Super Star Destroyers Work in 4.0

[Malok]

Canon just unveiled a 60 kilometer Mega Star Destroyer.

Let's talk about Super Star Destroyers, Factory.

Per 4.0, the Factory is in its most balanced state ever. Canon is the foundation of the templates and the implementation of ratings has opened the Factory to players more. I think Chaos can handle an extra couple thousand meters of ship without there being a problem.

First and foremost, Major factions can deploy as many ships as they want whenever they want as of right now. There is nothing stopping an Admiral from rolling into a skirmish or invasion with several thousand, nay, several hundred thousand meters of fleet. Sure, it can (and will) be frowned upon, but there aren't any fleet limits in the established rules. So, why do we shut out an iconic piece or Canon when we can already field as many guns as an SSD in a single post?

So, let's introduce SSDs up to a cap of Executor/Eclipse size. If a faction wants one, have them go through a flagship thread while also having a minimum number of hexes inside their territory. If they go below that number of hexes due to war, then "their Nation can no longer support such a massive warmachine" and the submission can't be used in PvP until they regain their lost ground.

And then, as with all things Factory, we trust our judges to have balance be the dictating factor for an SSD. Make a new cookie cutter and let those who want to have their SSD-sized cake eat it too.

60 kilometers, guys. Jesus H. Tef.

 

[Teynara Jeralyr]

[member="Darth Metus"]

Honestly, what's the point of this if, as you say, Major Factions can already roll out with several hundred thousand meters worth of ships on a whim?

Surely this would just be adding another massive easy-to-abuse, resource-intense platform for people to treat as though it were an automatic battle-winner?

Also worth noting that they're so resource-heavy that a single one would eat up the planetary budget of several worlds before you considered the rest of the fleet. Chaos has always been quick to let that one slide, but there comes a point when it gets ridiculous...

I'm also fairly certain we passed that point a while back. This would just be throwing unnecessary fuel onto a raging inferno of unnecessary NPCs.

 

[Tmoxin Temi]

[member="Darth Metus"]

 

[sabrina]

1000 post with 20 writers involved to make one

 

[Darth Abyss]

I think the issue isn't just the amount of work a faction has to put in to build one. In my opinion some altered version of the Flagship system would do that fairly well.

What is an issue on the other hand is how these ships could be abused if there aren't systems in place to limit them in some way. First of I think they shouldn't justr be powerful but vulnerable, and most importantly they should be valuable.

Consider this: To build a single ssd an absolute massiv amount of time and resources has to be spend, making it the most expensive toy a fleeter can have. The decision shouldn't be how to use if effectively, but if to use it at all. Getting destroyed would be really hurtful to the faction that owns it in terms of the waste, and it should be handled that way. No chaos hand waving of having a new on if it gets destroyed, plus something like the flashpoint system to enforce a drawback on that faction, like broken moral etc that limits their option as a result.

Also they should have very clear, very defined weaknesses. Not all factions go the way of throwing endless kilometers of fleet at the enemy, simply because it's not fitting for the feel and style of all factions, and yet they still need to be able to take one down if needed, so it won't become the core of every invasion or skirmish it is in.

Just my two cents.

 

[Malok]

[member="Teynara Jeralyr"]

Because, right now it's something we can't have per the rules.

Now, while spamming ships is frowned upon and was used to illustrate a point, any actual abuse can be reported. Powerful submissions are typically adorned with disclaimers nowadays to ward off any potential abuse, and infringing that can/will result in the sub being pulled.

Now, yes, SSDs are expensive as all sin IC which is why their production would be tied to a nation's total hexes. The canonical First Order is not the canonical Galactic Empire in terms of size, but it can still afford to make and field a 60 kilometer Mega Star Destroyer. So, based on that I'd say that factions the size of the CIS or Commenor on the map now shouldn't be able to "afford" fielding these.

And I say afford with quotes because we don't have a credit system, factions can sub whatever they want to the factory, and only company fleets have finite limitations.

Suffice it to say: Why not allow players who want this Canon icon have their Canon icon?

 

[Malok]

[member="Darth Abyss"]

I think a "one per major faction" rule suffice, alternatively.

[member="sabrina"]

Flagship threads are a lot of work, by default. Let's place value on faction territory size for once when it comes to the Factory.

 

[Darth Abyss]

[member="Darth Metus"] I don't think so. That would literally only mean a major faction can only have one. In no way would it make people think twice to just throw it into every engagement to crush everything. It would just be a massive, unfair superweapon that in no way reflects the drawbacks that come with spending half your empires resources on building one. Would just be another, bigger ship and no one would get actually fear losing it, because you can just make a new one. Large, active factions don't struggle much when reaching a certain post amount after all.

 

[Ellie Mors]

Suffice it to say: Why not allow players who want this Canon icon have their Canon icon?

Balance?

 

[Malok]

[member="Darth Abyss"]

We have Factory Judges for a reason.

I am fully confident that any vessel that is approved would be thoroughly balanced and treated with exceptional scrutiny. A ship's dimensions do not make it unbeatable, the whole of Canon cinema says so.

Rogue One, Ion Torpedo Run.
Death Star, killed by X-Wings.

Have faith in the Judges to do their jobs and the presence of an SSD won't be an instant win for anyone. Furthermore, we currently can field ships of 5,000 meters and there hasn't been an ounce of issue. We also had event ships of extraordinary power from years past, and monumentally powerful ships made from development threads. No issues of note, because the factory personnel and RP staff are capable and competent.

I don't think artificially making Achilles' Heels should be a thing.

 

[Malok]

[member="Lily Kuhn"]

What's unbalanced about a ship, albeit big, going through standard Factory process? Can you elaborate please?

 

[Ellie Mors]

[member="Lily Kuhn"]

What's unbalanced about a ship, albeit big, going through standard Factory process? Can you elaborate please?

Its strengths would vastly outweigh its weaknesses? We still have banned technology and limitations in factory 4.0. These things are parameters which help to retain the balance that the factory goes for.

 

[H3xle]

It isn't the judgments that would be unfair, it would be people shrugging shots from anything but another SSD level ship.

It already happens with the current system, no reason to further unbalance things by throwing even more massive ships into the fray.

I agree with Abyss, if it were to happen, losing one would have to have consequences. Making one would have to entail actual work because otherwise it would just end up being another massive yet disposable ship.

 

[Malok]

[member="Lily Kuhn"]

Then insist that the weaknesses balance out the strengths.

The Galactic Empire has a Diet, Super Star Destroyer - would you consider that possessing strengths that vastly outweigh the weaknesses?

[member="Acanthus"]

There's a report button for a reason.

 

[Laira Darkhold]

I have a question.

How many Flagships have actually been approved since they were introduced?

[member="Darth Metus"]

 

[Travis Caalgen]

[member="Darth Metus"]

Not necessarily; It was made to have firepower and shielding, at the price of being slowest ship in the galaxy, an inability to make a complete turn in under seven minutes, and a destroyer-sized fighter complement. It was also made in a system that was already accommodating to balance it properly, unlike what you're suggesting.

There are only about two flagships in the galaxy, and you know what that means?

Even if you lot get your precious nineteen-kilometer super star destroyers, you'll never pursue them because it's 'too much effort' when two flagships or a larger number of star destroyers can do the same job just without the added weaknesses. Putting up a suggestion thread every six months isn't going to sway the staff's opinions either.

So calm down, little Veruca Salt.

 

[sabrina]

[member="sabrina"]

Flagship threads are a lot of work, by default. Let's place value on faction territory size for once when it comes to the Factory.

Faction size companies included in making it, I think anything that size would need a thread and half, just to build it.
Then it is just a big target, that means it actually counter productive.
Take a basic aircraft carrier, truly powerful ship, but how many ships are deployed to defend one.

 

[Darth Abyss]

at the price of being slowest ship in the galaxy, an inability to make a complete turn in under seven minutes.

Kinda off topic, but got a link to that ship? It sounds absolutely magnificent.

 

[Travis Caalgen]

[member="Darth Abyss"]

http://starwarsrp.net/topic/111284-inv-pellaeon-admonitor-class-imperial-super-star-destroyer/

 

[Malok]

[member="Draco Vereen"]

Two - And frankly the current scarcity of Flagships makes me think this would work even more. There's not a mad dash of factions trying to make Flagships, even the current reduced requirements aren't seeing an increase in submissions. So, if it's Flagships are already rare, why implement further limits?

[member="Travis Caalgen"]

Okay, one, there's nothing little about me good sir. I weigh as much as an Area Code.

Second, your SSD is a prime example of what I'm talking about. It's balanced. Powerful, but balanced. The additional guns of a true SSD would have to possess equal drawbacks or it gets canned. Furthermore, it's not about how often they're submitted, it's about having the ability to submit them. Why limit what can be submitted just because they're rarely submitted?

Furthermore, Factory 4.0 is literally the best foundational system to implement this. It literally uses Canon as the cookie cutter, you can't get much more balanced than that. And, just because a subject has been denied before doesn't mean the situation is the same now. It's not, 4.0 is here and is optimized for Android Oreo.

Also, weren't you big on the SSD train the last time this was discussed?