ridiculously sub-par to other canon creations and some are going to be ridiculously more powerful than some other canon creations. That's why there is Banned and Restricted Technology on SW Chaos.

And while the Factory and Codex put forth great effort to ensure that the things that come through said places are fair and roughly balanced against any similar creation... They have no means of balancing these creations against all canon creations. They can only pick a point on the scale and decide something along the lines of... "StormTrooper Armor is the standard we should judge body armor by. Anything of higher quality requires effort put into the submission itself and the development thread." There will always be alternatives that will be better or worse... like Armorweave, Flak Vests, Beskar'gam, exc.

Then there are things like the canon lightsaber that can "cut through beskar like butter", but wouldn't be able to power through personal shielding in the same way.


Some canon stuff was made to be end-game technology in a video game.
Other stuff was made for cartoons and to entertain children.
Other stuff was made just because it seemed cool at the time.
Some stuff was made because an author needed a McGuffin.
And some stuff was made because George Lucas wanted an excuse to go back and make things look better.


The Imperial II-class Star Destroyer wasn't designed to be physically feasible or of a tactically sound design.
It was designed to look cool.

So of course it won't hold up against a SW Chaos ship designed to have tactically redundant systems, intelligent fire-arcs, and utilize mass-driver and missile weapons.

 

[Jsc]

How to be OP:

• 1. Make a Turbolaser Tank.
• 2. Make a humongous 1 million gun Capital Ship that carries a bazillion squads of said Turbolaser Tank.
• 3. Now, bring the tanks out onto the ship's deck during a fleet engagement and add their firepower to your gun count.
• 4. Watch as [member="Valiens Nantaris"] sighs and shakes his head.

Also:

• If you type in the phrase "Poweroverwhelming" into the Intent section of your Factory Submission? You unlock GOD MODE.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

[member="Jay Scott Clark"]
Shh, don't tell him the cheats!

 

[Ellie Mors]

"Poweroverwhelming"

That was 2.0. It's "#NotBigEnough" now.

 

[Popo]

Also: If you type in the phrase "Poweroverwhelming" into the Intent section of your Factory Submission? You unlock GOD MODE.

I'm seriously tempted to do that in my submissions from now on just to see if anyone catches it in there. And to see what happens. Mainly for lulz.