Moving forward with no dev submissions brainstorm

[Cira]

This will be the discussion brainstorm for Factory Staff.

I'll be listing stuff here along with [member="Raziel"], [member="Jamie Pyne"], [member="Braith Achlys"].

Timeline: April deadline.

1.Reduction of Normal Dev threads
A) Two options that provide a way to be approved through edits, balance if strengths/abilities / and weaknesses.
B ) Edit and review all rules
C) we must finish all cookie cutter templates to provide a standard.
E) review new ship templates

Concerns: while balancing and over powered items would not be an issue, it does place a hamper on ambitious submissions no longer being viable.

2.Restricted Materials missions
A) review for fine tuning

3. Companies missions
A) review canon companies rules
B ) remake to missions

4. Unique Canon Items missions
A) remake to missions.

 

[Raziel]

Restricted Material Missions: these must be completed before the material/technology can be used in a submission

Company Expansion Objectives: these must each be completed before a company can increase in Tier. E.g. buy out an existing company of a lower tier to expand the type of services you provide. Build a new facility on a new world during a factions dominion. Carry out espionage and steal the plans of a rival comoanys plans.

 

[Raziel]

Two thoughts on vehicles and ships. Option 1 is we can move to less numerical and more descriptive templates as below.

Spoiler

Corvette
Link: http://starwars.wiki...m/wiki/Corvette
Variants: Personal Transport, Envoy, Scout, Assault, Freighter, Patrol Ship, Dropship
Average Length: 50-200 Meters.

Spoiler

OUT OF CHARACTER INFORMATION

Spoiler

• Intent: (Example: 'A personal weapon for Darth Scabious' or 'an advanced armored personnel carrier for the Republic')
• Image Source: (Please link to where you found the image, or to the original artist if possible. TinEye or Google Image Search can help.)
• Canon Link: (Please link the canon link if applicable canon item.)
• Development Thread: (The main way people work for their toys, though most submissions don't require a development thread. Restricted items require specific development threads. Substantial development threads can help judges approve more powerful submissions. If in doubt, put 'If necessary,' and a judge may or may not ask you for one. Threads cited here must be at least 10 quality posts and must be cited as the full thread title, no abbreviations.)(Restricted Items require specific development threads. The more posts, the more powerful the submission can be. Links: Banned & Restricted Items)
• Primary Source: (Please link and cite the sources which you are modifying for your use in your submission.)

PRODUCTION INFORMATION

• Manufacturer: (Kuat Drive Yards, BlasTech Industries, [Insert Major Faction Name], [Insert Character Name], etc. You must link to any Chaos Company submissions.)
• Model: (Example: TIE (Twin Ion Engine). For submissions where a model wouldn’t be appropriate, such as a custom walking stick, put ‘N/A’ for ‘Not Applicable’.)
• Affiliation: (Individual Character Name (an individual PC/NPC who is permitted to use this item), Company Name(s) (Companies authorised to use this submission), Faction Name(s) (Factions authorised to use this submission, Closed-Market (Any character can use this if they have explicit permission through, for example, a marketplace purchase), Open-Market (May be used by any character without permission from the Manufacturer), other potential options include a submitted NPC unit, or another general organisation/group. Optional. If you chose Limited, Semi-Unique, or Unique in Productivity above please list what groups/characters can use this submission in role-plays.
• Production: (The scale is Unique (Only One Character), Semi-Unique (Only A Handful of Characters), Limited (Only A Select Group Of NPCs/PCs), Minor (Any Character, Only Select Groups Of NPCs), Mass-Produced. (Anyone.))
• Material: (What is your submission made out of? Certain materials are more resistant, or vulnerable, to certain weapons. Example: 'Durasteel.' Typically requires development: Restricted Materials. Link: Manufacturing Compounds, Metals, Compounds)

TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS
A typical vessel has an average rating for Armament, Defenses, Hangar, Maneuverability, Speed. Increasing any specification by a level requires a drop in production, reducing another specification or adding a significant weakness.

• Classification: (Corvette, Personal Transport, Envoy, Scout, Assault, Freighter, Patrol Ship, Dropship)
• Length: (Via Metric System. Max: 200 meters. Examples: Defender Class Light Corvette: 94 meters, CR92a Assassin-Class Corvette: 139.25 Meters, Marauder Class Corvette: 195 meters)
• Width: (Via Metric System. Max: 200 meters. Examples: Defender Class Light Corvette: 34.7 meters, CR92a Assassin-Class Corvette: 58.95 Meters, Marauder Class Corvette: 131 meters)
• Height: (Via Metric System. Max: 200 meters. Examples: Defender Class Light Corvette: 29 meters, CR92a Assassin-Class Corvette: 16.97 Meters, Marauder Class Corvette: 22 meters)
• Armament: (You may provide your armament in list format and must provide your vessel an Armament Rating.Choose from: None, Very Low, Low, Average, High, Very High, Extreme. Armament Ratings are scaled in relation to the class of ship, meaning a Starfighter will not equate to a Destroyer. Armament Ratings provide only basic weaponry unless the ship also has a breakdown of weapons. Please link to all Factory Submissions used. Links: Starship Weapons, Approved Technology)
• Defenses: (You may provide your shield and armor systems in list format and must provide your vessel an Defense Rating. Choose from: None, Very Low, Low, Average, High, Very High, Extreme, where None is a man in a space suit hanging on to an engine, Average is typical defense, and Extreme is heaviest defense with heavy armor plating and multiple layers of powerful shields. Defensive Ratings are scaled in relation to the type of ship, meaning a Starfighter will not equate to a Destroyer. You should list particular systems under special features. Please link to all Factory Submissions used. [Links: Approved Technology)
• Hangar: (Please provide the amount of fighters this submission can hold in it's hangar by count of Squadrons, which hold 12 average Starfighters. The higher your squadron count, the lower your Armament and number of Special Features should be. (Average: 0 | Max: 2 for a 200m vessel).
• Maneuverability Rating: (Choose from: None, Very Low, Low, Average, High, Very High, Extreme. How agile is your ship? Can it take tight turns? This is relative to the size of the vessel (e.g. a Corvette with Low Maneuverability will be more agile than a Star Destroyer with a Low rating.
• Speed Rating: (Choose from: None, Very Low, Low, Average, High, Very High, Extreme. How fast is your ship in normal space? How fast can it take off, how fast can it speed through a planet's atmosphere? This is relative to the size of the vessel (e.g. a Corvette with Low Speed will be quicker than a Star Destroyer with a Low Speed.
• Hyperdrive Class: (The lower the number, the faster the ship. You may use decimals. (Minimum: .3 | Max: 10.) Average Hyperdrive Class: 2 Going below 1 typically requires balancing out with other weaknesses. Links: Hyperdrive, Hyperdrive Comparisons)

SPECIAL FEATURES
(Provide all of your submission's special features, including non-combat items and special weapons, here in a list. Please link to all Factory Submissions used. Typically requires development: Stealth technology. Ensure capabilities from features are included in the Strengths list. Links: Starship Weapons, Approved Technology, Shields, Engines)
Strengths:

• (Provide, in list format, a minimum of 1 strength of this submission.)

Weaknesses:

• (Provide, in list format, a minimum of 1 weaknesses of this submission.)

Description: (Describing your submission's history is optional. Please provide a detailed account or link of each special feature that is listed in this submission. All miscellaneous descriptive elements go here, such as Cargo Capacity, Passengers, Consumables, Crew, etc.. There is no requirement for amount of words here so long as you meet the minimum requirements for your special features.)



Example fdor Star Destroyer:


Hangar: (Please provide the amount of fighters this submission can hold in it's hangar by count of Squadrons, which hold 12 average Starfighters. The higher your squadron count, the lower your Armament and number of Special Features should be. (Very Low: 2, Average: 4| High: 10| Extreme: 12 for a 1700m vessel).

Or we could go for what Tef did for the podracer template:

http://starwarsrp.net/topic/105181-vehicle-template-podracer/

The submitter writes out all the descriptive stuff, strengths and weaknesses and avoids gun counts etc.

The Judge then provides the ratings for armament, defences, speed and maneuverability based on the effort that went into the submission, the production level, the quality of the submission and the manufacturer (e.g. does it have a massive major faction behind it or is a Tier 3 company trying to mass produce a destroyer)

 

[Cira]

[member="Raziel"]

The latter is so subjective, though. And far more hands on. Not to mention, it also severely limits people who have trouble posting lengthy submissions.

I dunno. Tell me the pros and cons of each.

 

[Darth Avida]

I really, honestly, have never ever encountered a problem with a vehicle submission caused by its armament or any of its stats, really. They are the easiest submissions to judge, and the only reason we pushed for new templates was to make it easier for a submitter to not have to modify the existing template to best fit the type of vehicle they are submitting.

There was never a problem with just saying "This has a blaster turret mounted on the nose of the speeder" or "the cannon on this tank is a standard mass driver".

Unlike starships, vehicles have not been tainted by the min-maxing game - mostly because we have no ratings for them to exploit and most people see vehicles and NPCs in general as largely unimportant in "competitive" roleplay.

I am totally fine with keeping the vehicle templates basic structure (give me the list of your weapons, how fast it moves, etc). Unlike starships, most people can get a general idea of how fast a speeder moves and so on because it is so firmly documented in canon and is very relatable to the real world.

 

[Darth Avida]

Company Expansion Objectives: these must each be completed before a company can increase in Tier. E.g. buy out an existing company of a lower tier to expand the type of services you provide. Build a new facility on a new world during a factions dominion. Carry out espionage and steal the plans of a rival comoanys plans.

How specific are we going to make these company expansion objectives/missions? Can we not just ask for a log of growth that takes place from one tier to the next, like we do with force user promotions, along with a required amount of submissions produced at X production?

 

[Julius Sedaire]

[member="Braith Achlys"] - I think making it a little more open and streamlined sort of how you just suggested will see a lot more people trying the Corporate game and getting beyond tier 3-4. Which, to me, is a good thing. A very good thing. It never made sense how specific the tier ups were (but admittedly, I'm bad at the Corporate thing) to me.

 

[Raziel]

Spoiler

Name	Production	Class	Length	Width	Height	ARMAMENT RATING	Defense Rating	SPEED	MANOEUVRABILITY	Squadrons
Heavy Corvette	Mass-Produced	Corvette	200	70	40	High	Moderate	Very Low	Low	0
Corvette Carrier	Mass-Produced	Corvette	200	70	40	Low	Average	Low	Low	1
Picket Corvette	Mass-Produced	Corvette	100	30	20	Low	Low	Moderate	Moderate	0
Anti-starfighter frigate	Mass-Produced	Frigate	250	80	50	Low	Low	High	High	0
Heavy Frigate	Mass-Produced	Frigate	500	170	90	High	High	Low	Low	0
Frigate Carrier	Mass-Produced	Frigate	500	170	90	Very Low	Average	Low	Average	3
Escort Frigate	Mass-Produced	Frigate	250	80	40	Low	Low	High	High	0
Heavy Cruiser	Mass-Produced	Cruiser	1000	330	170	High	High	Low	Low	0
Cruiser Carrier	Mass-Produced	Cruiser	1000	330	170	Very Low	Average	Low	Average	6
Escort Cruiser	Mass-Produced	Cruiser	700	230	120	Low	Low	High	High	1
Elite Cruiser	Unique	Cruiser	1000	330	170	Extreme	High	Low	Low	2
Star Destroyer	Mass-Produced	Destroyer	1700	570	290	High	High	Low	Low	2
Balanced Star Destroyer	Mass-Produced	Destroyer	1700	570	290	Average	Moderate	Average	Low	6
Carrier	Mass-Produced	Destroyer	1700	570	290	Very Low	Average	Low	Average	10
Patrol Destroyer	Mass-Produced	Destroyer	1360	450	230	Low	Low	High	High	2
Elite Destroyer	Unique	Destroyer	1700	570	290	Extreme	High	Low	Low	4
Balanced Battlecruiser	Mass-Produced	Battlecruiser	2400	800	400	Average	Average	Average	Average	6
Super Carrier	Mass-Produced	Battlecruiser	3000	1000	500	Low	Average	Low	Low	16
Heavy Battlecruiser	Mass-Produced	Battlecruiser	3000	1000	500	High	Very High	Very Low	Low	4
Large Military Station	Mass-Produced	Orbital Defence Platform	3000	3000	3000	High	High	Very Low	Very Low	6
Large Civilian Platform	Mass-Produced	Orbital Docking Platform	5000	5000	5000	None	Average	Very Low	Very Low
Heavy Flagship	Unique	Flagship	5000	2000	1500	Extreme	Extreme	Very Low	Low	6
Flagship Carrier	Unique	Flagship	5000	2000	1500	Average	Average	Average	Low	45

Dev free starships, ba;ancing just production with ratings

 

[Cira]

[member="Braith Achlys"]

Not quite. It was made specifically clearer that "misc dev" sort of things must go.

So we have to think critically how this will move forward.

Companies will be reviewed by me and streamlined, but yes, we will be looking towards more expansion specific business threads.

 

[Cira]

[member="Raziel"]

Looks good.

 

[Darth Avida]

[member="Raziel"]
I like the chart.

 

[Julius Sedaire]

[member="Raziel"] - The chart makes ships a lot less intimidating. One of the big reasons I hesitate to judge them is i'm not sure what I should ask for dev on. I.E. how much more is too much more, so to speak. That char lays out a perfect middle line to let me know, and I like that.

 

[Cyrus Tregessar]

So to finally put these thoughts on paper, with removing dev (especially for starships, but I imagine at least some this still applies to other types of subs) we seem to be looking at making everything balanced around a certain 'Average.' I have some concerns regarding that. If you were around for when Armament Ratings were made mandatory, this may seem a bit like deja vu.

Basically I fear it might limit creativity to some degree, and you end up with all the mass produced faction ships looking very same-y. What dev allowed people to do was bend the rules (hopefully in a fair and regulated manner, though obviously that was not always the case) and in doing so do something different from the template. My concern is that with removing dev we have removed that option.

I mean, yes of course there's always the bit about lowering the production but for Major Factions that can seem... awkward. I also realize that this is a very niche sort of problem to have, given the relative rarity of fleeting and people who are concerned enough with it to care.

Now I'm all for removing dev, so basically I wonder if there's any thought given towards if there will be leeway granted. There's been some talk of quality of the submission being a metric, and that would work fine as an alternative, though there's potential issues there as well.

Anyway I just wanted to bring this up now that I'm back on a normal schedule before things are all finalized and I didn't get a chance to throw my two cents in.

 

[Darth Avida]

So to finally put these thoughts on paper, with removing dev (especially for starships, but I imagine at least some this still applies to other types of subs) we seem to be looking at making everything balanced around a certain 'Average.' I have some concerns regarding that. If you were around for when Armament Ratings were made mandatory, this may seem a bit like deja vu.

Basically I fear it might limit creativity to some degree, and you end up with all the mass produced faction ships looking very same-y. What dev allowed people to do was bend the rules (hopefully in a fair and regulated manner, though obviously that was not always the case) and in doing so do something different from the template. My concern is that with removing dev we have removed that option.

I mean, yes of course there's always the bit about lowering the production but for Major Factions that can seem... awkward. I also realize that this is a very niche sort of problem to have, given the relative rarity of fleeting and people who are concerned enough with it to care.

Now I'm all for removing dev, so basically I wonder if there's any thought given towards if there will be leeway granted. There's been some talk of quality of the submission being a metric, and that would work fine as an alternative, though there's potential issues there as well.

Anyway I just wanted to bring this up now that I'm back on a normal schedule before things are all finalized and I didn't get a chance to throw my two cents in.

We are centering around balanced submissions, whether that is "average" or not is up for debate. You can still submit a starship with relatively maximum armaments, only instead of supplying development and achieving an immediate approval you will need to make sure other aspects of your submission balance out what strengths you want.

This doesn't mean we'll want to go 50/50 strength and weaknesses or anything as radical as that, just dont expect a ship with extreme/20 armament to be approved above something like semi-unique or limited production.

 

[Cyrus Tregessar]

[member="Braith Achlys"]

Fair enough, and it's very possible I'm overthinking a problem that won't actually materialize. I guess we'll wait and see and deal with it if it arises.