Development Threads and You

[Darth Avida]

Recently there have been some concerns over how judges in the factory have been asking for additional posts to submissions which already carry a development thread behind it. Generally it is because of not meeting standards, but there are times where those who have effectively reached the standard are still asked for more. As this is a concern shared between some factory judges, I would like to discuss this here. I am not asking for a standardized 10 posts for unique, 15 for semi-unique, etc, simply viewpoints on this, questions, and concerns about this.

 

[Darth Avida]

[member="Cira"] [member="Draco Vereen"] [member="War Hydra"] [member="Popo"] [member="Raziel"] [member="Spencer Jacobs"]

 

[Laira Darkhold]

1) Lets work on some rough guidelines for asking for additional Development for submissions

• How far off normal is the Submission
• Are the posts above and beyond or just scrapping by
• And is it really necessary to ask for more. I know we have all done it, but how necessary is it (I know this is case by case, more just when looking at it, gauging how much would be needed, and looking for examples when there are some)
• Is there a limit to what you can do with enough dev (Personally I believe so, but others disagree so I wanna gauge the room)

2) Lets get a written rule that Restricted Materials can't be used for Mass Production
There are two or three Mass Produced Restricted Material items flowing around and there is talk of more.

3) Lets get a written rule that people can both complete and use the same thread for a restricted material if they both meet the requirements (IE 10 posts each for unique, 20 posts each for minor) if they so choose.
For Example http://starwarsrp.net/topic/52466-mining-our-own-coretosis/This thread was used by Kian and Seraphina, and that is legit. But its normally accepted that 1 thread = 1 submission. I am simply asking that it be clarified to the public that this is allowed.

 

[Darth Avida]

[member="Draco Vereen"]

3) Lets get a written rule that people can both complete and use the same thread for a restricted material if they both meet the requirements (IE 10 posts each for unique, 20 posts each for minor) if they so choose.

http://starwarsrp.net/topic/56305-factory-qa/?p=853180

1, Dev Threads, can we do twice as long a dev thread and have two different writers dev 2 technologies for each in it, so it gives people motivation to collaborate?

http://starwarsrp.net/topic/56305-factory-qa/?p=853185

1. Absolutely

I quoted indirectly as to not give unnecessary @Mentions to people who needn't be tagged (and I'm not sure if tagging regular members here will alert them or not, so I'd rather not in either case)

 

[Darth Avida]

[member="Draco Vereen"]
To further clarify, it has not been stated directly in the Restricted & Banned Items list that it is allowed, but it has been stated over the course of the Factory Q&A by the Factory Administration that it is allowed. This was done by a prior administrator, however, so I would like to double check with [member="Spencer Jacobs"]:

1, Dev Threads, can we do twice as long a dev thread and have two different writers dev 2 technologies for each in it, so it gives people motivation to collaborate?

 

[Darth Avida]

To clarify the concern relayed to me/skype chat about factory judges deciding to tack on more work:
Say someone submits a minor produced suit of armor that is completely okay and has 40 posts of dev or so (somewhere around there, nothing specific), it includes phrik or some restricted material. Generally speaking, this is okay. If nothing is wrong with the submission itself it should be approved (and we're assuming nothing is at the moment). However, the factory judge in question has decided to tack on an extra 5 or 10 posts (let's just say they were at 38 and get asked to bring it up to 50 or something, which is largely unnecessary). Now, without development threads included that same judge might have asked for 30-40 posts of development and then been fine with it at minor production, and the person who submits the sub has the idea that such might be the case the next time.

The concern is that asking for extra development for subs that clearly have enough posts for their stuff is leading to submitting incomplete submissions with no or lacking development threads. Meaning that submission that was prepared with 38 now has a counterpart subbed without one and is asked to reach 40 posts for minor. See the trend?

This is, of course, entirely theoretical, but the frustration is still present in those who submit things that are basically ready for approval and get asked to tack on a few more posts either to satiate the judge's nerves or for some reason other than objectively thinking how many quality posts would have been okay, and if it needed edits if it had the right amount of posts there.

 

[Darth Avida]

So, to address this concern in question form:

• How do you decide what is the appropriate amount of development thread for a standard, ready-to-go, submission that just needed a development thread?
• Have you been guilty of this? (You don't need to answer that, it's a thought-provoking question)
• And lastly, how should/could we fix this behavior?

 

[Darth Avida]

2) Lets get a written rule that Restricted Materials can't be used for Mass Production There are two or three Mass Produced Restricted Material items flowing around and there is talk of more.

I am on board with this.

 

[Darth Avida]

Is there a limit to what you can do with enough dev (Personally I believe so, but others disagree so I wanna gauge the room)

Yes. You can't dev your way into something that doesn't fit canon, into something that is broken, and so on. It doesn't matter if you do 60000 (just a random big number to make this seem big and scary, don't panic) posts or 30, you won't be getting a lightsaber gun. It doesn't fit in canon, it doesn't fit and isn't allowed here. There's other cases that this comes up, too, but those are generally fringe cases that are resolved case-by-case and should be.

 

[Cira]

3) Lets get a written rule that people can both complete and use the same thread for a restricted material if they both meet the requirements

As of now, both writers meet the criteria for restricted materials at a minimum if the thread is 10 posts long, with more posts based on if they want anything more than that.

So, you are suggesting that those who have met the requirement at 10 posts for say, phrik mining and both want to get phrik, then they will have to do 20 posts instead of the ten they already made to complete it at the most basic level per restricted rules.

So basically.. you are asking 10 posts per writer.

Ultrachrome (( Objective : With three or more other characters your character is familiar with, complete a story about how you met in the distant past –OR— with two or more characters your character is not familiar with, become trapped in hostile territory and escape. ))

This means that for ultrachrome, you want to standardize the requirements for 'basic" use at...

a minimum of 30 posts for three writers to get the basic ultrachrome challenge done...

60 posts to get to limited....

90 posts to get to minor...

Correct?

 

[Laira Darkhold]

[member="Cira"]
Yes, but I wanna make it obvious and clearer so when people look at the Restricted Materials Page they see that they can each get Songsteel with one thread. Or in another example I did. I caused a devastating defeat to a mandalorian in a duel, who suffered a devastating defeat at the hands of an FU. So we would get Beskar and Cortosis respectively.

 

[Darth Avida]

3) Lets get a written rule that people can both complete and use the same thread for a restricted material if they both meet the requirements (IE 10 posts each for unique, 20 posts each for minor) if they so choose. For Example http://starwarsrp.ne...-own-coretosis/This thread was used by Kian and Seraphina, and that is legit. But its normally accepted that 1 thread = 1 submission. I am simply asking that it be clarified to the public that this is allowed.

To build on this, and this is just a rough idea of how to make sure this is available to everyone every time they open the Restricted & Banned Items list (all locations):

• IV. Completing restricted item objectives may count as development threads for the submissions using the restricted item. Each completed objective usually only counts for one submission.

​to

• IV. Completing restricted item objectives may count as development threads for the submissions using the restricted item. Each completed objective usually only counts for one submission per writer.

​I don't agree with the idea of adding 10 posts per participant per production level, as it would be pretty ridiculous to require 30 posts for unique production of ultrachrome (example), it should not ever be codified that there is a specific post count limit we look at, as the only established limit for any level of production is 10 posts which is the minimum for a development thread to even be counted.

Edit: Changes in green

 

[Allyson Locke]

[member="Lily Kirsche Kuhn"] I like this I'll look into it more when I'm off work today, also Id really like to hear from the other judges.

 

[Cira]

[member="Spencer Varanin"]

Bump

 

[Allyson Locke]

[member="Cira"] wasn't this clarified and handled by the standardization of dev threads pin?