Discussion An Argument Against AI (please be kind to each other)

[Trenton12]

I want to say that we are all artists here. We all craft and create. We all write these stories of hope, loss, struggle, despair, triumph, love, hate, hope. I know I am new here with just a month under my belt and maybe I don't know the culture, maybe I’m wrong. However I see an egregious amount of Artificial Intelligence. I see a lot of very creative and intelligent people using a machine that is built on the theft of artist’s work, of people like us who create and dream of stories and images. I don't think you should do that. I don’t think you should use that Machine.

I think that if you are someone who loves art and who loves the idea of creativity. You should try, you should try to learn that new skill because you contain worlds beyond counting within you. You contain multitudes of art and creation that is so fundamentally beautiful and beyond measure. I think that you should want to be bad at something so you can have this journey to be good at it one day.

I understand that we live in a world where you have to make money. Where you have to earn and to make your place, and all of it so very stressful. You don't have time to learn a new skill. You have to cook dinner. You have to change that diaper. You have to make this happen and typing some words into an engine is easy. I understand that as a father and as a husband, but I think in doing that. You are doing yourself a disservice. You are robbing yourself of this exploration.

We live in a world now where artist would rather you steal their art to make and an OC rather than contributing to a nightmare machine that is going to be litigated on copyright law for years to come. If you use AI, genuinely I don't want to think lesser of you. As a person, as an artist. As a human being who has unlimited potential and so much talent and grace and beauty within you. But theres a part of me that does that I am ashamed to admit. You should want the journey. You should want the struggle. That's what makes us human.

That is what makes you You.

 

[Colette]

It's Pandora's box, or a monkey paw, or a genie out of the bottle. AI isn't going to go away, and the shape it takes is horrible. At the same time, a person who doesn't know how to draw but who can write can generate a somewhat accurate depiction of something they want to make sure the reader understands.

I'm okay with people using AI as long as they also are able to acknowledge that they are participating in something that is hostile to others' livelihoods and operate on natural resources killing communities for the sake of shareholder value.

As for the rest of this discussion I find that it rarely leads anywhere productive and starts walking in circles. I respect your willingness and urge to share your view. Art is a deeply human thing, but so is the desire to take shortcuts.

 

[Aether Verd]

Definitely see where you're coming from, and there are a lot of people on Chaos who will agree with you.

However, Chaos has an official stance regarding AI and discussing it won't modify that stance. Feel free to review it here.

 

[Trenton12]

Definitely see where you're coming from, and there are a lot of people on Chaos who will agree with you.

However, Chaos has an official stance regarding AI and discussing it won't modify that stance. Feel free to review it here.

i saw, I just figured I had to make my stance very clear before continuing because I am married to an artist. someone who has had their work stolen and It felt appropriate to say.

 

[Aurelian Sigismund]

I think it is a tool of convenience, ease of use. I was where you are at for a long time. I commissioned art, spent hundreds of Euros and it always was (and is) a lot better than anything AI can produce. But I am using it as well now, money runs less fluidly and fighting that dumb program to get the detail I want can be as fun as it is annoying.

I can only give the advice that you should read first and see & judge afterwards. If AI is a no-go for you, so it is. There is nothing wrong with having your own opinion, but I would not let it bar yourself from writing enjoyable stories with people. For however much effort we put into images, divs and signatures, the written word remains the medium through which we roleplay.

 

[Trenton12]

I think it is a tool of convenience, ease of use. I was where you are at for a long time. I commissioned art, spent hundreds of Euros and it always was (and is) a lot better than anything AI can produce. But I am using it as well now, money runs less fluidly and fighting that dumb program to get the detail I want can be as fun as it is annoying.

I can only give the advice that you should read first and see & judge afterwards. If AI is a no-go for you, so it is. There is nothing wrong with having your own opinion, but I would not let it bar yourself from writing enjoyable stories with people. For however much effort we put into images, divs and signatures, the written word remains the medium through which we roleplay.

I don’t think I can ever move from this though. I understand people who use it. People want an easy button but I think that is inherently antithetical to the idea of humanity. maybe it’s a dumb artsy position but that’s a hill I will gladly die on.

 

[Allyson Locke]

I understand your position and I’ve lost a dream job in gaming because of AI. But it’s a tool at the end of the day just like photoshop etc.

I’m a chef in my offline life. I’ve cooked from scratch and I’ve used boxed goods. I’ve seen people make some really cool stuff from fully prepared ingredients and the like. They post it, they’re proud.

Did they make that hollandaise from scratch? Did the rotisserie that chicken? No, but they did something. Will I cheer for them sure.

While I do understand this is a loose comparison and people will argue not the same! But it kind of is, if you apply the same logic.

I use AI to produce a character image that fits to the best of what they look like in my brain. If that means you look down on me I guess there’s no changing your mind. But id never look down on someone who made a box cake, with container frosting.

We are in an age of convenience. There are no nos in my opinion. When it comes to AI, like making money off of it — or feeding your favorite artist’s work until the bot can produce it.

Using it as a tool as a way to make your life easier is what it was meant for. And like I mentioned in discord, I can’t afford nor do I have the artistic capabilities to have someone make changes 100x just because my character’s nose isn’t what I want it to be.

I don’t know, it’s a weird thing, but as long as we use it as a tool for a fun little hobby I don’t see harm in it. And as stated, SWRP: Chaos doesn’t care if you use AI and no one should be shamed because they do.

 

[Trenton12]

I understand your position and I’ve lost a dream job in gaming because of AI. But it’s a tool at the end of the day just like photoshop etc.

I’m a chef in my offline life. I’ve cooked from scratch and I’ve used boxed goods. I’ve seen people make some really cool stuff from fully prepared ingredients and the like. They post it, they’re proud.

Did they make that hollandaise from scratch? Did the rotisserie that chicken? No, but they did something. Will I cheer for them sure.

While I do understand this is a loose comparison and people will argue not the same! But it kind of is, if you apply the same logic.

I use AI to produce a character image that fits to the best of what they look like in my brain. If that means you look down on me I guess there’s no changing your mind. But id never look down on someone who made a box cake, with container frosting.

We are in an age of convenience. There are no nos in my opinion. When it comes to AI, like making money off of it — or feeding your favorite artist’s work until the bot can produce it.

Using it as a tool as a way to make your life easier is what it was meant for. And like I mentioned in discord, I can’t afford nor do I have the artistic capabilities to have someone make changes 100x just because my character’s nose isn’t what I want it to be.

I don’t know, it’s a weird thing, but as long as we use it as a tool for a fun little hobby I don’t see harm in it. And as stated, SWRP: Chaos doesn’t care if you use AI and no one should be shamed because they do.

As a colleague of yours. I am also a chef. I made food for one one California‘s best rated restaurants.

I think you are a doing a massive disservice comparing what we do to make a plate happen to AI. We have to struggle to do so. I got cuts and burns across my hands and arms to prove that.

we keep saying “it’s a tool.” But we aren’t talking about how that tool is made. We aren’t talking about how that tool steals money from real people. how it steals intellectual property from real people. Not some hypothetical person that is a world away but real people.

 

[Allyson Locke]

I’m not going to get into a pissing contest over our industry. Most of my career has been spent in Michelin kitchens, I’ve been nominated for accolades, but that doesn’t give me any right to shame or look down on someone.

The applied logic is the same.

Someone using a box or a kit that’s been pre-measured, pre seasoned/pre marinated, basically done for you almost to the point you have to just turn on your oven is an easy comparison to just pushing a button with AI.

You said to be nice in this thread, but you’ve mentioned looking down on people and your words are in a nice way shaming people who find the enjoyment with playing with ai generation.

You have a stance and so do others but neither stance allows you to feel better than someone else.

Which is what my comparison’s point was. Just because I’ve dedicated my life to a craft, doesn’t make me better than someone else.

 

[Trenton12]

I’m not going to get into a pissing contest over our industry. Most of my career has been spent in Michelin kitchens, I’ve been nominated for accolades, but that doesn’t give me any right to shame or look down on someone.

The applied logic is the same.

Someone using a box or a kit that’s been pre-measured, pre seasoned/pre marinated, basically done for you almost to the point you have to just turn on your oven is an easy comparison to just pushing a button with AI.

You said to be nice in this thread, but you’ve mentioned looking down on people and your words are in a nice way shaming people who find the enjoyment with playing with ai generation.

You have a stance and so do others but neither stance allows you to feel better than someone else.

Which is what my comparison’s point was. Just because I’ve dedicated my life to a craft, doesn’t make me better than someone else.

Yes, I look down on you. If you are someone who uses generative AI. I don’t want to, but I do. There is that part of my brain that itches and scratches every time someone chooses to take an easy way. We can go band for band about our accolades for cooking and I don’t think that will be productive. I want to be kind despite how I feel about a pointed topic.

you keep saying it’s “pre marinade“ it’s ready made ingredients like it’s something that just happens. We both know it doesn’t just happen. I used to make chips on an assembly line. I was one of those people who make that ingredient show up. the people who made those ingredient should be paid and you are using a machine that steals from them and doesn’t pay them for their labor.

people who work should be paid.

 

[Aiden Porte]

Probably best to just drop this conversation. Opinions are noted. Best to just move on.

 

[Aselia Verd]

Well, I am going to express a very unpopular opinion. I work in IT, I work with Large Language Models all day long.

Generative AI is similar to a fledgling artist. What do I mean?

A human student learns by looking at examples of the past, studying detailed, minute strokes of a brush that have been studied for centuries. They learn color theory, perspective, etc. And yes, they reproduce art. Generative AI is no different, except it does it at scale, and unlike its human counterpart, that memory is persistent, so it always remembers how to do things.

Also, a common misconception among people is that training data is just harvested from the internet wholesale and fed into AI. This is incorrect. Garbage in, garbage out. AI is fed curated datasets of whatever their creators want them to learn, and is constantly reinforced. Does content get used without permission? Absolutely, but in my mind it is no different from a human artist learning.

So you are wondering if I'm saying AI is just as good as a human artist? Absolutely not, there is nuance to art AI will never understand. Emotion, experience, adaptation. AI can only do what it knows and 'what works.' It cannot adjust because a color is too bright, or the lighting is wrong. These are the things an artist decides as they work. AI can only follow set paths.

So, in short, I find your logic flawed, and secondly, I find this thread to be a thinly veiled attempt to snipe at people who use AI. You are entitled to your opinions. We are not required to follow them.

 

[Michael Angellus]

"Live and let Live"

"Can't we all just get along?"

"Agree to Disagree"

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone..."

Pick any one you like, I've got more.

 

[Allyson Locke]

Yes, I look down on you

Heard.

 

[Trenton12]

Probably best to just drop this conversation. Opinions are noted. Best to just move on.

"Live and let Live"

"Can't we all just get along?"

"Agree to Disagree"

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone..."

Pick any one you like, I've got more.

No, we can’t. These are empty platitudes that people like to say to make themselves feel better about contributing to a system and a machine that hurts people. You should know this as an author.

 

[Trenton12]

Heard.

Good.

 

[Aselia Verd]

Good.

No, we can’t. These are empty platitudes that people like to say to make themselves feel better about contributing to a system and a machine that hurts people. You should know this as an author.

Well, you won't be around long. Bye!

 

[Michael Angellus]

So much for being kind to each other. Have a great day

 

[Trenton12]

So much for being kind to each other. Have a great day

Is stating facts not being kind? I dont want to be mean. However is saying that people who make the sausage should be paid is mean and being on their side relentlessly is mean, and not kind. I will be guilty of that. I can be mean if you want?

 

[John Locke]

Ok, everyone has a right to their opinion. But the Site's policy on AI has already been posted and clearly laid out by Site Staff.

This thread is devolving quickly and everyone needs to take a step back and breath. I'm going to lock this thread now. Anyone who has any issues please reach out to me privately.