Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos

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Force Dead and the Yuuzhan Vong

I want to preface this with the reminder that this is a discussion, there are no decisions made yet so please don't take this being posted here as a notice that any changes are being made.




Force Dead technology, both organic and inorganic, have been made use of ad nauseam to perhaps the same degree that Ysalamir have been used in invasions. These technologies provide near-immunity to the force, beyond force lightning and some forms of Sith alchemy/magic, as well as the primary function of these individual technologies - such as Vonduun Crab Armor, which provides blaster, lightsaber, and force protection for Yuuzhan Vong.

Generally this would be okay, because the people who would normally have used these in canon were creatures that were unable to use the force and had created these things as force dead because of their lifestyle. Originating as extragalactic biotechnology, Yuuzhan Vong weapons, armor, and so on are force dead for the same reason the Yuuzhan Vong are, which is not to take advantage of force users - not in-character/universe at least. It made sense for the people who were unable to use the force and unable to be touched by it to also wear living creatures that also had the same issues, because of their origins. Putting these into the hands of Sith Lords, however, causes quite a few issues in balance.

In canon we have people like Darth Krayt who wear these, but their Vonduun crab armor seem to be effected by the force in the same capacity as normal armor would, though I believe they retained their blaster and lightsaber resistances. On chaos, however, Yuuzhan Vong armor, biots, etc, have been fully equipped with force dead everything simply because they are Yuuzhan Vong, even eight hundred years post-invasion. They are used by Sith Lords who retain their use of the force because of the loophole that the armor they wear and the weapons they use, and the equipment for that matter, do not act like a Ysalamir in that there is no bubble of no-force, simply a "wall" that the force cannot actively be influenced through, because of the armor being unable to be touched by the force. This means exposed body portions allow use of the force, even if it is the head or just the hands or fingers.

Because this is all canon "technology"/biotechnology, force dead equipment and weaponry is being passed through the factory with the bare minimum restrictions of only requiring a development thread when either substantially deviating from canon or otherwise completely imbalanced. Much like with Ysalamirs, these cause issues in various roleplay scenarios, i.e; invasions, skirmishes, etc, and there have been recent public complaints following the rumor that Ysalamirs were being banned (which they most certainly are not) about Yuuzhan Vong technology specifically.

To get to the point, it is clear that the majority of force dead technology have been used by the Yuuzhan Vong because it is practically their slogan, but there is other technology or methods of achieving a force dead item, living or otherwise, which could bypass a restriction solely on Yuuzhan Vong materials, and I honestly think that Yuuzhan Vong equipment that is not force dead and isn't outrageous - basically as we judge them now - shouldn't be restricted like force dead stuff. So I propose a restriction on force dead materials, living or otherwise, that go through the factory. I can provide suggestions for a challenge as necessary, but I'd like to arrive at a decision on whether it should or should not be first and foremost.

[member="Spencer Jacobs"] [member="Cira"] [member="Raziel"] [member="Draco Vereen"] [member="Sanya Val Lerium"] [member="Netherworld"] [member="Snowflake"] @ Anyone Else
 

Sanya Val Lerium

Neutral, Queen of Her people, Neko
I back this 1000% been a person on the other side of YV and force dead tech it's abused and make people think they can borderline God mode. Something needs to be done to balance this issue and it needs to be hard to obtain in my opinion.
 

Netherworld

Well-Known Member
I won't try to pretend there isn't a bit of bias in me on this one, but how has the "force dead" aspect of anything been abused?

I know that a lot of people have issues and reservations about Yuuzhan Vong tech for reasons not entirely clear to me, but I'd think it's other aspects that people usually find "OP".

Can someone give me a few examples of "force dead" abuse, YV or otherwise? Just so I can get a better grasp of the situation.


At any rate, I think a nice mission that challenges the writer (like with Ysalamiri) would be a cool addition and show that the person is willing to put effort into their force dead whatever.
 
Netherworld said:
but how has the "force dead" aspect of anything been abused?

Braith Achlys said:
In canon we have people like Darth Krayt who wear these, but their Vonduun crab armor seem to be effected by the force in the same capacity as normal armor would, though I believe they retained their blaster and lightsaber resistances. On chaos, however, Yuuzhan Vong armor, biots, etc, have been fully equipped with force dead everything simply because they are Yuuzhan Vong, even eight hundred years post-invasion. They are used by Sith Lords who retain their use of the force because of the loophole that the armor they wear and the weapons they use, and the equipment for that matter, do not act like a Ysalamir in that there is no bubble of no-force, simply a "wall" that the force cannot actively be influenced through, because of the armor being unable to be touched by the force. This means exposed body portions allow use of the force, even if it is the head or just the hands or fingers.
In EU canon, these did not provide the same force-dead qualities that the actual Yuuzhan Vong were renown for, during the Yuuzhan Vong war, while Krayt's One Sith was around about one hundred years after the Extragalactic Invasion. Currently they are utilized in a manner where the force is being written as unable to be applied because of the use of these armors, weapons, and so on.

Full immunity from the force in every single other scenario beyond Yuuzhan Vong technology, such as Terentatek treated with Sith Alchemy, has been requested development threads for because of the lack of a concrete canon basis. Because this provides an easy alternative to writing a development thread for immunity to the force (which Ysalamir do) is the reason this is being proposed.

This also provides a far greater range of protection than force resistant equipment, such as alchemized terentatek, and a greater versatility to Ysalamir.

Where a force user wielding a Ysalamir cannot use the force, a force user wielding force dead armor can.

The exact same issues with Ysalamir is present here, if not ten-fold.
 

Netherworld

Well-Known Member
[member="Braith Achlys"]

Alrighty, point made. Thank you for the explanation. :)

As said:


Netherworld said:
At any rate, I think a nice mission that challenges the writer (like with Ysalamiri) would be a cool addition and show that the person is willing to put effort into their force dead whatever.
 
Braith Achlys said:
simply a "wall" that the force cannot actively be influenced through, because of the armor being unable to be touched by the force. This means exposed body portions allow use of the force, even if it is the head or just the hands or fingers.
I have not seen anyone roleplay Vonduun Skerr Kyrric in this manner.

People within the crab armour, are still vulnerable to the Force. You can still sense someone with the armour and affect them.
 

Netherworld

Well-Known Member
Raziel said:
I have not seen anyone roleplay Vonduun Skerr Kyrric in this manner.
I actually RP Vrag like that. It's part of the reason why the only manner in which she applies the Force is TK 90% of the time.

And yes, the person within the armor is still capable of being affected, though I'd wager it takes more focus than normal, since one has to "go through" a "wall" of something that the Force cannot touch.
I suppose much of it comes down to an individual's understanding on how the Force and "Force Dead" things interact, which is likely whence most of the issues with this matter stem from in the first place.


As for the challenge, I'd actually have it be something related to the nature of the thing we're restricting. I.e., if it's a Force user, they have to write out a situation where they are abruptly severed from the Force in a situation where they would absolutely need it (like a duel or some such). For "force dead" subbers like say a Yuuzhan Vong, and for those who aren't Force-sensitive, I'd say have it be the reverse: they have to write out a situation where they suddenly gain use of the Force and the repercussions of such, whatever they may be.

Bottom line, I think we want these challenges to have a point to them; it's a roleplaying board, after all, and things should have a point beyond themselves, restrictions or not.
 
[member="Raziel"]
Literally half the people who use it write it that way. As I stated, it did not work that way in canon but has become the norm here.
 
In any case, as we seem to have some sort of a general direction that a challenge would be necessary to decide on this, here's a few ideas as transcribed from yesterday's skype chat:
  • Complete a duel, with a minimum of ten posts, in which your sense of sight, sound, and use of the force are deprived.
  • Write a ten post thread wherein your character gains, or loses, connection to the force in a hostile situation and then re-obtains their connection to the force, or lack thereof, following the escape from this hostile situation. Each post must be written in the perspective of "second person". (Or first if we think that is too difficult)
[member="Netherworld"] [member="Raziel"] [member="Cira"] [member="Sanya Val Lerium"] [member="Spencer Jacobs"] [member="Draco Vereen"]
 
Honestly, this is what I'm seeing. "Restrict this and that because its not fair to FUs" When most FUs magically make their own force powers or manipulate it (without anyone saying 'you have to dev this') I understand that it evens the playing field and if people have issues with things they can always report it. The only argument I'm seeing is that its not fair to force users and people are treating vong and force dead things as if they're OP. To me it evens out the playing field and makes the FUs have to actually think when they're fighting.

[member="Raziel"] [member="Braith Achlys"] [member="Netherworld"] [member="Sanya Val Lerium"]
 
[member="Spencer Jacobs"]
The reason I brought it up was because force users made use of the to stand over NFU and FUs alike. Force users wearing this could still use the force while remaining relatively untouched by many force abilities. In the instance of Yuuzhan Vong it provides high durability armor, such as Vonduun crab armor, which reflects blasters, fully resists light sabers, and withstands slugthrower rounds.

This may or may not make a difference, but this was more about keeping FUs from becoming more OP than they potentially already are without this armor.
 
[member="Spencer Jacobs"]
The way it has been used on the site and in canon, relatively speaking the answer to that is no.

I'm on my phone so explaining this is a little difficult, but basically when someone wears, lets say Vonduun crab armor, it stops the force from being used through it, so telekinesis aimed at that person's chest will do almost nothing, while leaving exposed fingers or hands still provide a way for that person to use the force. You can relate this to a stream of running water as the force, and a wall as the force dead material. The water (force) will never go over or around the wall, but leaving holes will allow that stream to be directed through.

Really bad analogy, I know, but the general gist is that the way people use the force still allows for it to be used unless fully covered by force dead material.
 
[member="Cira"]

I think she tried to say that it is seemingly an option if you leave a hole in your armor where your hands are free you get to use the force in force dead armor.

... I think? That was my interpretation of the analogy.

/Kanagobacktonotbeingafactoryjudge
 
[member="Braith Achlys"] I can see why this is dumb. Alright. throw me some ideas on the extent of the restriction not something that goes "lol all vong stuff" because honestly not all vong/force dead stuff is terrible and op
 

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