Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos

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A problem of three dimensions

Grand Admiral, First Order Central Command
I was gonna make this in RP discussion, but I figure it might be better to toss ideas around a bit here first before we see what the general public has to say.

Basically I'm noticing that one of the issues in the current ACA Invasion is, for lack of a better way to put it, sense of scale, especially when it comes to how individual writers view that scale. Specifically, you're talking positioning and movement. This is an issue in all writing, honestly, but it's especially tricky when you figure three dimensions with no terrain (normally) and little to go off relatively.

Realistically, battles in space would probably involve ships moving at very high relative velocities past their target at whatever optimum range is (another whole discussion could be had on that issue) spitting as much firepower as they could in the short period of time when they're at that range, and then going through the whole deceleration-turn-accelerate process again.

Star Wars doesn't really work like that, though, despite what some have done in the past. At least in canon we see a lot of stuff like this:
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It'd be absurd in hard SF, but we all know Star Wars ain't that, so it works out fine. Thing is the alternative (used to great effect, for example, by [member="Captain Larraq"] at Dromund Kaas) is relativistically sound and I would hate to see rules put in place restricting it. But using actual physics it becomes rather trivial to outmaneuver someone who's sticking with more traditional movement. After all there's nothing that should be able to stop a Star Destroyer from slingshotting around a planet at .3 G (there's already artificial gravity and inertial dampers to keep the crew safe, after all).

The easiest way to resolve things is discussion with your opponent and agreeing on certain details. Failing that, what's to be done (assuming anything needs to be done at all).

[member="Valiens Nantaris"]
 

Beowoof

Morality Policeman :)
[member="Cyrus Tregessar"]

I am starting to feel more and more like maps are the answer. Perhaps always the answer.
 
[member="Cyrus Tregessar"]
Let’s just say that the biggest hindrance to all of this is that Star Wars canon itself doesn’t know what to do.

It’s not cinematically exciting to have two ships firing from 10,000km away, so they move to close range, as if this was the era of Trafalgar not space.
Likewise with 3D, it’s extremely difficult to show cinematically.
When it comes to books, it’s often hard to convey the proper sense of scale considering most authors are not obsessed history nuts like us, or may have been deliberately told to keep it vague.

My view on the matter is that fleeting is an unregulated mess. We’re not going to change that, but if we can find a way to do a tactical fleeting primer we might be able to educate people somewhat.
 
Grand Admiral, First Order Central Command
[member="Beowoof"] [member="Valiens Nantaris"]

Maps would help to a point, maybe. But are you gonna do 3-d maps? Not to mention factors like the rotation of a ship, or velocity vector vs. facing, and so on. I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, they may well be a great help, I'm just not sure that more rules benefit anything anymore, there's even a risk of oversimplification. Streamlining fleeting to Trafalgar in Space isn't exactly a desirable outcome either.

As it were, the only fleeting battle I've seen to completion was against [member="Ashin Varanin"], and we both agreed to keep it vague on purpose. Exact numbers were not used, nor was there much fuss about positioning or acceleration. As a counterpoint, Manaan is a good example of where maps and stats and etc. was all very enjoyable to read (can't say how things were for participants, but I understand there was some drama, especially for the OS).
 
[member="Cyrus Tregessar"]
I don’t go for too vigorous a setup for the simple reason that no one really knows how these 1.6km slabs would really work, and Star Wars is so full of physic-defying behaviour that pushing too hard is counterproductive.

In the end I write these fleeting battles like 3D versions of Jutland mixed with the fighter dogfights of Midway.

Strategy, 3D placements and rotation all play a major role for me, but I don’t belabour the point much.

I might do a separate thread on the problems of fleeting and how/if they can be fixed.
 
[member="Cyrus Tregessar"], [member="Valiens Nantaris"]

I try to always include at least one section in every naval combat post where I go into detail on what I envision the ships as doing in relation to local planets and space... so other readers can get a good mental image of what I'm trying to do. That, and I often include a summery of what each ship is doing, how damaged it is, and what it's targeting at the end of the post.

Obviously, the more descriptive your writing, the better the experience you'll have and (often) the better you'll perform IC due to the respect other writers show to the effort you put into your actions.

Personally, I'm a fan of high-speed dogfighting or kiting of a target. I'm also a fan of "off grid" sensor and targeting support, as well as pinpoint hyperspace maneuvers.

Because physics.


But the really complicated stuff like high-speed rotation of the ship to spread incoming fire over a larger area of hull and preventing critical hits? I save the fancy stuff for when my back is really up against a wall or when my opponent tries to throw math/firepower/bs at me.
 
I like using 3D movement against slower ships like the Immortals.

Also make use of the fact there's no up and down in space, so having a ship going upside down to fire directly down onto something doesn't matter either.
 
Valiens Nantaris said:
I like using 3D movement against slower ships like the Immortals.

Also make use of the fact there's no up and down in space, so having a ship going upside down to fire directly down onto something doesn't matter either.

All sorts of fun stuff can be done with positioning, rotation, and agile corvettes/fighters. But when it comes to Star Destroyers moving around...


Try playing Fractured Space on Steam. The physics they have... with the exception of trying to put you on a 2D grid, and not letting you roll or bow up/down... the overall speed and feel of the ships is actually fairly spot on for how these huge ships should feel and is very helpful with trying to come up with tactics and positioning.
 

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