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Just goes back to my/Cotan's idea that it's possible to be more Light Side or more Dark Side but still be in personal balance with the Force overall. Jedi and Sith are antithetical to each other, and either group using the side not in alignment with their philosophy is of necessity antithetical to that philosophy. With them in existence, yes, conflict is inevitable. If they weren't in existence, and there were two different major force groups where one used the Light, and one the Dark, but they weren't in conflict with the Force itself as well (which is how myself and the character view both orders)? Then, perhaps, war and fighting and death might not be the conflict that results as each side presses against the other.
The storm is both destructive and constructive at the same time, blowing down houses but ensuring that water continues to cycle through the system. The fire that burns the old trees helps the seeds to germinate.
[insert metaphor that doesn't still imply death and rebirth that i can't come up with here that actually further distances us from the idea of war]
Does the river shape the riverbed or does the riverbed shape the river?
That’s my go to question when it comes to examining what the Force is and how it works through the individuals. And no, I won’t say if the Force is the river or the riverbed, because ultimately, I suspect it’s both simultaneously.
But, since we’re getting all schismy lately and nerd fights, I’ll break out my notes from when I thought I’d be talking about the Force in my MLitt dissertation. You don’t need to read them if you don’t want, but it’s the foundation I use for my later thoughts, so it’ll help give more background.
1. How do we view the Force?
-Two ways: Externally and Internally, as in, how do we see the Force function on a narrative level? Specifically, as an objective portrayal of a fundamental aspect of worldbuilding used by George Lucas to tell the story. Or, internally, as from in-universe perspective.
-If externally: how do IRL influences shape how Lucas conceived of the Force and uses it in the story? Lots to be gleaned from his understanding of the synthesis between late-70s liberalism and Taoism here that’s personally been super helpful in discerning how the external morality works. But also, what about The Death of the Author?
-If internally: Are we assuming a sort of moral relativism is in existence or does Star Wars have an absolute truth approach to morality? What is best supported by the text? Regardless, how do the characters view the morality of their universe?
2: How on Jakku do we reconcile the varied interpretations of the Force that seems to exist even within the original six movies?
-Take a page from the Tolkien scholars book and admit that even Lucas seemed to have a lots of ideas that evolved over time and there probably isn’t a concrete answer.
3. Where does that leaves us?
-The Force inspired by the conception of the Tao
-Late 20th century ideas about freedom, liberalism, individual autonomy, and the evils of the late capitalist invention of the military-industrial complex and ‘the Man’ are synthesized with Lucas’ version of the Tao
-Force always seeks to be in balance, but balance never defined. (Bad worldbuilding, George!)
-Strong Platonic/Gnostic influence of physical=inferior/bad and spiritual/immaterial=Good
-Force acts conveniently as a plot device from an external perspective, suggesting that the Force has a will and that will is the direct influence of the Author’s Will
-Even from an in-universe perspective, the galaxy does not look to operate on a strictly causal note, meaning the underlying principle of the universe is fundamental different than ours. Rather than being cause-effect as the driving principle, the galaxy operates based on narrative principles. (Are characters aware that their history is full of non-causal and paradoxical events being the key turning point? Why does Evil, loosely used for tyranny, oppression, greed, and corruption always seem to win until the most dramatic moment when Good, loosely used as a catch all, turns it around unexpectedly and against logical odds?)
-George Lucas said the Jedi are pretty much the ones with the correct understanding of the Force. Death of the Author vs Ex Cathedra here. Which is more important?
Academic Conclusion:
-Indeterminate
but also at the same time
-Yes, that will constantly seeks narrative structure, dramatic tension, and then catharsis.
Now you can see why I didn’t write my dissertation on the Force and Star Wars. That, and even the directors of the very forward thinking Master’s of Fantasy Literature program have somewhat.... narrow views of what is or is not fantasy. But basically, if you seek out the highest possible drama and narrative tension, the Force will include you in its Will.
From a personal, not entirely academic perspective even after running these thoughts and questions through my Highly Trained Regimen of Academic Thought With a British Accent, I think the Force definitely has a Will, but it is not a personal, individual Will. This is derived primarily from my study into the influence of the Tao and Star Wars, as well as the sort of semi-pantheistic perspective the Force is shown as in ANH and ESB, as well as the whole no-attachments thing.
The Force is utterly impersonal.There is no Cosmic Self-Awareness intentionally directing things as one might find in a monotheistic religion. And it’s not so much a force of nature as much as The Force from which nature is derived. It is concerned with Life, in its totality. Hence, the somewhat callous seeming perspective Yoda and Obi-Wan have towards death. Why does dying matter when in doing so our conscious self and awareness is lost into the Cosmic Whole that is the entire galaxy. Ironically, this where is the influences of pantheism clashes with Lucas’ own Cold-War American cultural background that is all about individualism, personal freedom, and essentially, the value of the Self.
And then there’s the question of balance? What is it? How is it achieved or maintained? Is it a purely literal thing where Jedi and Sith have equal numbers in the galaxy? Given the unimportance of material and physical things in the Star Wars cosmology and the emphasis on spirit as superior to physical, that seems like a reductive way of looking at it that doesn’t consider the rest of the values infused in the texts. Is it no Dark side at all? Is it a lost art known only to the Je’daii and then lost in the religious schisms and radicalization that destoyed them? Frankly, I’ve not got the foggiest. From an external view, balance seems to be restored when the heroes win, at least so it’s implied.
But what about the hero’s victory is it that restores balance? Killing Palpsy and redeeming Anakin? Maybe. But I think, again based on the principle of spiritual>physical, it’s something broader: the restoration of equality and harmony.
Palpatine wanted power because he wanted power and enjoyed having the power to chase misery and suffering. Anakin wanted power to cheat death to save Padme. What we see where is the elevation of the Self over the Whole, and a willingness to sacrifice the Whole for the desires of the Self through sheer, naked power and the Will to bend reality to one’s desires. There are strong overtones of Nietzsche there in his conception of master-slave morality.
But what does Luke do to make such a difference in restoring balance? He gives up his power. This is symbolized in throwing away his lightsaber and the power it represents— the power to inflict lethal violence whenever the wielded chooses, the symbolic and historical moral power as a member of the Holy Order of Jedi Knights, and the power to defend himself against violence. Instead, he speaks to Vader person to person, as an equal and sees his humanity that Palpatine has been stripping away from him for years. And it works.
Narratively, it’s genius in both diverting expectations and fulfilling how often we heard that the Jedi way is not through fighting, and that victory could not be achieved by fighting. Defeat could be staved off, and it can set the stage for non-violence to win the true victory, but fighting in and of itself cannot achieve a true victory.
So, does the Force have a will? It seeks balance, but that is not necessarily a Will, as the natural world seeks balance without consciously seeking balance. Abad that for me is the key: the search for harmony within the individual, within communities, and within the metaphysical world. It’s a harmony that places the good of the Cosmic Whole over the good and the desires of the Self, and in the process, the Self can become its best self by giving up its pretension that it’s more important. Paradoxically, the Dark Side seeks to elevate the Self for their personal benefit but end up destroying themselves instead, unless they can relearn how to let go of themselves for the good of the Whole.
Does that count as the Will of the Force? Well, you tell me, does the river shape the riverbed or the riverbed shape the river?
And this is why you don’t go to grad school to study your hobbies and your passions. You’ll never know anything for sure about them again and everything will be subject insomnia fueled off the cuff essays.
My girl Vergere was presented in Matt Stover's glorious New Jedi Order: Traitor as an ambiguous anti-mentor with mysterious motives. She later got retconned by ol' George himself (or so I heard; idk what was happening behind the scenes, I wasn't there) into being just a particularly deceptive Sith. Which, okay, fine, she did allow Jacen to be tortured so that it could "teach him", she parroting many Sith teachings (particularly those revolving around "freedom" by abolishing all personal limitations and any sense of temperance beyond "don't destroy/kill things pointlessly"), and she was working with the Vong, so eh. Sure, she was a Sith.
Anyway, her view of the Force can be summed up nicely with the following quote:
"Light and dark are no more than nomenclature: words that describe how little we understand. What you call the dark side is the raw, unrestrained Force itself: you call the dark side what you find when you give yourself over wholly to the Force. To be a Jedi is to control your passion, but Jedi control limits your power. Greatness requires the surrender of control. Passion that is guided, not walled away. Leave your limits behind. If your surrender leads to slaughter, that is not because the Force has darkness in it. It is because you do. The only dark side you need fear is the one in your own heart."
“Sith? Jedi? Are these the only choices? Dark or light, good or evil? Is there no more to the Force than this? What is the screen on which light and dark cast their shapes and shadows? Where is the ground on which stands good and evil?”
The Force for her is technically just a tool, but if it has a will of its own, it's also eternally beyond our understanding. We can never know what it truly wants or what it's working towards, or even it's true nature. Does it have a will? We don't know, we can't know, so the question is dismissed as irrelevant. Kind of like what Auteme
said about Albert Camus and Absurdism, which is kind of similar to what Jsc
said about the river and Tiland Kortun
about the other river. Lot of rivers in this thread. Anyway, Vergere's method starts to take the Force out of the realm of "religious concept" and into a more nebulous area of "spiritual concept, kind of sort of but not really". It's cobbled together from various sources, much like the rest of SW, and not all of it works.
While we're on the subject, Auteme, you know I love you, BUT. Don't hold up Wookieepedia as the gospel, if that's what you were doing. Or was it Cotan Sar'andor
who did it in my DMs last night? I can't remember. I'm so confused. But for whoever did it, it's like citing Wikipedia as a source. Wookieepedia is an online encyclopedia and a great resource if you need to look something up, but it is extremely basic, simplistic, and is more likely to lead to arguments over semantics than in-depth discussion. It was written by who knows how many people, pored over by editors, and is essentially a Frankenstein monster of differing interpretations. You can use it as a jumping off point for your argument, but for anything that should be analyzed beyond the facts, it ain't gonna cut it. It's not the SW bible. Unless you subscribe to Death of the Author, which I don't.
I think the hardest part of the Force to wrap my head around, as a fan author, is emotionally aligned "Force Powers". Like, you have to be feeling benevolent thoughts to heal people or that you have to be feeling raw hatred to conjure lightning. It's terrible imo. I get that it makes video game numbers more interesting and what not. But as a writer, it drives me nuts. Why can't I just be a wizard who casts lightning because I'm feeling giddy. Why can't I just be a wizard who casts burning hands because I want to lit the stove. Why can't I be a wizard who casts healing on my own wound while I'm feeling frustrated and tired. But nah. I have to be feeling "super evil" to conjure "the ultimate spell of evil blackness!" If I'm a Jedi, I have to feeling "super empathy" to conjure "the ultimate spell of love and righteousness!". Oh, and how come both ultimate spells are just PvP Spiritbomb Attacks anyway? Bleh.
If there was one thing I could erase from The Force forever. It would be: the emotional alignment of magic.
Jsc
- The force can be used like that though. How your talking about.
Problem is as a writer. How are you going to connect your character to "The Force" if you are not using feelings and the very thing that is common amongst the rest of the star wars universe. Almost every species feel in some capacity. Emotionally. If you remove that, you certainly can do so, You also make it harder to relate to the character in a way.
A counter to this view would be AMCO
, who believed the Force had no will and was just a tool. Any “will” it seemed to have was just an amalgamation of the wills and desires of living beings that were part of the Force.
