Approved Tech Maherei's Body Suit

[Blacktail]

Intent: A space suit that is subtle, nimble and conforming without being too fragile.
Development Thread: None
Manufacturer: Some blackmarket military-industrial supplies outlet way back when, and a tailor.
Model: n/a
Affiliation: [member="Blacktail"] (Personal)
Modularity: None
Production: Semi-Unique
Material: Transparisteel, Gold-Aurodium
Classification: Multipurpose
Weight: 7.5 kg.
Quality:

• Thermal (ex. blasters): 3
• Kinetic (ex. slugthrowers): 4 (one-time), 2
• Chemical (ex. acid): 6

Special Features:

• Photoreactive Fibre
• RipStop
• Thermal Gel
• Shockweb
• SureGrip

Strengths:

• Blaster and flamer resistance a tad greater than common Armorweave.
• Fire-retardant.
• Tear-resistant.
• Virtually solar radiation-proof.
• Adjusts in opacity to prevent burns from light saturation.

Weaknesses:

• Though sufficiently flexible and non-constricting, not as much as nylon, latex, silk, or the usual fitted materials.
• Is, in the grand scheme of things, actually quite fragile for an environment suit.
• Photoreactivity is not very effective in motion or in a colorful, high-contrast environment, and is ineffective in the ultraviolet and infrared band.

Description:
Maherei's body suit and armor liner is a form-fitting suit that covers everything from the neck down, made of a transparent metallic textile that was likely intended for use in ship and/or solar sail construction. The high gold-aurodium content in the fiber alloy makes it sufficiently radiation-proof. It is also naturally flame-retardant and automatically adjusts opacity to match luminosity. Photoreactive fibers in the weave enable the suit to adapt to the ambient lighting of the environment and reflect a rudimentary gradient of associated colours (broad portions of the suit (like an arm or a leg). It changes one flat color across the entire suit, or large portions of it. In other words, this would have large camouflage patterns that could be changed (turned on or off) at will. It may provide concealment at distance with the right circumstances. If someone is directly looking at it, and especially if they are looking for it, they will likely see it). A semi-solid permutation of thermal gel layered on the inside of the material allows it to reactively - and temporarily - absorb or mitigate kinetic energy, as well as helps dissipate internal heat, insulates the suit from temperature extremes and maintains a moderately air-tight seal in the event of a breach. The soles and gloves are padded in SureGrip for extra traction. As a final touch, the length of the suit is interwoven with a shock web as a last line of personal defense.

These suits are fitted for Maherei's exact dimensions and will not fit others; it may fit another adult Mnenchei female with some or much modification.

Primary Source: n/a

 

[Gir Quee]

RESEARCH REVIEW
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Star Wars Canon:
Pending initial review
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Starwars Chaos:
Pending initial review
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WITHOUT DEV THREADS
Pending initial review
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WITH DEV THREADS
Pending Initial review
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SUGGESTIONS
Pending Inital review

 

[Gir Quee]

Production: Semi-Unique

How many are we talking about roughly? A suit for personal use and a couple of spares if the first gets damaged? Or is this something that we'll see multiple characters using at once?

Sufficiently non-constricting, though not as much as one would imagine.

I don't understand this part, mostly because I don't understand the practical implications of this weakness. Does this mean that it's baggy so that it catches on things easily, etc?

The entire suit is coated in a photosensitive microscopic crystal layer, enabling it to blend its color with the environment when powered, particularly for the blackness of space or the vibrant neons of a nebula.

This looks like a stealth feature to me if we're talking about something that is adaptive camouflage. Because of that, I'd like to see a 10 post development thread. On the other hand, if this is something that simply allows it to change the entire suit to a single color, I don't see a need for development, but I'd like to see that explicitly written as such.

 

[Blacktail]

How many are we talking about roughly? A suit for personal use and a couple of spares if the first gets damaged? Or is this something that we'll see multiple characters using at once?

It said in the description it won't fit anyone else but her (ergo the former). So unless someone makes a clone of her... (hey, ya never know... owo)

I don't understand this part, mostly because I don't understand the practical implications of this weakness. Does this mean that it's baggy so that it catches on things easily, etc?

A body suit is usually seen as easy to wear because it clings to one's form and doesn't have loose weight. Conversely, a form-fitting heavy textile isn't going to be as flexible as, say, nylon or latex because it's a bit more rigid and won't stretch or expand as easily. That's just the nature of the medium.

This looks like a stealth feature to me if we're talking about something that is adaptive camouflage. Because of that, I'd like to see a 10 post development thread. On the other hand, if this is something that simply allows it to change the entire suit to a single color, I don't see a need for development, but I'd like to see that explicitly written as such.

The canon is not a cloaking device, it just changes colors like a chameleon.

...Small crystals that reflected the ambient colors of anything around it. When applied as a coating...it gave the suit camouflage properties.
-Wookiee

If you're saying explicitly and literally a single color, I'd have to contest that both on the fact that gradients of said color are not technically a single color, and the fact that literally anyone can just throw on actual camouflage - probably to greater effect (due to camies having patterns). The difference - and benefit - is none.

 

[Gir Quee]

It said in the description it won't fit anyone else but her (ergo the former). So unless someone makes a clone of her... (hey, ya never know... owo)

I asked specifically because this part:

it may fit another adult Mnenchei female with some or much modification.

Most clothing/armor submissions that I've seen that are intended specifically for one character do not list if or how the armor can be adapted to other people. It sounds like we're specifically talking about the first option though, so we're good on this issue.

A body suit is usually seen as easy to wear because it clings to one's form and doesn't have loose weight. Conversely, a form-fitting heavy textile isn't going to be as flexible as, say, nylon or latex because it's a bit more rigid and won't stretch or expand as easily. That's just the nature of the medium.

So what does this mean in terms of practical gameplay effects? In the classic dice-based RPG, this sounds like it would be a minor dexterity penalty associated with light armors. Is that the case here?

The canon is not a cloaking device, it just changes colors like a chameleon.

The Standardization of Development threads lists stealth technology, not just cloaking devices, as requiring development. While it's possible to have some very minor stealth technology pass through without development (like the suit changing into one color), anything that is going to have practical stealth effects is likely going to require development unless there are severe drawbacks to the compensate for its strength.

In this instance, it will depend on the exact amount of color changing. If we're talking about broad portions of the suit (like an arm or a leg), I am comfortable with it not requiring development at this production level. If we're talking about something that is going to be extremely hard to spot when someone is directly looking at it, then we're talking about development.

 

[Blacktail]

So what does this mean in terms of practical gameplay effects? In the classic dice-based RPG, this sounds like it would be a minor dexterity penalty associated with light armors. Is that the case here?

That's a way of looking at it, yes!



As for the "going to be extremely hard to spot when someone is directly looking at it" thing, it's space, everything is going to be extremely hard to spot. xD

The Long Version:

Spoiler

The question is wholly dependent on the circumstances of both the environment and the observer, simply due to the nature of how optical effects work, how they are perceived and how complex the environment is. Even a tan with a bit of mottled brown or gold can blend in with a wheat field, even though when being exposed sticking out like a sore thumb. Things get even more complex when taking into account what the eye (of various species, no less) can see or the various details of the lens if non-organic, what the mind (or computer) is able to actually perceive without forethought, what affects the light between the viewer and object, distance, light pollution, so on and so forth. For instance, you can take a solid color in GIMP just for example, place it against a group of other local colors, change the shade even a little bit, and immediately notice a significant difference in the brightness or contrast (whether positive or negative) of the whole. Nothing's actually changing color in response, but the effect is still huge. I could even go on to cite the "is the dress gold or blue" viral picture. These simple things can sometimes make it nigh impossible to spot. The most important part is that it is a wholly passive, dynamic effect.

There's no simple answer because there is no one general set of circumstances or factors; it's entirely situational. To get that, one would have to ask a simple question instead of seeking exactness where there is only fluidity. "Does it grow patterns, change colors across a spectrum, etc?" to which the answer is "no," it takes ambient lighting, absorbs it and reflects it across a broad surface. The simplest answer I could have possibly given is that it is analogous to a chameleon, and I'm sure that's what inspired the canon item to begin with (with not entirely different methods either).

The main problem is that most people probably aren't going to immediately visualize the effect the way they would if it were there, physically and tangibly, because they already know there is an object hidden there and they already know what it should look like. There's no way around predisposition in the nature of writing Role Play. That effect is mostly up to interpretation, primarily the observing character's, and the writer should be able to make a logical conclusion based on the factors in the environment (are there a lot of broken up outlines, is there lush overgrowth or lots of solids, is there smoke or fog muting the visible range, etc).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to lecture you or anything. This is mostly meant for anybody who might see the sub and ask a similar question.

Also, I did a bit of work in that industry so I kind of get animated about it, sorry, lol. ^^;

The Short Version:

Spoiler

NO.
YES.

 

[Gir Quee]

That's a way of looking at it, yes!

Please add something about that in there for clarity's sake.

As for the "going to be extremely hard to spot when someone is directly looking at it" thing, it's space, everything is going to be extremely hard to spot. xD

I'm very much aware that the effects of a camouflage are highly dependent on the circumstances from my own experience in the army.

This is not the issue at hand.


The crystals that you have linked me to were used as highly effective and adaptive camouflage by the bounty hunter Mist (basically a visual cloaking device). It is described as being very similar to the active camouflage effect in the Halo game series. If this is the effect that you are going for, this will require development.

If this is not the effect you are looking for, please describe its strengths and limitations unambiguously. For simplicity's sake, describe its effectiveness on a person looking at it directly at it from a range of 5-10 meters against a plain and uncluttered bulkhead.

 

[Blacktail]

[member="Gir Quee"]
They teach you how to wear it but do they teach you how to make it? ;P What you suggested is a good/simple enough point of reference. In fact, I added three different points of reference because one alone just can't set a standard for all the different common factors involved and would be incredibly misleading. I also switched from crystals to fibre since they're virtually the same but the latter has much more descriptive wookiee entries.

Lol, the more I think about trying to make a naturally fluid, complex thing simple and static, the more I come to the evident conclusion that the mechanics of camouflage is the issue. ^^;

~~~

I will say this on a semi-separate note: The way Mist's outfit works is not the same as the way the cloak in Halo works, neither mechanically or effectively. The former blends itself into its environment; the latter blends the environment into itself. One bends, one projects. Projection obviously being the active method ("true" stealth) because it takes the viewpoint on one side and displays it on the opposite, whereas the semi-passive method these rely on is taking in light and reflecting it through crystal particles to disperse the ambient light into a singular blend of colors. This actually isn't too different from a chameleon's natural camouflage, and so the effect is similar (the difference being chameleon camo is actually active and comes from the chameleon). "Very similar [to Halo]" is far from the first thing that comes to mind. Perhaps somewhat similar, in different degrees.

Why is this important? Right now it's not, but it was worthy of note.

 

[Gir Quee]

They teach you how to wear it but do they teach you how to make it? ;P

They actually do. Perhaps not to the same degree that they do in your field, but there is an art to disguising weapons, vehicles, and other field equipment that an individual soldier, regardless of their occupation, is expected to know and understand. They also teach you how to detect it camouflage. There are actually several field manuals dedicated to the subject on multiple levels, from camouflaging personal weapons to disguising entire companies of troops.

I will say this on a semi-separate note: The way Mist's outfit works is not the same as the way the cloak in Halo works, neither mechanically or effectively. The former blends itself into its environment; the latter blends the environment into itself. One bends, one projects. Projection obviously being the active method ("true" stealth) because it takes the viewpoint on one side and displays it on the opposite, whereas the semi-passive method these rely on is taking in light and reflecting it through crystal particles to disperse the ambient light into a singular blend of colors. This actually isn't too different from a chameleon's natural camouflage, and so the effect is similar (the difference being chameleon camo is actually active and comes from the chameleon). "Very similar [to Halo]" is far from the first thing that comes to mind. Perhaps somewhat similar, in different degrees.

The halo active cloak is admittedly a rough comparison. My point was that the photo-reactive coating isn't simply a basic camouflage pattern. I would regard this as a stealth technology because it is actively reacting to the environment and working to conceal its user at a high performance level. This is the actual wording found in The Kathol Outback, on page 20.

Photo-reactive Coating: The armor has been treated with a coating of photosensitive, microscopic crystals that reflect the ambient colors in a given area, making the armor difficult to see in virtually any situation.

Note the underlined portion.


What's currently described in this submission seems less than that, but this is still clearly something that clearly isn't a basic camouflage pattern. Because of that, I will be requesting a 10 post development thread for this submission.

 

[Blacktail]

[member="Gir Quee"]
Ya know what. I wrote a whole long thing citing various points in your posts, and had a whole counter-argument lined up, but kark it. It isn't that complicated.

In this instance, it will depend on the exact amount of color changing. If we're talking about broad portions of the suit (like an arm or a leg), I am comfortable with it not requiring development at this production level. If we're talking about something that is going to be extremely hard to spot when someone is directly looking at it, then we're talking about development.

Short answer: yes.

I think you had it set somewhere in your interpretation that this would be anything like a cloaking device, but the pictures I linked before do this justice. NO. YES. The former is closer to what the crystal does and the latter is what this does (note that any pattern the animal has is a static part of its scales).

As someone who has worked with improvised camo, I am sure you know that very little can go a very long way (for better or worse) in the right circumstances, so "high performance" is a really subjective term for this.

 

[Gir Quee]

[member="Blacktail"], I realize that your opinions may differ from mine on specifics. However, whenever something clearly gives a stealth effect to the advantage of its user, irregardless of how it is achieved, it is stealth technology.

Stealth technology requires a development thread by the standardized rules.

Please tag me when the development is complete.

 

[Blacktail]

[member="Gir Quee"]
My opinion is irrelevant. You said it wouldn't need one.

In this instance, it will depend on the exact amount of color changing. If we're talking about broad portions of the suit (like an arm or a leg), I am comfortable with it not requiring development at this production level.

 

[Gir Quee]

The next sentence right after the one you quoted is coming into play:

If we're talking about something that is going to be extremely hard to spot when someone is directly looking at it, then we're talking about development.

As the sub current reads:

--- Example One: Almost complete concealment of shape stationary at ten meters against a solid bulkhead.

For clarification, what wouldn't require development is something that changes one flat color across the entire suit, or large portions of it. In other words, this would have large, camouflage patterns that could be changed at will. Circumstantially, it may provide concealment at distance with the right circumstances. If someone is directly looking at it, and especially if they are looking for it, they will see it.

 

[Blacktail]

[member="Gir Quee"]
It says concealment of it shape/form, not of its presence. Of course they'll see it if they're looking.

A basically solid colour against a solid colour is obviously going to blend in really well. You're the one who asked for the bulkhead example.

 

[Gir Quee]

[member="Blacktail"], from a 2 dimensional view, this is probably true. In my personal experience, this does not tend to work out very well from a three dimensional view because of shadow and light interaction at this concealed object's scale.

 

[Blacktail]

[member="Gir Quee"]
And that would be something a cloaking device would probably do. Maybe to some extent the Kathol Outback thing too. This doesn't compensate for anything, it just grabs the color next to it and splotches it on. I'll write that out specifically somewhere in the description. (Edit: It's the last line in the description).

 

[Gir Quee]

[member="Blacktail"], noted.

This still needs a development thread because of its effects. Basically anything that crosses the threshhold of a basic camouflage pattern needs a development thread. With that thread, however, you can increase its effectiveness pretty close to what you had written down in the original submission.

 

[Blacktail]

[member="Gir Quee"]
But you said! Three times! You've already stated explicitly what would be considered as not requiring one and I've already said on each single occasion that you were correct.

*head spins*

EDITED: I don't know why the heck I didn't think of this before but I literally copied and pasted exactly how you've described it being as without development into the description. Sorry it took so long and thanks for your patience.

Description:
Maherei's body suit and armor liner is a form-fitting suit that covers everything from the neck down, made of a transparent metallic textile that was likely intended for use in ship and/or solar sail construction. The high gold-aurodium content in the fiber alloy makes it sufficiently radiation-proof. It is also naturally flame-retardant and automatically adjusts opacity to match luminosity. Photoreactive fibers in the weave enable the suit to adapt to the ambient lighting of the environment and reflect a rudimentary gradient of associated colours (broad portions of the suit (like an arm or a leg). It changes one flat color across the entire suit, or large portions of it. In other words, this would have large camouflage patterns that could be changed (turned on or off) at will. It may provide concealment at distance with the right circumstances. If someone is directly looking at it, and especially if they are looking for it, they will likely see it). A semi-solid permutation of thermal gel layered on the inside of the material allows it to reactively - and temporarily - absorb or mitigate kinetic energy, as well as helps dissipate internal heat, insulates the suit from temperature extremes and maintains a moderately air-tight seal in the event of a breach. The soles and gloves are padded in SureGrip for extra traction. As a final touch, the length of the suit is interwoven with a shock web as a last line of personal defense.

These suits are fitted for Maherei's exact dimensions and will not fit others; it may fit another adult Mnenchei female with some or much modification.

 

[Gir Quee]

Awesome. Pending Admin Approval. Thanks! [member="Spencer Varanin"]

 

[Ellie Mors]

Approved.