woop woop

[io eyeballs]

(This but with another seat)​

By dkubina​

Intent: A two seater swoop for io and the Rat Eaters swoop gang to intercept other swoops and speeders, even in the tight alleys of an ecumenopolis like Antecedent.

Development Thread: If necessary
Manufacturer: Jen Phoenix and Levo Holdings
Model: N/A
Affiliation: The Red Ravens
Modularity: No
Production: Semi-unique
Material: Durasteel
Role: Recon, anti-speeder
Height: 1.3 meters
Length: 3.5 meters
Width: 1.3 meters
Weight: 800 kg
Minimum Crew: 1
Optimal Crew: 1
Propulsion: Repulsorlift, two ion thrusters
Top Speeds: 700 km/h with repulsorlift, 1,200 km/h with ion thrusters and shield not activated, 2,500 km/h with ion thrusters and shield active. (Conceivably could be used in space with manuever rating 5 and Speed rating 4)

Armaments: None
Squadron Count: 180
Passenger Capacity: 1
Cargo Capacity: 10 kg

Misc Equipment: Attachment magseal, front mounted particle and heat deflector shield, lamps, local positioning system with encryption module.

Description: The woop woop is a speeder bike originally designed by Jen Phoenix on behalf of Io for the Rat Eaters, to intercept attackers on Antecedent during the Raven/Suns war. It was not built using industry standard specs and best practices, or even much of blueprint, but through tinkering and trial and error.

Faster acceleration to allow quick interception was the goal, and more powerful engines simply allow that. Continous ion engine usage poses several risks, including to other woop woops that accidentally pass behind each other.

When an alarm is sounded for an attack woop woops can be deployed. If the location isn't known they fan out searching for the attacker. Just flaring the ion engines allows quick, tight manuvers to search Antecedent's terrain. If an attacker is in a speeder, the ion engines will be used just enough to catch up to them, and someone in the passenger seat will either shoot at or beat the speeder with a melee weapon. The ion afterburner can also be used to disable the enemy speeder by flying in front of it. Because the woop woop is uncovered a frontal particle shield was added to protect from windshear and debris, as to catch up with some speeders would mean contending with vehicles that can operate at higher speeders because they're covered.

The magseal activates only when the bike's accelerometers detect high enough changes in speed or direction, so riders don't get stuck on the bike. It has a switch to prevent that if the rider needs to bail during such a manuever.


Strengths:


[+] Fast.

[+] Gets fast quick.

[+] Manuvers well while fast.

[+] Even faster: Heat shield allows speeds comparable to a covered vehicle. Lasts 6 hours stationary, 30 minutes going at top speed. Doesn't protect the sides, because that's not the direction a woop woop goes in.

[+] Particle shield prevents pebbles from turning into bullets.

[+] Local positioning system allows coordinated street sweeps between woop woops, and sharing information about attackers with hooked up Raven comms. Asymmetric encryption using one way functions prevents snooping on this information.



[+/-] Will coat whatever's behind it with ion radiation.

[+/-] woop woops are loud muscle swoops. No sneaking up on anything, but its scares the locals and warns them to stay inside when they're heard.



[-] Without a suit that completes the magseal, riders will fly off the woop woop during manuevers at high speed.

[-] Ion thrusters are dangerous to use in cities, and will likely attract the attention of authorities.

[-] Going too quickly in a crowded location, or worse, while trying to destroy a moving speeder, and requires reflexes comparable or superior to podracing.

[-] Gs: Can accelerate enough to black out or kill riders. It will also damage G-force sensitive equipment, including those on Droids. Will cause nausea and dizziness even with an appropriate G-suit.

[-] Radiation: The thrusters have a magnetic field generator to prevent ion radiation damage to a starship's systems, but it only provides limited protection to someone riding thrusters. Prolonged use will cause ion radiation damage to riders and their equipment, such as blasters or lightsabers.

[-] Ion thrusters can get hot, especially for those in the passenger seat.

[-] Because of bike's unique features, power, and dangers, even experienced swoop riders have to practice on it before using it to its full potential safely.

[-] Logistical hurdles: Repair and maintenance by unfamiliar mechanics takes much longer than most bikes. Replacing them is difficult for the same reason.

 

[Camellia Swift]

[member="io eyeballs"]

Right after checking and debate with others, this is way too fast even as a swoop with ion thrusters.

most speeders are 500-600 and most swoops get 600+ but this is too far, especially for Tier 2. Can we drop the max speed to 600-750/800.

 

[io eyeballs]

Non-shield speed I assume? Changed to 800 km/h like the Koro-2. Only ion speeder I know.

Two mistakes corrected.

Particle shield changed to a particle/heat deflector. Heat deflector is what the ARC 170 used for mitigating air compression in atmospheres. Don't think that makes sense but whatever, I didn't write it. The space speed has been changed to 4, as 5 is the Millenium Falcon according to the ship speed comparison chart and that's only 1,050 km/h in atmosphere, not 2,500 km/h.

[member="Camellia Swift"]

 

[Camellia Swift]

[member="io eyeballs"]

After debate and further research it appears as if I was wrong, but regardless 1000 is still far too fast for anything. And using ship speeds is irrelevant because this isn't a ship and won't be in space. At max please drop it to 700. I apologize for my error granting above that and having to change it. Another judge pointed out my slip.

In addition shields don't make it any faster, so 700 will be the max.

 

[io eyeballs]

Not clear on the issue. What the issue is helps me get through the factory. The easiest issues to discard with are:

1. Shields =/= higher speed is a site rule. There is little to be done.
2. It could be faster if it's called a tiny starship and resubmitted. Like a TIE fighter driven in a city.
3. Company tiers have hard limits on speed for vehicles or starships and a higher tier company is needed.

I understand you've done research and consulted with another judge, and that there was a debate between judges earlier, but this information doesn't tell me what impact it had on the submission.

So some questions:

1. Is shields=/=higher speed a site rule?
2. Is this is a category issue?
3. Is this a company tier speed limit issue?
4. What was the debate on and what were the results?
5. What was the research on and what were the results?
6. Should I contact the judges involved on the above two questions?

Anyone involved in the debate or research is of course free to PM me if its more convenient.

[member="Camellia Swift"]

 

[Camellia Swift]

[member="io eyeballs"]

Shields is common sense. They in no way make a vehicle faster in any way, they just make them safer. Sometimes that may mean they can go faster because of safety risks holding them back, but these are top speeds listed on existing products on site and in canon. We don't have much faster than this, and without dev threads saying otherwise its not going to without sufficient work.

And no, its not a category issue or company issue for the speed either. Its all common sense and what's been established on site and in canon. Yes starships are a faster category, but they are not personal transports planetside and will not be taken down the streets. They're normally landing or forced to land for a reason. Exactly the same as how a speeder or swoop won't be approved to go into space, they have altitude limits.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Swoop
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/BARC_speeder
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/74-Z_speeder_bike
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/36253-skyarch-speeder/
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/27928-khoehng-speeder-bike/
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/27703-cz-v1-stratus-speeder-bike/

No speeder in canon or on site breaks 600 easily. That's just fact. Company tier can effect production and ability, but your selected value is just way too high anyway for any company.

 

[io eyeballs]

We need to know the answer to question 2 to proceed because if it is yes, then I must resubmit. If no, then I must address the concerns brought up.

[member="Camellia Swift"]

 

[Camellia Swift]

[member="io eyeballs"]

I just told you it isn't, its right there in my post above you. . . . . because you're not getting this approved in the starship section either because ships aren't speeders, they aren't going to fly through the streets. You would be denied on concept.

It could be faster if it's called a tiny starship and resubmitted. Like a TIE fighter driven in a city.

No

 

[io eyeballs]

I have to ask again, because all the examples given are of repulsor craft. The woop woop's ion thrusters have not been addressed. I need to know why.

[member="Camellia Swift"]

Edit: Notifications tell me that I was mentioned by [member="Spencer Jacobs"]. I don't see the post.

 

[Camellia Swift]

[member="io eyeballs"]

You're submitting a speeder/swoop vehicle. Your character can't go any faster than that with this technology and he wouldn't survive either the G forces would kill them anyway. Not to mention millimeter level course correction would be nearly impossible as well, also leading to quick death scenarios.

Starships can go that fast because of inertia dampeners built into them which is part of the cockpit system among other reasons. And no for the last time, you would not be approved submitting a tiny starship instead.

You've fought me over the same issue 3 times now and you've been given clear answers each time that it just isn't possible. And this won't clear as a starfighter because repulsors don't work without gravity.

Please accept the decision and edit the submission or be denied, there will be no more discussion.

 

[io eyeballs]

I feel its a little unfair to declare discussion over as discussion hasn't occurred with me. I've only asked for clarification so far. I haven't presented any research of my own, addressed concerns, or made positive arguments. I haven't been heard yet.

Knowledge of what was required of me is the only reason I have been insistent about clarification. They help me reduce my posts to just what is needed, and save both judges and myself time. I thought I had made this clear. If not, sorry. This is all done in good faith.

It was implied that the ion thrusters had been denied if you read between the lines, but it was never mentioned. I was left to guess. Why, of course, was not discussed either, but I'll note it was not needed. I appreciate being told why, but all I needed to know was if ion thrusters had been ruled out as a category issue for swoops. That I simply couldn't put one on. This was a possible interpretation of being given a list of only repulsor craft when top speeds were asked for, and no ion craft mentioned. Like the Koro-2, which I mentioned earlier. It was reasonable for me to ask this.

There is one last easy to discard issue: Dev threads. If dev threads are all that's necessary, the submission already says I'm willing to do them. I can't do them without knowing how long they are, what they have to be about, and why. If I know that, then we may be done here.

I have of course been doing research throughout all this myself, and this has led me to the conclusion the bike is under-powered for a tier 2 company, but I didn't want to bother you with that research yet. I will make some short explanations why I'm generally increasing speeds, but for now I will avoid getting into a longer discussion addressing concerns until I know what dev threads I'd need to do and why.

TIEs were 1,200 km/h. They were mass produced, cheap and should be available to a tier 2. This speed is now the non-shield speed, up from 800 km/h.


The Sunstrider has a speed of 725 km/h, and is mass produced by a tier 2 company, and is more in line with the woop woop's intent, as opposed to all the examples given which were general purpose or military approvals. If research of prior approvals led to lowering the speed, this new information leads us to conclude that its reasonable to now increase speeds of the repulsor to 700 km/h from 650 km/h. The repulsorlift speed has been increased to that.

What was the research that originally led to speeds of 700-800?

[member="Camellia Swift"]

 

[Allyson Locke]

[member="io eyeballs"] [member="Camellia Swift"]


Denied on two reasons:

• The judge several times has told you that the concept of a speeder going the speeds of what you're attempting would not get approved
• What you're submitting is a VEHICLE not a STARSHIP or a FIGHTER. Comparing it to a TIE fighter is like comparing apples to bananas.

Also you've not once taken the advice of the judge who is here to help you create something balanced and plausible. You've argued every point without taking in any consideration what information she has presented. Constant difficulties will result in suspension and banning from the Factory.

You may enter this into second chance if you wish.