Chiss/Dark Jedi - Discussion

[Mirien Valdier]

*Staff voice on* Okay, it's been brought up. It needs to be discussed here. Not in public if we are going to argue let it be here. Or in Private PM's*Staff Off*



If It was okay for OP to merge and just do force registration, there is no reason why we can't have the same for the Chiss as a sub-faction. Their own training and ways, ect. Doesn't mean Inquisition won't be looking for them but I'm not opposed. I smell stories!



I see no reason why not. As long as they adhere to our rules, follow the guidelines, don't be sith brats, I don't see a reason why we can't have the Chiss have their own force users. As long as I don't have to manage another force group.


Thoughts? Opinions?

It gets snippy in here, I'll switch to Coryth and manage it. All staff like, so don't make me.

 

[Akio Kahoshi]

I was under a mistaken impression, if Mirien has no issue with this then I have no issue.

There are only two comments I have.

1. It should be public and force users are "registered."
2. Any religious aspect is separated from public authority. No Jedi Generals, or Jedi mediation powers.

I only say these because I truly feel that AE is supposed to be a little different from the other factions. We hate the Sith Empire because its controlled by Sith. Those two points would support the idea that force users are not considered to be better than neutrals as far as most people in the nation are concerned.

 

[Juno Wren]

1. There'll be a registry, but that registry is for the head of the academy's eyes only. Atrisian's hate Force-adepts. I see no reason why the head of the Academy -- me -- would make such information available to the Empire.

2. Can't really enforce that. If individual Force-adepts deify the Force, that's simply their individual perspective. The whole point of the Academy is to train 'Dark Jedi Generals', and to use 'Battle Meditation' to coordinate efforts in naval warfare to create the ultimate space-faring fighting force. The Force is an extremely apt and easily repurposed weapon -- it'd be a waste not to use it as such.

The AE and the CA are two separate entities - the Ascendancy isn't and wasn't influenced by the AE's propaganda against Force-adepts. The Atrisians can have their beliefs and opinions -- the Ascendancy can have theirs. Our goals are the same. Expand territory and influence while maintaining the integrity of our borders. This Academy will only help in that regard.

 

[Antera]

I, for one, welcome our new dark jedi battle meditation overlords, and all the internal strife and intrigue it will inevitably cause ICly with the Inquisition.

Seriously, not being sarcastic here. I smell soooo many opportunities for awesome stories with both force traditions having a back and forth behind the scenes of AE and CA's combined operations.

It also drives a nice little cultural/political wedge between the factions, keeping them distinct enough, and just distrustful enough, that it makes sense the CA didn't just join up wholesale after everything that's happened to the Chiss in our faction story so far.

 

[Moira Skaldi]

The Ascendancy is an autonomous entity, yes, but it was liberated from the Klaxxi hordes by Imperial forces. Personally I welcome the chance for intrigue and it is reasonable that the Chiss would strive to maintain some of their autonomy - Chiss naval forces participated in the conquest after all and so they would want a piece of the cake. I can certainly see the Inquisition trying to infiltrate any Chiss force academy to maintain watch. It has the potential for many interesting storylines.

However, nonetheless the Ascendancy is not a sovereign state but part of the Empire, ultimately both subordinate to the authority of the Emperor. A historical analogy might be the Dual Monarchy of Austria-Hungary, minus all the Hapsburg incompetence.

Ergo Force Registration and this information should be available to the Imperial regime, that is in the final analysis the Inquisition. If OP had merged (alas, that did not happen, but I shan't go on about that because I'd just get snippy and nonconstructive) then I would have expected the Inquisition/IIB to know which force-users serve in Omega Pyre/ODF. Give them breathing space to operate and maintain their traditions and beliefs, let them use their powers in a productive manner, but watch them.


Key difference between AE and other factions is that here force-users serve the state rather than a 'force religion' or cult. Well, to an extent that was the case in OP, since there was no 'Omega Order' and forcers were a regular part of the military, but there was no umbrella organisation to control them or even a central force academy. Needless to say force adepts can have their personal and ideological views of the force. If they believe a deity gives them their powers or they deify the force, then by all means, that is a private matter and their right. Only their orders come from the secular chain of command.

 

[Akio Kahoshi]

Moira hit my feelings right on the head. All I'm asking is that Garec follow his nations laws, and we go from there.

 

[Juno Wren]

As far as Garec knows, there is no such thing as the Inquisition. What he does know is that Atrisians do not abide force users, and that there is an ingrained stigma against them, born from years upon years -- literal centuries -- of propaganda and socialization.

Analogy: Several centuries have passed since the nazi's won WWII and you're now asking the secretly jewish general whose home has recently been absorbed by the german empire to confess to the fuhrer that one, he's jewish, and two, he's starting a school for jews to serve in his army.

Now maybe Akio isn't so hateful of Force users as the men who preceded him, but Garec doesn't know that. Maybe, if he comes to trust the emperor, truly trust him, he might come clean. But now? No way.

National law notwithstanding, you're asking Garec to be stupid at worst, and shortsighted at best. That's all I'm seeing.

 

[Akio Kahoshi]

I'm asking him to be loyal to his country, as a good chiss or Imperial would be. If Garec does this, and he gets caught (and what are the chances of him NOT being found out if he's using this massive force ability in battle?), he and every one of his followers (once he was discovered he had followers) would be hunted down and killed as traitors. That would simply be the law. Where if they simply registered, no such occurrences would happen.

IC actions reap IC results, and while IC drama can be fun I think it would much sooner become OOC drama. Simply following the laws prevents all of that, while still leaving room for friction involving the Inquisition.

 

[Mirien Valdier]

Moira hit it nicely on the head, better than I could have put it. But yeah. End of the day you go for the story but realize the course of actions you want and like for this will leave harsh consequences.


Hell Cara, for example in the fleet battles, her ship wiring someone used substandard wiring, a cost saving measure. And it nearly cost thousands of lives. So .. this is not someone getting fired, it's someone getting executed. It's how the empire behaves. It's harsh, it's cruel. It's the Empire.


IC Consequences would be harsh. It would be wise, to speak with the Emperor, get to know him and explain. Because otherwise, bad things will happen, far worse than just Inquisition coming out to play and all.

Do not get me wrong, I like the idea. I'm fine with it. However, Chiss are merged under AE. They do have to abide by the laws and hell maybe the Emperor goes to the Prince and explains a few things on force users without revealing Inquisition, and explains that force users need to register.

 

[Juno Wren]

1. The Empire doesn't even follow Imperial Law. If it did, the Inquisition would be public knowledge. But it's not, is it? It's super secret -- super, super secret. Add in about seven more secrets; Treadstone and Blackbriar can't begin to compare. Be a good, loyal Atrisian Chiss? You've read Garec's bio, haven't you? There'll have to be some sort of impetus for that, because that isn't who Garec is. He's a patriot, he's irascible, he's ambitious, and he's a bit racist, and I made him that way for a reason.

So he can grow.

1a. You're asking me to be a good, loyal, law abiding idiot and shoot myself in the foot because the law says I should shoot myself in the foot. Where dey do dat at?

2. Who's going to catch him using Battle Meditation? The Inquisition? That secret order of Imperial Force-adepts that he knows nothing about? Of course he wouldn't think he'd be caught. It's not even a consideration -- as far as he knows, there's no one to catch him. Battle Meditation isn't a flashy force power you can see in use; it's mind control on a massive scale. The only way the Inquisition would find out is if one of their people was one, nearby, and two, able to discern the source of the power.

3. Lol, that makes a lot of sense, hunting down and killing your only Admiral worth his salt -- the Admiral who can (will be able to) turn hundreds of different minds to one, singular purpose, the Admiral expanding your power, influence, and borders -- because of something so trivial as law. I refer to number 1. You're the Emperor, not the President -- if Garec and his people are hunted down, it won't be because of law, but because you, the law-maker, chose too do so. And that's fine with me; I welcome any and all challenges.

4. I would like to point out, again, that Garec has NO IC reason to trust the Emperor with his plans. None. Zero. I point you back to the Nazi analogy. Give him a reason to trust the Emperor; not just obey him, but trust him, and you'll have your registry. Otherwise? Thumbs down across the board.

5. Your demands aren't unreasonable, and completely understandable, but as pointed out above, Garec has no IC reason to do anything that you're asking. There'll be no OOC drama on this end. I can keep the two separate, trust me.

6. We don't own Klasse Ephemora yet. This could very well serve as a Dominion for the planet. A little celebration, a little r&r, and some intense talks between the Emperor, his Chiss Jun, and his Chiss Admiral. Otherwise, as I iterated in the aforementioned #4, thumbs down across the board.

 

[Mirien Valdier]

Inquisitious
This is a direct quote from wookiepedia.

" The Inquisitorius was a secret division of Imperial Intelligence consisting of dark side Force-sensitive agents known as Inquisitors (sometimes also as Inquisitioners), or "truth officers". "

First line in the Wookiepedia. Flat out states that. THAT is why I stated it as secret, and have done my best to keep it secret. We ARE following imperial law. Exactly like the old way. I set this up to be as close to the orignal with more flair to it and a few things changed/added that I wanted to make it more flexible and offer more than an extreme niche.

And by the way, I did not state kill. Hunted, if he's discovered yes. Caught possibly, tortured, yep. Because my book, torture and being held captive for long term is worse than death. You would bring the Emperor's wrath down on you for not letting him know. Which, that is a wee little problem.

And one more thing cause I'm a little irked. I'm trying to be flexible with you. Willing to allow this with a few simple exceptions. I wrote the Inquisition here. I wrote it. I decided what was law, as we get to do that here on the board. But I STILL stuck to cannon for the most part. I don't make you guys be in the IIB like wookie states they were. Reasons for that is to allow for anyone to come in be a force user, be known, but controlled so we don't have massive sithy crap happen without serious consequences to those actions. All while giving the freedom to be the character you want to be.


Want to do battle med, fine. I'm okay with that. That is fine. Want to do all the admiral stuff, fine. Force stuff, fine. But force registration I will not budge on. You don't have to be part of the Inquisition. Don't have to go there, but it does have to be known that you are a force user.


Edit: When the Chiss merged easily could have asked for force user registration to be part of their joining. We can even go back, past rp it, so it's there and you know about it. Hell we can make Inquisition members be on the force registry or whatever if that's what it takes, while still keeping what they do secret.

 

[Moira Skaldi]

Imperial law is what the rulers decide it to be. It is a manifestation of the Imperial will, in other words theirs.
One might add that many centuries have passed since the old Empire. The current Atrisian incarnation is a merger of old Imperial traditions with those the native ones of Atrisia. As has been said, the old Inquisition was secret, so is the current one (even Moira does not know about it - well as of Csilla she knows that Atrisia has force-users working for it - and she's in the business of knowing things).

Moreover, the onus of proving he can be trusted does not lie on the Emperor. He is the ruler, after all, and his powers are not constrained, his will is the law. It is on Garec to make the Emperor trust him and accept such a departure from standard Atrisian practice, hence the force registry. After all, if it comes to conflict it's Garec and his fleet, should they follow him, vs. the forces of an entire nation, which just liberated Csilla from the Klaxxi hordes and has been trained for total war. A significant disparity of forces to say the least.

 

[Juno Wren]

I would like to point out, again, that Garec has NO IC reason to trust the Emperor with his plans.

Your demands aren't unreasonable, and completely understandable, but as pointed out above, Garec has no IC reason to do anything that you're asking.

We don't own Klasse Ephemora yet. [this entire issue] could very well serve as a Dominion for the planet. A little celebration, a little r&r, and some intense talks between the Emperor, his Chiss Jun, and his Chiss Admiral.

Maybe I should've worded that differently. I understand why the Inquisition is secret. I wasn't challenging its existence or downing it in anyway -- just stating a fact. The Inquisition is secret, and it exists. It, and all of Palpatine's other force groups; the Hands, the Prophets, and whatever else, were, technically, against Imperial Law. That they existed means there's a precedent for Emperors ignoring or reinterpreting laws for their own gain -- that's all I was saying. I am also saying that Garec does not know this precedent exists. I am saying, in so many words, RP it out. That's all. Do you take blood samples or something when people become Atrisian citizens? There's how you know he's force sensitive. Is he subsequently thrown in a pit for being a force adept, or is he invited to sit down for tea with the Emperor to discuss the 'issue'? There's the trust.

You're reading a lot of words that I write and focusing on the wrong ones. Let's just RP.

 

[Mirien Valdier]

Then don't register. But any chiss force users who don't sign up and are discovered will face consequences. Is what I'm saying. Not budging on that. Force users sense other force users, life forms, ect. Force sensitives being stronger and more easily felt. Precedent is in the books, the shows and so on. So unless you are actively hiding all the time, some point you'll be discovered. So you'll have to deal with the IC conquences of such actions.


Like I said, there could even be a registry for Atrisia, so the precedent IS there. So you'll know .. Oh .. I might want to do that so I don't get tossed in jail. Completely missed my point and meaning on that. Like I said trying to be flexible. Because I want AE to grow, but gotta work within the boundaries that are set. And I'm willing to make changes to accommodate. I'm not saying no ... if you noticed. Just saying, work with me for the star's sake.

Put IC aside, cause that is the issue. You want a force group for the chiss without the Inquisition. I'll give you that, so long as they register. You want precedent for it, I'll change the AE side to match, without giving away Inquisition. I can bend, but only so far before Inquisition and all I've worked for, for the last two years is moot.

 

[Juno Wren]

Good lord, once again, I've been misinterpreted. The only issue is you still aren't focusing on my issue, and IC is the issue. I'm not asking you to change the Inquisition. I don't want you to change the Inquisition. At the end of the day, and the beginning of the day, the Inquisition has nothing to do with what I'm saying because IC, Garec doesn't know it exists. I only mentioned the Inquisition to counter Akio's statement about "hunting and killing Garec's people for breaking Imperial law."

And just for the record, hiding your presence in the Force isn't hard. Leia did it her entire life, without Jedi training. At one point, all Jedi knew how to hide their presence in the Force. Sith also know how to hide themselves in the Force. It is conceivable and possible that one could 'hide all the time'. It's been done.

But still, that's beside the point. My point is:

I am saying, in so many words, RP it out. That's all. Do you take blood samples or something when people become Atrisian citizens? There's how you know he (Garec) is force sensitive. Is he subsequently thrown in a pit for being a force adept, or is he invited to sit down for tea with the Emperor to discuss the 'issue'? There's the trust.

You're reading a lot of words that I write and focusing on the wrong ones. Let's just RP.

I'll break it down even further:

Thread Name: "Emperor Discovers his Admiral is Force Sensitive"​

Garec: You wanted to see me, sir?
Akio: Yes. According to your bloodwork, you are a force-adept.
Garec is nervous because being force sensitive is against imperial law, and he's outnumbered by guards.
Akio: You have nothing to fear. Not yet. Please, have a seat, drink some tea.
Garec sits and drinks some tea.
Akio: I don't trust force-adepts based off principle, but I realize the force can be used as a weapon.
Garec: Yes it can, sir. It can do many things.
Akio: What are your plans, Garec? You strike me as an ambitious man.
Garec is nervous again. Emperors guards are all menacing looking.
Garec: I want to see my people returned to glory.
Akio: Our people. The Chiss Ascendancy is a part of the Empire now.
Garec cedes the point with a nod.
Akio: What do you mean to do with your... abilities?
Garec: Whatever I can to help my -- our, people. The force can do unbelievable things... and I think that there may be more like me; more force-adepts.
It goes unsaid that he wants to collect them -- Akio can read between the lines.
Akio nods.
Akio: I'm willing to allow you to gather such people, and shape them into a weapon of the Empire, so long as you abide by these rules.
Garec nods and drinks more tea. The tea is really good.
Akio lists Rules.
Akio: Protect and defend the Integrity of Atrisian Space.
Garec: Done.
Akio: Register any and all force-adepts.
Garec: Done.
Akio: Seize power, and glory, in the name of the Empire.
Garec: Done.
The covenant is sealed with a handshake.
Akio: Good. Now, as Emperor, I have access to the baddest bishes in the whole sector. Sit back. Enjoy the show.
Akio claps hands and lots of hot dancers dance around naked. Problem is solved. All is well. Garec trusts his Emperor. Emperor has list of fore-adepts.
Garec leaves later.
Akio: send for Rebecca Novar.
Rebecca arrives.
Akio: The Chiss pilot in the Inquisition, what's her name? Somerie?
Rebecca (Mirien): Somarae.
Akio: I have a mission for her. I need her to infiltrate Garec's forces, gain his trust, and track his every move. I want to know everything he does.
Rebecca: Of course, Emperor sir.
Fades to black. The end.

See how easy that was?