Because people seem to think that the Imperial Remnant is some sort of shoot-off of the First Order, I will be making a list with points as to why we are unique and not to be affiliated with them as such.
WIP
WIP
Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos
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Why the Imperial Remnant is not a copy of the First Order; A compiled list of logical points. (WIP)
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RIP Carlyle Rausgeber
"It's all been bloody marvellous..."
[member="Tanomas Graf"]
I should begin this with a caveat. I don't think the Remnant and the First Order need to be enemies immediately. I think some of the OOC angst and other stuff is to an extent warranted, but it has gone on for far too long. Ultimately, in my opinion I think the IR and FO are similar, which isn't a bad thing. But if the Remnant wants to survive, it needs to brand itself as something different. It needs to have some sort of gimmick, like the Silver Jedi did initially, before it could just drop that when it expands large enough to be an imperial faction in its own right.
But now onto the meat:
Well aesthetically speaking, there are some distinct similarities. That isn't to say there aren't any differences, but the fact remains that the First Order and Imperial Remnant sit as two distinctly similar factions.
The first similarity is that of government. From the outset, the Imperial Remnant and First Order are not divorced. Both rely on an autocratic leader to command things. From what I have gathered, the heirarchy is similar, and the way things work seems to be the same. There is a difference and that is, that while Sieger Ren is an NPC, Tanomas Graf is very much real, and takes a more active role in governance.
Another similarity is the military. Both groupings differ to the exact same rankings for their most senior officers. Grand Admiral is the highest title one can reach in both navies, as is Director in respective intelligence services.
This similarity in the military forces also extends to military assets. Both groups use star destroyers modelled on the imperial-ii and victory-class destroyers, as well as canon model AT-AT's, TIE Fighters and the like.
The difference here, is that the First Order, while using these canon materials branches out and develops their own while the Remnant relies on canon and Legacy.
The only major difference, is the usage of force users in both. The Knights of Ren, and the Imperial Guard/Inquisitors act in drastically different ways, with the Knights of Ren acting more like the latter, and there being no answer to the knights.
Overall, the Remnant is similar to the First Order. Both are groups who wish to inherit the legacy as Chaos' sole 'imperial' faction, but can't.
In the Remnant's case, it's because, at least in my opinion, they're trying to break into a market already pretty much taken care of by the First Order. Why join the IR when we already have an Empire that works and functions? Of course there will be those who wish to forge a new frontier, or those who see the First Order in of itself a bastardisation of the Remnant in canon, but those are few and far between.
In the First Order's case, the rise of the Imperial Remnant in of itself is more of an annoyance than anything. While vice versa, the the Remnant's very survival is at stake trying to diffientiate itself from a faction which, to be honest is the hegemonic imperial one on the map, the First Order doesn't need to ultimately be worried. The only annoyance comes when the Remnant poach members through underhanded tactics.
Ultimately, if you ask me, the Imperial Remnant would be better served, actively trying to develop new and unique works based on the creative minds here, rather than relying on ships that even by Disney's new canon don't exist. Not picking fights with people like the Black Tie Syndicate and other organisations would be a start .Either that, or constructively working with the First Order to try and crush the mutual threat in the Galactic Alliance and Free World Coalition.
But hey:
I should begin this with a caveat. I don't think the Remnant and the First Order need to be enemies immediately. I think some of the OOC angst and other stuff is to an extent warranted, but it has gone on for far too long. Ultimately, in my opinion I think the IR and FO are similar, which isn't a bad thing. But if the Remnant wants to survive, it needs to brand itself as something different. It needs to have some sort of gimmick, like the Silver Jedi did initially, before it could just drop that when it expands large enough to be an imperial faction in its own right.
But now onto the meat:
Well aesthetically speaking, there are some distinct similarities. That isn't to say there aren't any differences, but the fact remains that the First Order and Imperial Remnant sit as two distinctly similar factions.
The first similarity is that of government. From the outset, the Imperial Remnant and First Order are not divorced. Both rely on an autocratic leader to command things. From what I have gathered, the heirarchy is similar, and the way things work seems to be the same. There is a difference and that is, that while Sieger Ren is an NPC, Tanomas Graf is very much real, and takes a more active role in governance.
Another similarity is the military. Both groupings differ to the exact same rankings for their most senior officers. Grand Admiral is the highest title one can reach in both navies, as is Director in respective intelligence services.
This similarity in the military forces also extends to military assets. Both groups use star destroyers modelled on the imperial-ii and victory-class destroyers, as well as canon model AT-AT's, TIE Fighters and the like.
The difference here, is that the First Order, while using these canon materials branches out and develops their own while the Remnant relies on canon and Legacy.
The only major difference, is the usage of force users in both. The Knights of Ren, and the Imperial Guard/Inquisitors act in drastically different ways, with the Knights of Ren acting more like the latter, and there being no answer to the knights.
Overall, the Remnant is similar to the First Order. Both are groups who wish to inherit the legacy as Chaos' sole 'imperial' faction, but can't.
In the Remnant's case, it's because, at least in my opinion, they're trying to break into a market already pretty much taken care of by the First Order. Why join the IR when we already have an Empire that works and functions? Of course there will be those who wish to forge a new frontier, or those who see the First Order in of itself a bastardisation of the Remnant in canon, but those are few and far between.
In the First Order's case, the rise of the Imperial Remnant in of itself is more of an annoyance than anything. While vice versa, the the Remnant's very survival is at stake trying to diffientiate itself from a faction which, to be honest is the hegemonic imperial one on the map, the First Order doesn't need to ultimately be worried. The only annoyance comes when the Remnant poach members through underhanded tactics.
Ultimately, if you ask me, the Imperial Remnant would be better served, actively trying to develop new and unique works based on the creative minds here, rather than relying on ships that even by Disney's new canon don't exist. Not picking fights with people like the Black Tie Syndicate and other organisations would be a start .Either that, or constructively working with the First Order to try and crush the mutual threat in the Galactic Alliance and Free World Coalition.
But hey:
Butch Mahan
Si vis pacem, para bellum
In response to that, I have several points to bring up about your answer
"The difference here, is that the First Order, while using these canon materials branches out and develops their own while the Remnant relies on canon and Legacy." (Motherkarking quote system being a pain in the ass)
Everything up to this point is fairly true. Our military ranks are similar, our bases for tech are similar, our governments are indeed similar. But this final point is not true. What you claim is that we are just suckling the beauty of the wikia rather than making our own tech, but we've made 6 factory ships, and several other factory submitted tech, some of which entire original, some not as much. What you are doing is not calculating for the lack of writers, dedicated ones. Without dedicated writers less tech is made, the First Order has well over a dozen and a half wirters who semi-often make tech. We only have three, we are working on it, it just isn't fast.
"In the Remnant's case, it's because, at least in my opinion, they're trying to break into a market already pretty much taken care of by the First Order. Why join the IR when we already have an Empire that works and functions? Of course there will be those who wish to forge a new frontier, or those who see the First Order in of itself a bastardisation of the Remnant in canon, but those are few and far between."
You forget the most obvious difference, much larger than the force user branch. The Imperial Remnant is evil, the First Order is not. Your writers have vehemently fought others who claimed your faction is evil. Your faction doesn't fit the bill as the Empire, hence why we even exist. You are Imperial, and being large, you inherit most of the Imperial crowd. But you are still Portugal, you stave off the truly "Empire" crowd.
" In the First Order's case, the rise of the Imperial Remnant in of itself is more of an annoyance than anything. While vice versa, the the Remnant's very survival is at stake trying to differentiate itself from a faction which, to be honest is the hegemonic imperial one on the map, the First Order doesn't need to ultimately be worried. The only annoyance comes when the Remnant poach members through underhanded tactics. "
This is just passive aggressive and rude. I don't see how this fits into the argument of how similar the two factions are. All you do here is insult our faction as some shameless copy trying to stay afloat, and the First Order as some first place shindig. Why is this in here?
"Ultimately, if you ask me, the Imperial Remnant would be better served, actively trying to develop new and unique works based on the creative minds here, rather than relying on ships that even by Disney's new canon don't exist. Not picking fights with people like the Black Tie Syndicate and other organisations would be a start .Either that, or constructively working with the First Order to try and crush the mutual threat in the Galactic Alliance and Free World Coalition. "
Your first sentence I already rebuttled earlier, we are making new works, it just takes time and we are pretty brand spanking new. I don't understand how picking fights with criminals doesn't help the Imperial message of order. And your last sentence is just recruiting.
In my opinion, the Imperial Remnant would do best if it did exactly what keeps it from dying and being sucked into the First Order, be evil. There aren't any true evil major factions save for the Imperial Remnant. The Iron Empire stops genocide, and the First Order protests any such claims of being a bad guy. That's where we come in.
Thank you for your thoughts.
[member="Carlyle Rausgeber"]
"The difference here, is that the First Order, while using these canon materials branches out and develops their own while the Remnant relies on canon and Legacy." (Motherkarking quote system being a pain in the ass)
Everything up to this point is fairly true. Our military ranks are similar, our bases for tech are similar, our governments are indeed similar. But this final point is not true. What you claim is that we are just suckling the beauty of the wikia rather than making our own tech, but we've made 6 factory ships, and several other factory submitted tech, some of which entire original, some not as much. What you are doing is not calculating for the lack of writers, dedicated ones. Without dedicated writers less tech is made, the First Order has well over a dozen and a half wirters who semi-often make tech. We only have three, we are working on it, it just isn't fast.
"In the Remnant's case, it's because, at least in my opinion, they're trying to break into a market already pretty much taken care of by the First Order. Why join the IR when we already have an Empire that works and functions? Of course there will be those who wish to forge a new frontier, or those who see the First Order in of itself a bastardisation of the Remnant in canon, but those are few and far between."
You forget the most obvious difference, much larger than the force user branch. The Imperial Remnant is evil, the First Order is not. Your writers have vehemently fought others who claimed your faction is evil. Your faction doesn't fit the bill as the Empire, hence why we even exist. You are Imperial, and being large, you inherit most of the Imperial crowd. But you are still Portugal, you stave off the truly "Empire" crowd.
" In the First Order's case, the rise of the Imperial Remnant in of itself is more of an annoyance than anything. While vice versa, the the Remnant's very survival is at stake trying to differentiate itself from a faction which, to be honest is the hegemonic imperial one on the map, the First Order doesn't need to ultimately be worried. The only annoyance comes when the Remnant poach members through underhanded tactics. "
This is just passive aggressive and rude. I don't see how this fits into the argument of how similar the two factions are. All you do here is insult our faction as some shameless copy trying to stay afloat, and the First Order as some first place shindig. Why is this in here?
"Ultimately, if you ask me, the Imperial Remnant would be better served, actively trying to develop new and unique works based on the creative minds here, rather than relying on ships that even by Disney's new canon don't exist. Not picking fights with people like the Black Tie Syndicate and other organisations would be a start .Either that, or constructively working with the First Order to try and crush the mutual threat in the Galactic Alliance and Free World Coalition. "
Your first sentence I already rebuttled earlier, we are making new works, it just takes time and we are pretty brand spanking new. I don't understand how picking fights with criminals doesn't help the Imperial message of order. And your last sentence is just recruiting.
In my opinion, the Imperial Remnant would do best if it did exactly what keeps it from dying and being sucked into the First Order, be evil. There aren't any true evil major factions save for the Imperial Remnant. The Iron Empire stops genocide, and the First Order protests any such claims of being a bad guy. That's where we come in.
Thank you for your thoughts.
[member="Carlyle Rausgeber"]
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