WC Mk I/II "Wiuca"

[Popo]

[member="Cira"]
I'm unsure how you mean to reduce the use in space and hyperspace in this context. It's feasibility in deep space has the same limitations as a TIE fighter's and its hyperspace capability is entirely nill. Also, unsure on how the picture has any issues in part because it fits the description and in part because I've used WWII images for submission many times in the past, black and white as well as color, without issue. I'll take a look around and see if something makes more... sense to what you're looking at after the main meat of the submission is sorted out.


[member="Jamie Pyne"]
I'm not 100% sure where you got that website to be completely honest. I've never seen it before and that is definitely not what I've based this on at all. The engine and the rudders utilized by the submission use the page found for Etheric Rudders on Wookiepedia which replace the need for Attitude Thrusters on starfighters, though feasibly it could replace any attitude thruster on any ship if made to the appropriate size needed.

Etheric Rudder:

The etheric rudder was a device for maneuvering starfighters. It allowed them to make sharp turns without the use of attitude thrusters. Etheric rudder prototypes were used on Recon-Xs.

An attitude thruster was a type of small thruster that was installed on all starships. Small compared to a vessel's main sublight drive, these engines were used to maneuver a ship within realspace, providing attitude adjustments as required.

I understand that your interpretation is the site you linked, however the submission approved follows the interpretation I gathered and bounced off others with mindsets geared towards ship design and star wars physics (no, I didn't ask Larraq. For evidence of this I would like to point out Exhibit A: the lack of bells, whistles, and biological components on said starfigher)

The interpretation gathered was as described when explaining how the ship works in the Second Chance thread.

It works via etheric rudders, a canon technology that IC'ly is used to allow X-WIngs and starfighters to maneuver through space without the use of retro-thrusters and such. OOC'ly, it was a contraption created to explain why starfighters bank and turn like aircraft in space. It was never specified how they work exactly or if its a physical moving part or energy technology/projection. All the engine its equipped with does is assume it is or can be a physical moving part and puts those etheric rudders around a rotating axle to make a "propeller" that works in space. More etheric rudders mounted in traditional areas on the craft allow it to maneuver as appropriate.

As for functionality in space for prolonged periods of time... The ship has no hyperspace capability which limits it entirely from utilizing that form of transportation. Gravity wells do not affect etheric rudders otherwise you'd have starfighters in novels drifting all over in deep space regardless of carriers and bases as I've yet to see an attitude thruster mounted on a TIE Fighter or X-Wing. What *does* limit the ship in a space setting is its dependence on a base of operations, again much like a TIE Fighter. It requires a ship or static base capable of not only housing and resupplying the craft, but also launching it based on its unique requirements for take-off and landing. Essentially, while this starfighter could go into deep space, it really shouldn't as it's not designed for it. Limited supplies, life support, and the inability to hyperjump anywhere means that deep space, regardless of momentum, is essentially a death sentence for the Wiuca.

Essentially, the ship is designed to function around a fleet or planet. By default, most fleeting instances are in gravity wells of planets. This is not a long range recon ship or a ship designed to go out on long range patrols, it is a fleet starfighter. By default its going to operate in gravity wells 99% of the time short of [member="Valiens Nantaris"] holding a dogfighting arena event for pilots in the literal middle of nowhere lol

 

[Jamie Pyne]

[member="Popo"]

I am not going to discuss the speculation you had with other members of the community about this submission's feasibility, regardless as to whether that was Larraq or someone who joined yesterday as it is neither here nor there and has no potential to sway my opinion either way.

As for the site that I linked, it was in the midst of a busy day, and it appeared to have a basis of actual theoretical engineering behind it, however, I did not in fact notice the disclaimer at the top of the page indicating that this was merely his own interpretation of said vague tech. Despite that, I do not believe etheric rudders function at all in the manner that you are suggesting.

As you've quoted from the wookie: "It allowed them to make sharp turns without the use of attitude thrusters."

I don't understand how this is then translated into becoming a propeller for a starship. A rudder is not a propeller, it's a means of performing turning (X-Axis) as stated in the wookie, and I am guessing that the Wookie took that interpretation due to these quotes from the Star Wars book Red Harvest.

"Leia lurched forward in her seat, held back only by the belt, as Jaina reversed throttle and kicked the etheric rudder right. There came a metallic thump behind them -- C3PO hitting the wall, Leia guessed." ... ""Leia managed to turn her head to see the droid leaning in against the metal jamb, and then to see him fly away, with a pitiful cry, as Jaina kicked the etheric rudder again, putting the ship into another sudden fishtail."

While the Wookie correlates the etheric rudders to attitude thruster replacement, I don't find that sufficient enough evidence to claim a propeller starship based on a single piece of incredibly vague, distant fringe canon. It is woefully underwhelming in terms of its wording. Can you please point me to a single instance of a legitimate propeller starship? Or technology aside from this rudder that can further explain this as a possibility? I cannot seem to find any. I'm not generally one to deny a second chanced submission, but the idea of this passing is becoming distant.

 

[Popo]

[member="Jamie Pyne"]

I don't understand how this is then translated into becoming a propeller for a starship.

Alright, let's see if I can break it down. If an etheric rudder allows a ship to make turns and maneuvers much like it can with an attitude thruster, then it must create friction or "friction" in some manner or form. Since starfighters bank and turn in the movies and books (for example, the fishtail explained in your example) it stands to reason that in or out of deep space, they function appropriately. Now, since they operate on friction/"friction" to operate, then the angle is all important much like the flaps on an airplane. Its never stated if these components are a physical item mounted on the craft or some sort of energy projection.

Assuming they can be either or both, the engine mounted on this craft takes a small number of physical rudders and places them in a circular mounting around a rotating shaft to make a propeller. Keeping in mind that propeller blades are considered airfoils as are wings, flaps, rudders, etc. it stands to reason that the propeller functions on the same friction/"friction" base that all etheric rudders utilize. This means that while the etheric rudders on the wings/areas of the starfighter allow control of movement, the engine and propeller/etheric rudder array mounted on the craft allow the craft to be "pulled" forward giving momentum and speed.

For examples of ships with clear use of etheric rudder technology, I've found three though only one utilizes a true propeller. The others simply utilize etheric rudders in a physical sense. The propeller one is the Robida Colossus, the ship that initially lead the original FJ to agree that the ship itself broke no rules about genre and the like. The images show propellers used at the rear of the ship and I've found no contrails or ion trails to show it uses any other engine. That, coupled with the Ganathan's use of steam technology to power their engines tells me that propellers, while unorthodox, are not impossible or improbable in the universe.

The others are a pair of Chaos canon ships, one submitted in May of this year and the other submitted a while back.

 

[Jamie Pyne]

[member="Popo"] I apologize for the delay. The issues with the website have prevented me from accessing SWRP at work (which is where I use the site about 99% of the time as I don't have time or energy after my second job and/or on the weekends.)

That being said, here's my proposal:

• Only one of these propeller type starships has ever been mentioned in even EU canon, therefore I would like to see both models dropped to Semi-Unique.
• Clearly indicate that this is prototype technology.
• Please re-word this submission so that it does not give the impression that the etheric rudders dictate the means in which starships operate in the Star Wars universe.

 

[Popo]

[member="Jamie Pyne"]
No worries, it happens. I've been more or less just putzing around as is.


I... really can't feasibly drop them down to that low of a production. It makes absolutely no sense from an IC standpoint and from a design standpoint. Again, the engine which seems to be the problem is not semi-unique which makes it questionable to do so for the craft itself.

Again, it's not prototype technology in all fairness. The engine is not listed as a prototype and neither are any components, canon or chaos canon, on the craft.

If the issue for the submission is the potential of "locking in" how etheric rudders function in some form or another, then what I can do is clearly define in the submission that Tenloss manufactured etheric rudders function in that capacity. This means that canon rudders are still open to whatever interpretation, nothing is "locked in", and it theoretically prevents issues in the future. I'm even open to putting this submission on hold briefly to put up a submission for a Tenloss rudder that does exactly as I've described and clearly lists that only Tenloss rudders work in such a way in order to ensure no one way of interpretation is set for a canon item.

I'm more than happy to meet in the middle even if it means I have to bend over backwards to do so so long as it, yknow, makes sense for the spirit and intent of the submission. I'm really trying not to be a stick in the mud about things at the end of the day

 

[Popo]

[member="Jamie Pyne"]
Hey, not sure if things weren't touched because word was passed along I was in da hospital or if life hopped up and kicked you in the tail, too, but I'm back and ready to go if you are

 

[Jamie Pyne]

[member="Popo"] I apologize for the delay and your hospitalization.

Very well. Make the notation that the manner in which these rudders operate is not the galactic standard, but rather a means in which Tenloss has adhered them to this project's purpose.

I would ask however that this not become standard practice in the future. I'm willing to work with this submission only due to the very loose affiliation with canon, but that does not waive free future submissions based on the approval of this.

 

[Popo]

[member="Jamie Pyne"]
Works for me. I'll tackle this in the morning as I just took some strong pain meds and don't wanna mess up the type-y type-y

 

[Jamie Pyne]

[member="Popo"] Status on this?

 

[Jamie Pyne]

Moved to Factory Archives - If you want to remove from the archives, please feel free to tag Raziel, Jamie, or Cira.